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Old 06-25-2022, 12:12 PM   #41
bumpdraft
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Default Re: 1998 SC2, MagnaFlow Exhaust Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinVarnes View Post
Who did you buy it from? This is the guy I bought mine from: https://www.ebay.com/usr/jwim_llc/

He doesn't have any other 23450's listed, but maybe worth asking.

The part I got looks like the CAD model picture that everybody has. Maybe check with another seller or vendor?

I got the downtubes for my T-Bird from this place: https://www.hottexhaust.com/magnaflo...ard-grade-epa/

They had the best price I could find anywhere after I found a 20% discount code and they seem pretty legit. Might be worth checking with them although I'm pretty sure the downtubes for my T-Bird were drop shipped from Magnaflow.

Maybe I’m rushing into this “MagnaFlow” thing too suddenly, I've only been at it for two years!

Trying one more time, I bought from HottExhaust.
I think the problem occurred when HottExhaust had to contact MannaFlow for a part.

Hot Exhaust has 4 different CAD renderings, so the customer knows exactly what he or she is ordering.

The 23450 arrived today and it is not even close, yet it is different from the last incorrect 23450 that MagnaFlow sent to me.
For comparison, I have a MF pipe, an O.E. Pipe and a Brand-X pipe.
https://imgur.com/a/EXGAle3

It could be a simple explanation, like “ this is not the real Amazing Internet, and you are not communicating with real people
...although, the (not stainless) Brand-X pipe is correct, proving that, at one time, I was communicating with real people on the real Amazing Internet.

Note that Michigan doesn’t even do emission testing, and I was only purchasing a working Catalytic converter to improve my social credit score! I can just as easily use the perfectly good hollowed-out OE Cat from down South and put the money towards food!

Last edited by bumpdraft; 06-25-2022 at 12:17 PM.
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Old 06-29-2022, 10:14 PM   #42
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Default Re: 1998 SC2, MagnaFlow Exhaust Question

Because someone might want to buy a MF for their SC2...

First, HottExhaust has gone silent. I will follow-up.

Second, magnaflow.com only lists available engines as “L4”. Nothing about L24 or LLO. That could be significant. Maybe the exhaust I have was made for an SC1, even though MF implies it is for an SC2.

magnaflow.com today:
https://imgur.com/a/JIvJlcN

Maybe I will have to buy some builder parts and fabricate the correct fit?
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Old 06-29-2022, 10:54 PM   #43
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Default Re: 1998 SC2, MagnaFlow Exhaust Question

I think L4 is just generic for inline four cylinder engine. I don't think they are using it as an engine code. They do show it only fitting the SX2 cars so I think that says that they do recognize the difference between the SX1 and SX2. I'm not sure why you are having such rotten luck with this. That said, my downpipe could be way out in left field too. I've only looked at it laying on the ground. The exhaust on that car just isn't a high priority to me right now so I probably won't know for a while if it fits properly.

I don't know who made that Brand X pipe with the crinkle bends. All of the Magnaflow stuff I have received has been stainless with mandrel bends.

I didn't have any issues with Hottexhaust, but then again the downpipes they sent me for my T-Bird were what I was expecting. Did the pipe you got from them come in a Magnaflow box?
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Old 06-30-2022, 07:39 AM   #44
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Default Re: 1998 SC2, MagnaFlow Exhaust Question

Yes, it is definitely a real MagnaFlow box. https://imgur.com/a/85SbgXQ

Even though the information on HottExhaust.com leads me to believe I am ordering a pipe to fit my SC2, with 1997 federal emissions, I think they sold me a pipe that attaches to a pre-Cat.
I believe Hot Exhaust call a pre-Cat an an “upstream” Cat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fetchitfido View Post
While I agree the aftermarket not knowing what/how their parts fit the S-Series is stupid...GM/Saturn changed it quite often.

Applies to DOHC's, SOHC's likely have similar changes:
  • Manifolds:
    • 4-2 header '91-'92
    • Fed spec manifold '93-'98
    • Cali spec manifold '96-'98
    • Fed spec manifold '99-'00 (no air pump)
    • Cali spec manifold '99-'02 (air pump)
  • Downpipes
    • 2-1 downpipe '91-'92
    • Fed spec downpipe '93-'95
    • Fed spec downpipe '96-'98
    • Cali spec downpipe '96-'98
    • Fed spec downpipe '99-'00
    • Cali spec downpipe '99-'02

Cat-back:
I believe emissions level has no impact, though the one for the 4-2-1 system has a giant square 4-bolt flange instead of the 2 or 3 bolt flange used on '93+.


It’s starting to look like I will need to weld-up a fixture, using scrap metal and my spare O.E. 21013080, so that I can have someone weld the correct pieces to the MF 23450...so that it fits the exhaust manifold on my DOHC.

magnaflow.com offers some builder parts, but not the ones I need.

Do you know if someone sells builder parts? Meaning, a 2” inlet flange.
I will have to make the fixture before I can determine how hideous the misalignment of the 23450 is.

Last edited by bumpdraft; 06-30-2022 at 07:48 AM.
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Old 06-30-2022, 08:38 AM   #45
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Default Re: 1998 SC2, MagnaFlow Exhaust Question

Quote:
Do you know if someone sells builder parts? Meaning, a 2” inlet flange.
I made tooling to make my own.


Look on my '98 SC2 thread.
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Old 06-30-2022, 12:16 PM   #46
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Default Re: 1998 SC2, MagnaFlow Exhaust Question

bumpdraft, check your PMs.
...
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'99 SL2, 5SP bought new
Rebuilt at 204,067 September 2017
Engine, subframe, diff pin mod, brake lines, headliner, alternator, and so on!
'98 SC2, 5SP bought 2018
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Old 07-02-2022, 03:54 PM   #47
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Default Re: 1998 SC2, MagnaFlow Exhaust Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waiex191 View Post
bumpdraft, check your PMs.
Done, yesterday
Your image shows the outlet flange. I need the part that attaches to the exhaust manifold on the engine. I will keep your info in mind. That can extend the life of the entire exhaust system!

This is my latest submittal to MagnaFlow, yesterday:
“Hello, I bought a 23450 from HottExhaust com. It does not fit. HottExhaust is unresponsive. My vehicle is a 1997 Saturn SC2 with NF2 emissions system = FEDERAL, TIER 1. The exhaust manifold on my SC2 does not have a PreCat. The exhaust manifold part number, per wholesalegmpartsonline, is 21006956 (model years 1995-1998). Put another way, there is only one catalytic converter in the entire exhaust system. There is not a catalytic converter integral with the exhaust manifold. The O.E. Part number of the exhaust/catalytic converter assembly is 21013080.
On magnaflow’s website, the drawing of 23450 shows the “point” of the flange pointing forward. The 23450 that I received has the point of the flange facing rearward. If this is as close as I can get, does Magnaflow offer builder parts for sale? I have a 21013080 and can use it to make a fixture to modify the 23450 to fit. I would need a flange and a length of 2” pipe. Thank you”

Note that the model year range of 21006956 is 1995-1998
Note that NF2 is on the spare tire cover in the trunk.
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Old 07-02-2022, 05:20 PM   #48
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Default Re: 1998 SC2, MagnaFlow Exhaust Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by bumpdraft View Post
Your image shows the outlet flange. I need the part that attaches to the exhaust manifold on the engine.
They are the same. From my '99 thread, here is the old manifold flange welded onto the resonator pipe and bolted to the cat flange.


Also the gasket between my '98 flanges is a manifold exhaust gasket from the FLAPS.

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...&postcount=414
...
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Rebuilt at 204,067 September 2017
Engine, subframe, diff pin mod, brake lines, headliner, alternator, and so on!
'98 SC2, 5SP bought 2018
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Old 07-03-2022, 12:53 PM   #49
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Default Re: 1998 SC2, MagnaFlow Exhaust Question

Waiex191,
sorry to be so dense. What you did is what I will do to extend the life of the resonator mid-pipe.
For the MagnaFlow, I would like to keep the whole thing stainless steel. It seems reasonable that MagnaFlow would have flanges and pieces of 2” pipe laying around. I am willing to buy them.
The version of the 23450 that I have is too short.
My uneducated eyes lead me to believe that the 23450 that I have, sitting new in the box, is either a pipe made for a SOHC, made for a Pre-Cat, or made for a third generation DOHC. The part number etched on the 23450 pipe seems to be an error. Not a big deal if MagnaFlow can sell me some parts to make it work.
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Old 07-03-2022, 04:54 PM   #50
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Default Re: 1998 SC2, MagnaFlow Exhaust Question

If you can buy what you need, that is awesome. If you can't:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/28358192097...mis&media=COPY

Plus my nifty tooling= a stainless flange for fabrication.
...
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Rebuilt at 204,067 September 2017
Engine, subframe, diff pin mod, brake lines, headliner, alternator, and so on!
'98 SC2, 5SP bought 2018
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Old 08-02-2022, 08:38 AM   #51
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Default Re: 1998 SC2, MagnaFlow Exhaust Question

To wrap this up and clarify, perfectly, my journey vs. Kevin Varnes’ experience in post #24, where he was able to purchase the correct pipe, here are my final questions to tech support:

7-1-2022 Me to MagnaFlow by online form:

Hello, I bought a 23450 from HottExhaust com. It does not fit. HottExhaust is unresponsive. My vehicle is a 1997 Saturn SC2 with NF2 emissions system = FEDERAL, TIER 1. The exhaust manifold on my SC2 does not have a PreCat. The exhaust manifold part number, per wholesalegmpartsonline, is 21006956 (model years 1995-1998). Put another way, there is only one catalytic converter in the entire exhaust system. There is not a catalytic converter integral with the exhaust manifold. The O.E. Part number of the exhaust /catalytic converter assembly is 21013080. On magnaflow’s website, the drawing of 23450 shows the “point” of the flange pointing forward. The 23450 that I received has the point of the flange facing rearward. If this is as close as I can get, does Magnaflow offer builder parts for sale? I have a 21013080 and can use it to make a fixture to modify the 23450 to fit. I would need a flange and a length of 2” pipe. Thank you,
——————
MagnaFlow:
Good afternoon,

Thank you for choosing Magnaflow! I can see the photos but want to make sure we are on the same page. Can you please explain the issue you are facing so we may further assist? Thank you!
————————-

Me:

Hello,

It appears that the 23450 that I have in my possession can be made to fit my Saturn SC2 by adding 7-inches of 2-inch diameter pipe and a flange.

My two remaining questions are:

1) Can MagnaFlow sell me a 7-inch length of 2-inch stainless pipe and a stainless flange that I can use to make the 23450, that I currently have in my possession, fit my SC2?

2) Alternately, does MagnFlow sell a unit that would fit my ‘97 SC2 Duel OverHead Cam engine without modification? If so, could you send me a photograph of it?

Thank you,

————————-
MagnaFlow:

Good afternoon,

Thank you for choosing Magnaflow! Firstly, I cannot comment on the fitment of a system that was not designed for the specified vehicle because we have not tested it and therefore cannot confirm whether it will work for your vehicle or not. Secondly, we do not sell just the separate components from within our systems. The kits are pre-packaged as kits and we do not have a separate part numbers available for each section individually. We apologize for the inconvenience.
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