SaturnFans.com
saturnfans.com - classifieds - forums


Go Back   SaturnFans.com Forums > Models > Saturn S-Series > S-Series General

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-28-2013, 08:10 PM   #1
brokendown
Member
brokendown has a spectacular aura aboutbrokendown has a spectacular aura aboutbrokendown has a spectacular aura about
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 363

1999 SL
Default timing "belt".. or is it a chain? when replace?

I'm not clear enough on this point but i know all other cars in the modern era have timing belts they want you to replace every 60-100k. Noninterference engines just break down if it breaks, interference engines destroy themselves. I had in notes I took for my own use awhile ago that I believed the 99 saturn SOHC SL0 i had was noninterference and had a timing chain for the life of the engine, I don't remember where I got the info but maybe someone can tell me definitively. :P I read elsewhere that I may have been wrong on both parts.

I have 200k on the engine, is a timing belt or chain replacement something I need to get done ASAP or be worried about?
brokendown is offline   Reply With Quote
SaturnFans.com Sponsored Links
Old 11-28-2013, 08:14 PM   #2
billtag454
Junior Member
billtag454 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: new york
Posts: 25

1999 SL1
Default Re: timing "belt".. or is it a chain? when replace?

Definitely a chain. Should last the life of the engine.
billtag454 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2013, 08:15 PM   #3
anmasher
Senior Member
anmasher has a spectacular aura aboutanmasher has a spectacular aura aboutanmasher has a spectacular aura about
 
anmasher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Martinsville, IN
Posts: 1,557
 

1995 SC2
1996 SL2
Default Re: timing "belt".. or is it a chain? when replace?

Timing chain, and it makes significant noise long before total failure. Never supposed to need replacement but YMMV. It is an interference engine.
anmasher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2013, 09:12 PM   #4
SL19302
Master Member
SL19302 is a name known to allSL19302 is a name known to allSL19302 is a name known to allSL19302 is a name known to allSL19302 is a name known to allSL19302 is a name known to all
 
SL19302's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Drums, PA
Posts: 3,350

2000 SW2
2002 SL1
Default Re: timing "belt".. or is it a chain? when replace?

Quote:
Originally Posted by brokendown View Post
I'm not clear enough on this point but i know all other cars in the modern era have timing belts they want you to replace every 60-100k. Noninterference engines just break down if it breaks, interference engines destroy themselves. I had in notes I took for my own use awhile ago that I believed the 99 saturn SOHC SL0 i had was noninterference and had a timing chain for the life of the engine, I don't remember where I got the info but maybe someone can tell me definitively. :P I read elsewhere that I may have been wrong on both parts.

I have 200k on the engine, is a timing belt or chain replacement something I need to get done ASAP or be worried about?
Its a Chain driven engine, just make sure your engine oil stays CLEAN and FULL and your chain should last a long time, as stated if the chain starts having issues it will make alot of noise and warn you its in need of replacement.
...
2015 Subaru Forester Limited "Prinny"
2000 SW2 Still Running Strong- 160K Traded In
2002 SL1 Still has Its Training Wheels on at 88K Traded In


CHECK YOUR OIL!
SL19302 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2013, 06:23 AM   #5
700+SL2
Member
700+SL2 is on a distinguished road
 
700+SL2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: North of Boston
Posts: 194

1995 SL2
1993 SW2
Default Re: timing "belt".. or is it a chain? when replace?

Any desciption of the noise. I don't know the true mileage of mine and I've been a bit concerned about how noisy the engine is. I was thinking about the chain.
700+SL2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2013, 12:10 PM   #6
alordofchaos
Super Member
alordofchaos has much to be proud ofalordofchaos has much to be proud ofalordofchaos has much to be proud ofalordofchaos has much to be proud ofalordofchaos has much to be proud ofalordofchaos has much to be proud ofalordofchaos has much to be proud ofalordofchaos has much to be proud ofalordofchaos has much to be proud ofalordofchaos has much to be proud of
 
alordofchaos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Central MI
Posts: 13,320
 

2002 SC2
1998 SL2
Default Re: timing "belt".. or is it a chain? when replace?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SL19302 View Post
just make sure your engine oil stays CLEAN and FULL and your chain should last a long time,
Can't be emphasized enough. I try to check my oil at least once a week, and try to keep the oil a little above the FULL line - will add a few ounces at a time so that it never drops below the FULL line (owner's manual says 3/16" above or below the line is proper level)

There are many Saturns with over 500k miles on the original chain, but the owners stay on top of the oil level
Quote:
Originally Posted by 700+SL2
Any desciption of the noise. I don't know the true mileage of mine and I've been a bit concerned about how noisy the engine is. I was thinking about the chain.
There are several videos and MP3 links on this forum - here's a video by PaulClawson3 - listen for the clattering - increases with rpm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOoUJpq6dFI
...
I'm not worthy to grovel in the shadow of Signmaster's wisdom

11/2016 red 2002 5 spd SC2 151k DD
12/2008 eBay silver 1998 SL2 5 spd 102k, now 201k+ miles
alordofchaos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2013, 02:32 PM   #7
satlite440
Senior Member
satlite440 has much to be proud ofsatlite440 has much to be proud ofsatlite440 has much to be proud ofsatlite440 has much to be proud ofsatlite440 has much to be proud ofsatlite440 has much to be proud ofsatlite440 has much to be proud ofsatlite440 has much to be proud of
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: kent wa
Posts: 1,053

2001 SL2
Default Re: timing "belt".. or is it a chain? when replace?

as a dealer tec yes the chain is supposed to last the life of the engine..however all parts are mass produced and from the lowest bider..i have taken newer 2010 2.4L with 30k on them and found them streched beyond reuse...as a rule i would recomend 100-120k a chain replacement especialy if it is a man trans and the owner downshifts useing engine brakeing.. if you hear rattling from the cover area and your oil level is full.. there is 1 of 2 issues 1st is the chain tensoner failing to mecanicly lock and hold during engine shut down... 2nd the chain is streched.. there is a lot of load on the chain..imho after 120k you are gambling..
satlite440 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2013, 02:37 PM   #8
OldNuc
Super Member
OldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond repute
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Far Southwestern Iowa
Posts: 66,694
 

1998 SC2
Default Re: timing "belt".. or is it a chain? when replace?

Quote:
Originally Posted by satlite440 View Post
... especialy if it is a man trans and the owner downshifts useing engine brakeing...
This the key to chain life, if you do not use the engine for a brake then chain life will be sufficiently long that it will be the next owners problem. Along with that oil level must be maintained at the FULL mark and not allowed to run down to a quart low before additions.
OldNuc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2013, 06:59 PM   #9
anmasher
Senior Member
anmasher has a spectacular aura aboutanmasher has a spectacular aura aboutanmasher has a spectacular aura about
 
anmasher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Martinsville, IN
Posts: 1,557
 

1995 SC2
1996 SL2
Default Re: timing "belt".. or is it a chain? when replace?

How is engine braking going to hurt the chain? I stay in the current gear down to 1500 then shift to neutral and continue braking from there. Is that harmful?
anmasher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2013, 07:49 PM   #10
OldNuc
Super Member
OldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond repute
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Far Southwestern Iowa
Posts: 66,694
 

1998 SC2
Default Re: timing "belt".. or is it a chain? when replace?

No, what stresses the timing system is shifting from 5th @80mph into 4th and letting the clutch out on a closed throttle, or 3rd if you are exceptionally creative.
OldNuc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2013, 08:02 PM   #11
satlite440
Senior Member
satlite440 has much to be proud ofsatlite440 has much to be proud ofsatlite440 has much to be proud ofsatlite440 has much to be proud ofsatlite440 has much to be proud ofsatlite440 has much to be proud ofsatlite440 has much to be proud ofsatlite440 has much to be proud of
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: kent wa
Posts: 1,053

2001 SL2
Default Re: timing "belt".. or is it a chain? when replace?

notice i DID NOT say it would hurt the chain.. i said it will help strech the chain...way more than an automatic.. a mun trans is coupled directly throuth the cluch to the flywheel.. as you start from idle the crankshaft bogs abit when letting the cluch out..the cranck pulls the cams along for the ride..as you get up to cruse the load on the chain is some what reduced as it is the moter creating power to drive the chain.. now when you down shift flareing the rpms into the 3500 or more range as a certian someone she who will not be named or higher to slow down puts a lot of strain on the chain.. like the whole weight of the inertia of the vehical as you let the cluch out yes the trans absorbes some of the load by gearclash(clearence between the gears) you are still putting the weight and momentum of the car on the chain&crank and cam gears.. now a t-bellt is basicly a rubber band and can absorb some of this shock better.. a chain is not so springy also when you are climbing the power band the crank is being power driven by the pistons.. when gear breaking you are esentaly over-running the crankshaft and useing the compression in the cyclinders to slow you down...adding ring wear to chin wear... now.. wear is going to happen all thing mechanical have a lifespan and cyclinder wear and timming chain wear will ocure.. im just saying that the wear happens faster in a 5spd vs and automatic..you would never think to subject you auto trans to the downshifting you do in a 5spd...for rear of hurting the trans.. but nobody stops to think what it is doing to the timming chain

Last edited by satlite440; 12-01-2013 at 08:12 PM.
satlite440 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2013, 08:30 PM   #12
sallydriver
Senior Member
sallydriver is a name known to allsallydriver is a name known to allsallydriver is a name known to allsallydriver is a name known to allsallydriver is a name known to allsallydriver is a name known to all
 
sallydriver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Northern Utah
Posts: 1,106
 

1999 SL2
1993 SW2
Default Re: timing "belt".. or is it a chain? when replace?

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
No, what stresses the timing system is shifting from 5th @80mph into 4th and letting the clutch out on a closed throttle, or 3rd if you are exceptionally creative.
What if one is rev-matching, as in they're using the gas pedal to match engine revs to wheel speed, THEN downshift?
...
1998 Red SL 5spd "The Right Honorable Duke Farnsworth the Functional of Syracuse":165,000 miles
1999 Forest Green SL2 5spd "Sally": 307,100+ miles
sallydriver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2013, 08:43 PM   #13
satlite440
Senior Member
satlite440 has much to be proud ofsatlite440 has much to be proud ofsatlite440 has much to be proud ofsatlite440 has much to be proud ofsatlite440 has much to be proud ofsatlite440 has much to be proud ofsatlite440 has much to be proud ofsatlite440 has much to be proud of
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: kent wa
Posts: 1,053

2001 SL2
Default Re: timing "belt".. or is it a chain? when replace?

if it's the engine slowing you down , it's doing it..
satlite440 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2013, 10:31 PM   #14
anmasher
Senior Member
anmasher has a spectacular aura aboutanmasher has a spectacular aura aboutanmasher has a spectacular aura about
 
anmasher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Martinsville, IN
Posts: 1,557
 

1995 SC2
1996 SL2
Default Re: timing "belt".. or is it a chain? when replace?

Stretch=hurt to us rednecks. Sounds quite reasonable why it is bad though, thanks!

Downshifting doesn't make much sense to me anyway given all the effort and wear of expensive parts. Brakes work just fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sallydriver View Post
What if one is rev-matching, as in they're using the gas pedal to match engine revs to wheel speed, THEN downshift?
That's quite a bit easier on the trans/clutch/etc, but I don't like revving the engine up real high like that while unloaded. Notice the idle rev limiter is 4k rpms. [Speculation]I think stresses on the rods go way up at high rpm when unloaded[/speculation]
anmasher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2013, 10:54 PM   #15
OldNuc
Super Member
OldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond repute
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Far Southwestern Iowa
Posts: 66,694
 

1998 SC2
Default Re: timing "belt".. or is it a chain? when replace?

Operated as designed meaning no down shifting engine braking, maintaining oil at full mark, and no jack rabbit starts the timing chain will not be failing first. It is not a high failure rate part.

If you are concerned then pull the cam cover and while maintaining the chain between the top of the sprockets tight check the intake cam timing when the crank is at TDC. If it is more than a drill bit off(retarded) then plan on a replacement project.
OldNuc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2013, 11:31 PM   #16
SL19302
Master Member
SL19302 is a name known to allSL19302 is a name known to allSL19302 is a name known to allSL19302 is a name known to allSL19302 is a name known to allSL19302 is a name known to all
 
SL19302's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Drums, PA
Posts: 3,350

2000 SW2
2002 SL1
Default Re: timing "belt".. or is it a chain? when replace?

I dont know of this is good or not but mine are both autos and I usually put it in neutral going down hills as I dont want the engines racing at 3 grand all the way down, I dont know of thats hurting anything or not but the way I look at it is Id rather change brakes then a timing chain or internal engine parts, I personally hate when the Autos shift into 3rd going down hills....
...
2015 Subaru Forester Limited "Prinny"
2000 SW2 Still Running Strong- 160K Traded In
2002 SL1 Still has Its Training Wheels on at 88K Traded In


CHECK YOUR OIL!
SL19302 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2013, 11:33 PM   #17
OldNuc
Super Member
OldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond repute
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Far Southwestern Iowa
Posts: 66,694
 

1998 SC2
Default Re: timing "belt".. or is it a chain? when replace?

Why I am not a fan of autotragic transmissions.
OldNuc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2013, 11:36 PM   #18
SL19302
Master Member
SL19302 is a name known to allSL19302 is a name known to allSL19302 is a name known to allSL19302 is a name known to allSL19302 is a name known to allSL19302 is a name known to all
 
SL19302's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Drums, PA
Posts: 3,350

2000 SW2
2002 SL1
Default Re: timing "belt".. or is it a chain? when replace?

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
Why I am not a fan of autotragic transmissions.
I know, They have alot of issues, but I have to say one thing about them when they work CORRECTLY they actually shift very smooth, Got to love the TC lockup its almost like a whole other gear
...
2015 Subaru Forester Limited "Prinny"
2000 SW2 Still Running Strong- 160K Traded In
2002 SL1 Still has Its Training Wheels on at 88K Traded In


CHECK YOUR OIL!
SL19302 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2013, 12:31 AM   #19
Signmaster
Master Member
Signmaster is a splendid one to beholdSignmaster is a splendid one to beholdSignmaster is a splendid one to beholdSignmaster is a splendid one to beholdSignmaster is a splendid one to beholdSignmaster is a splendid one to beholdSignmaster is a splendid one to behold
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
Posts: 6,346
 

1995 SL1
Default Re: timing "belt".. or is it a chain? when replace?

Unless a person is banging down through the gears at high revs, engine braking changes RPM slower than normal acceleration does, and way slower than when a person hits the gas when the clutch is in.

The load on the chain is the same pulling the cams regardless of how or why the engine changes speed. It happens more or less constantly, it's just a matter of how fast it happens.

Every launch on a manual, every shift on an auto, every rapid braking, etc, etc... they all accelerate or decelerate the engine and put different loads on the chain.


People that are scared of engine braking must drive like old ladies and get crappy gas mileage because they don't enter DCFO mode.
Signmaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2013, 02:02 AM   #20
adventureoflink
Master Member
adventureoflink has a spectacular aura aboutadventureoflink has a spectacular aura aboutadventureoflink has a spectacular aura about
 
adventureoflink's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: 255.255.255.255
Posts: 6,853

1997 SL2
Default Re: timing "belt".. or is it a chain? when replace?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SL19302 View Post
I personally hate when the Autos shift into 3rd going down hills....
isn't that an intentional feature of the TAAT?
...
97 SL2
DOB: 3/19/97
Date Obtained: 5/30/07
Status: Alive, 1/2 exhaust

2004 Merc G.Marquis GS
DOB: 2/4/04
Date Obtained: 7/6/12
Status: Alive, no heat
adventureoflink is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
"..timing chain stretch problem on 07 and 08." Doug C Outlook General 5 03-12-2010 10:08 PM
HELP!! need to find the "zip tie mehotd" for 3.0L timing belt installation DJboozeAlot L-Series Tech 7 03-04-2010 07:35 PM
Timing Belt or Chain - When to Replace unit731 S-Series Tech 21 08-20-2009 12:45 PM
advice needed on "when to replace valve body" bayfisher2day S-Series Tech 5 01-07-2007 10:08 AM
DOHC still "ticking" after timing chain replacement benson500 Miscellaneous Tech 8 07-03-2003 12:53 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:26 PM.

Advanced Forum Search | Advanced Photo Search


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
SaturnFans.com. The Saturn Enthusiasts Site.