F 5 Connector replacement

[lisa1126]

Hi, so my 99 saturn sl2 (automatic) is suffering from the infamous F5 problem. I've located a replacement cabin fuse box and I am wondering if I need to change the connector on the end of the F5 wire or if I can just clean it and respring it.

[Signmaster]

I'd probably just clean it up and inspect it. The connectors are usually fairly tough, and unless it seems brittle when you respring it then it should probably be just fine.

Being you've dug enough to find the issue and causes, I'm sure you won't be putting too much load on it in the future regardless. I'm not a fan of the spade connectors, but they found their way into quite a few cars.


At least on the Saturn it's an internal connector. I just played with a Mazda 3 that uses them on the starter of all things. Cleaned up and resprung it once the starter tested good.

[lisa1126]

Thank you, I'll do that!

[Mister_Cee]

Signmaster,

It's not often (like never before?) I've seen Mazda3 and Saturn mentioned in the same post. How do the two compare?

[Mr_Infamous]

So I have this 100 watt converter that I've been using all year to charge my stuff. Last night, I started my 99 sl2 and it was running for like 2 minutes while I untangled the charger wires. I plugged the thing into the lighter socket and after about 5 seconds noticed that the red light hadn't turnt green like it normally does. Then, I smelled something burning and the car gracefully shut off. The door locks, seatbelt indicator, chime, and overhead light no longer function and turning the key does nothing except make the instrument panel lights dim slightly.

I found another old post on this with directions, but it might as well be written in Egyptian hieroglyphics because I have no idea what almost any of it means. The driver's side doesn't have the kick guard panel or whatever it's called, it never has, and I can see the back of the fuse box (or whatever the damn thing is called) and a brown soap bar sized box thing and another relay sticking to the back.

https://imgur.com/a/3vsgffm


Is that where my problem likely is? Oh yeah and another thing that I didn't see mentioned here or in the other post: my obd scanner isn't getting a connection either.

[Signmaster]

Originally Posted by Mr_Infamous

So I have this 100 watt converter that I've been using all year to charge my stuff. Last night, I started my 99 sl2 and it was running for like 2 minutes while I untangled the charger wires. I plugged the thing into the lighter socket and after about 5 seconds noticed that the red light hadn't turnt green like it normally does. Then, I smelled something burning and the car gracefully shut off. The door locks, seatbelt indicator, chime, and overhead light no longer function and turning the key does nothing except make the instrument panel lights dim slightly.

I found another old post on this with directions, but it might as well be written in Egyptian hieroglyphics because I have no idea what almost any of it means. The driver's side doesn't have the kick guard panel or whatever it's called, it never has, and I can see the back of the fuse box (or whatever the damn thing is called) and a brown soap bar sized box thing and another relay sticking to the back.

https://imgur.com/a/3vsgffm


Is that where my problem likely is? Oh yeah and another thing that I didn't see mentioned here or in the other post: my obd scanner isn't getting a connection either.

Slow down and do some searches to find the threads with photos. Once you find the right photos it will make more sense.

https://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sh....php?p=2090693

https://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sh...ghlight=power#

As for the OBD port, I'm not sure on the Saturn, but on later GM vehicles the same circuit powers the OBD port.

Originally Posted by Mister_Cee

Signmaster,

It's not often (like never before?) I've seen Mazda3 and Saturn mentioned in the same post. How do the two compare?

I saw this not long after you posted and forgot to respond. If I get some time maybe I'll post some comparison notes.

[Mr_Infamous]

Originally Posted by Signmaster

Slow down and do some searches to find the threads with photos. Once you find the right photos it will make more sense.

https://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sh....php?p=2090693

https://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sh...ghlight=power#

As for the OBD port, I'm not sure on the Saturn, but on later GM vehicles the same circuit powers the OBD port.





I saw this not long after you posted and forgot to respond. If I get some time maybe I'll post some comparison notes.

Thanks, I've been extremely ill until earlier today so I wouldn't have noticed until now anyway. By the way, before I forget again, in case this turns out to have been my problem, i wanted to add that in addition to the obd port not working, assuming my scanner didn't happen to coincidentally break - I don't have another car in which I can test it - the passenger mirror controls have no effects.

[Mr_Infamous]

https://imgur.com/a/igHL1Eh

Since I can't find a video of someone actually removing it, I have to ask what I'm supposed to do about that giant cluster of wires blocking my access to the 8mm bolt thingy. I took a screenshot of richpin's video showing how it looks much different than mine. Since nobody mentions how to get it out of the way without breaking anything, I'm wondering if its not actually supposed to look like it does.

[billr]

The wires are flexible. Move them out of the way to get to that screw. Getting to the screw holding the connector is the easiest part of this job. If it proves too challenging, then I suggest you take this to a professional.

[Mr_Infamous]

Originally Posted by billr

The wires are flexible. Move them out of the way to get to that screw. Getting to the screw holding the connector is the easiest part of this job. If it proves too challenging, then I suggest you take this to a professional.

The wires were most certainly not flexible, but that's probably a result of the cheap aftermarket electrical tape they're tightly wrapped in being literally petrified by nearly 20 years of east Texas climate cycles. Anyways, I just decided to use as much force as it took to get the bundle hooked back up where it's supposed to be, and nothing broke.


Once I had access, taking it off was straightforward and after a thorough cleaning, my car is running again! I'm a little worried that the fuel pump is on that circuit... but since the fuse box is in pretty good shape compared to some of the others I saw on F5 problem threads, I can probably fix it by simply doing a more thorough cleaning and tightening the connector... right?

https://imgur.com/a/ZFcv9Q4

[TomM96]

@ Infamous-

Assuming you were powering your 100W converter from the cigar lighter,
you May have cured the problem, for now.

-> Suggest Do Not power any accessories from the lighter socket, going forward.

If you read enough posts on the F-5 / A-2 issue, you will encounter
work arounds which involve the installation of new circuits in cabin powered by a spare macro fuse in UHJB. Do That - New fused circuit in cabin. Then you can power converter directly from new circuit via spare macro fuse.

As OldNuc commented, the OEM electrical harness is not well equiped for accessory loads.

[Mr_Infamous]

Originally Posted by TomM96

@ Infamous-

Assuming you were powering your 100W converter from the cigar lighter,
you May have cured the problem, for now.

-> Suggest Do Not power any accessories from the lighter socket, going forward.

If you read enough posts on the F-5 / A-2 issue, you will encounter
work arounds which involve the installation of new circuits in cabin powered by a spare macro fuse in UHJB. Do That - New fused circuit in cabin. Then you can power converter directly from new circuit via spare macro fuse.

As OldNuc commented, the OEM electrical harness is not well equiped for accessory loads.

Yeah, I'm never using the lighter socket again and already am planning on it doing that at the same time I fix the ac. Thanks for the advice!

[Signmaster]

Some of those wiring bundles get pretty stiff over time, but I'm glad you got it sorted out. It sounds like you may have gotten to it before major melting set in, which is a good thing.

Is your OBD port working again?

[TomM96]

@ Mr Infamous:
> I'm a little worried that the fuel pump is on that circuit...

I experienced issue that caused me to open the IP box with F-5 / A-2; in my case existing wiring/connector was AOK.
But I also was concerned about loads on the fuel pump circuit. My 'fix'
was renewing the FP relay with a new item from RockAuto... relay contacts
eventually burn/oxidize, causing increased resistance, and lower voltage
feeding the output/downstream circuit.