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Old 11-12-2013, 01:34 PM   #1
camzshaft
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Default Well apparently my computer is fried!?!?!?!

So says my mechanic. I brought my car in yesterday morning after it crapped out going to work. Later that day they told me there was 8 engine codes (I'll update this when I know what they are) and today they said the did a whole load of troubleshooting and things point to the computer. Can I even get a computer?

Symptoms: The car felt like it had zero power when I stepped on the gas in 3rd gear to merge. My foot was to the floor and there was almost no power, no clutch slippage, grinding or anything. The only thing I really noticed was the car was jerking VIOLENTLY! Similar to when you first learn to drive standard and the car jerks back and forth because you don't have the gas/ clutch feel figured out yet.

please help!!
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Old 11-12-2013, 02:39 PM   #2
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Default Re: Well apparently my computer is fried!?!?!?!

It sounds like your mechanic isnít familiar with Saturnís, I recommend finding someone who is.

Anyway, Saturn ECM failure is very rare. I doubt youíll be able to find too many members on these forums that have replaced their computer and had it solve all of their problems. List the trouble codes when you can and weíll help from there.
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Old 11-12-2013, 03:45 PM   #3
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Default Re: Well apparently my computer is fried!?!?!?!

ok here we go..... **** me.

0128
0326
0340
0341
0410
1599
1624
0300
0107
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Old 11-12-2013, 03:59 PM   #4
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Default Re: Well apparently my computer is fried!?!?!?!

P128, low temp, replace thermostat STANT 14279
P107, MAP low output voltage, clean connector
P326, knock sensor circuit performance. Probably caused by 340-341-300
P410 AIR system fail, see video
P340-341 Replace plugs and wires use NGK plugs BKR5ESA-11 for DOHC
p300 probably an intake gasket leak, check for vacuum leaks.

You can ignore the rest of them for now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIrmkxj6wJE
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Old 11-12-2013, 04:59 PM   #5
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Default Re: Well apparently my computer is fried!?!?!?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by camzshaft View Post
So says my mechanic.

Symptoms: The car felt like it had zero power when I stepped on the gas in 3rd gear to merge. My foot was to the floor and there was almost no power, no clutch slippage, grinding or anything. The only thing I really noticed was the car was jerking VIOLENTLY! Similar to when you first learn to drive standard and the car jerks back and forth because you don't have the gas/ clutch feel figured out yet.

please help!!
1-Mileage?
2-Fuel pressure?
3-Do you or your mechanic know how to check for exhaust system blockage, a partially/completely broken catalytic converter?
4-Intermittent spark?
5-What maintenance was done, parts replaced? Draw a picture for us so we can imagine what you have.
...
VCX NANO
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Old 11-12-2013, 09:17 PM   #6
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Default Re: Well apparently my computer is fried!?!?!?!

ok quick question before I start ordering parts. If I go off these codes, get the required parts, replace them and wipe the codes with a reader will it rectify the problem or is there more to it then that?

OLDNUC: "Low voltage ouput, clean connector" what is this and how do I clean it? Any video links?

P300 error how and where do I check for leaks?

I did replace the plugs with NGKs approx 1yr ago. Wires are the same but there are no cracks, replace anyways? (not platinums, I believe those are the ones with the tiny arc contact point right? pardon my ignorance.)

what is a knock sensor?

fdryer: Mileage? per tank or total? I've got 218k on it and approx 450-500km/ tank mixed driving and about 600km all highway (just did a big roadtrip so I did tons of highway)

I don't know how to check for that (the cat issue), I'm sure my mechanic has done that but this is the first time this guy has seen my car... or my face.

no idea on intermittent spark, how do I check?

checking fuel pressure? Apparently I know nothing.


Since I've owned the car (Aug 2010) I've done:
- Serpentine Belt
- both front wheel bearings
- 1 tie rod (maybe both, can't remember)
- sway bar end links
- fuel filter
- air filter
- plugs
- EGR valve (this summer)
- both front strut/ shock assemblies (2011)
- front pads and rotors (this summer)
- new brake fluid
- new battery
- a fluid flush here and there, can't remember the frequency or what it was.
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Old 11-12-2013, 10:29 PM   #7
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Default Re: Well apparently my computer is fried!?!?!?!

if the car is jerking back and forth as if it's gonna rip the frame in two or something, I'm surprised you didn't set any lean/rich codes.. I'd see about checking for leaking vacuum as well. (on that note since you DO have a 2002 S-Series, and you replaced the filter, you DID use a OEM or WIX unit right?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc
P340-341 Replace plugs and wires use NGK plugs BKR5ESA-11 for DOHC
don't forget to also check/clean the ignition control module, coils, and the mating surface to the block
...
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Date Obtained: 5/30/07
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Old 11-12-2013, 10:53 PM   #8
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Default Re: Well apparently my computer is fried!?!?!?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by camzshaft View Post
ok quick question before I start ordering parts. If I go off these codes, get the required parts, replace them and wipe the codes with a reader will it rectify the problem or is there more to it then that?
Do not start throwing parts at it yet, make haste slowly. Yes, after every repair clear all codes with a scanner/reader.

OLDNUC: "Low voltage ouput, clean connector" what is this and how do I clean it? Any video links?
Buy a can of CRC QD-Electronics Cleaner at the parts store. Disconnect the MAP sensor connector carefully and spray out the connector and the socket, let it all dry and reconnect. The MAP is located on the car's left side on the manifold below the throttle body on the intake.

P300 error how and where do I check for leaks?
Center of the page, large search box, type in vacuum leak an you will find much info. Before doing that replace the plugs and wires. Also clean the coil towers with a rag soaked with the QD cleaner.

I did replace the plugs with NGKs approx 1yr ago. Wires are the same but there are no cracks, replace anyways? (not platinums, I believe those are the ones with the tiny arc contact point right? pardon my ignorance.)
Yes, replace both as the 340-341 are telling you there is an ignition problem.

what is a knock sensor?
Device located low on the block to detect engine ping before you hear it. If it goes haywire the engine runs just about like you described. Cause is not determined yet so do not fix it yet either.


fdryer: Mileage? per tank or total? I've got 218k on it and approx 450-500km/ tank mixed driving and about 600km all highway (just did a big roadtrip so I did tons of highway)

I don't know how to check for that (the cat issue), I'm sure my mechanic has done that but this is the first time this guy has seen my car... or my face.

no idea on intermittent spark, how do I check?

checking fuel pressure? Apparently I know nothing.


Since I've owned the car (Aug 2010) I've done:
- Serpentine Belt
- both front wheel bearings
- 1 tie rod (maybe both, can't remember)
- sway bar end links
- fuel filter
- air filter
- plugs
- EGR valve (this summer)
- both front strut/ shock assemblies (2011)
- front pads and rotors (this summer)
- new brake fluid
- new battery
- a fluid flush here and there, can't remember the frequency or what it was.
Do you happen to know what brand of fuel filter was used for the replacement? Fuel pressure may be a valid issue.
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Old 11-12-2013, 11:01 PM   #9
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Default Re: Well apparently my computer is fried!?!?!?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by adventureoflink View Post
if the car is jerking back and forth as if it's gonna rip the frame in two or something, I'm surprised you didn't set any lean/rich codes.. I'd see about checking for leaking vacuum as well. (on that note since you DO have a 2002 S-Series, and you replaced the filter, you DID use a OEM or WIX unit right?)


don't forget to also check/clean the ignition control module, coils, and the mating surface to the block
K&N filter I've had it for a couple years now. could it be a source of some of the problems? Which vacuum are you speaking of?
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Old 11-12-2013, 11:20 PM   #10
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Default Re: Well apparently my computer is fried!?!?!?!

Intake manifold vacuum, do not worry about it yet. Fix one thing at a time or you will have a large mess.
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Old 11-12-2013, 11:22 PM   #11
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Default Re: Well apparently my computer is fried!?!?!?!

Mileage as in 218k miles - a good number to determine two possible issues, a fuel pump and/or worn out/disintegrating catalytic converter.

No one can tell you when a fuel pump fails so 218k miles would be high enough mileage to measure fuel pressure. If a fuel filter was never replaced, replace it. There's a fuel test valve on the fuel rail in plain sight for attaching a pressure gauge.

One way to test for a blocked exhaust system is to remove the front O2 sensor before the catcon and make a brief LOUD drive to see if engine power suddenly comes back. The alternate exhaust hole allows a constipated exhaust system to breathe, indicating a blocked catcon.
...
VCX NANO
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Old 11-13-2013, 12:19 AM   #12
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Default Re: Well apparently my computer is fried!?!?!?!

"The only thing I really noticed was the car was jerking VIOLENTLY! Similar to when you first learn to drive standard and the car jerks back and forth because you don't have the gas/ clutch feel figured out yet".

(Sounds like my old Buick when I blew the head) But I'm sure the mechanic checked for that.
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Old 11-13-2013, 12:57 AM   #13
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Default Re: Well apparently my computer is fried!?!?!?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by camzshaft View Post
K&N filter I've had it for a couple years now. could it be a source of some of the problems?
usually the problems that stem with the K&N filters is the grease, which can gum up MAF (Mass Air Flow) sensors. Of course our Saturns do not have these (but IIRC didn't it gum up the MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure) sensors on the G.M. trucks?), thank goodness. (and this, ladies and gentlemen, is why I'm holding back putting a cone filter, let alone a K&N drop-in on my grand marquis)

Additionally, I think I read somewhere that the K&N filters have bigger pores in the filter material when compared to a traditional dissposable filter, which is why you get more air, power, etc out of them. it could be sending large dirt particles into the engine.
...
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DOB: 3/19/97
Date Obtained: 5/30/07
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Old 11-13-2013, 12:57 AM   #14
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Default Re: Well apparently my computer is fried!?!?!?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
Mileage as in 218k miles - a good number to determine two possible issues, a fuel pump and/or worn out/disintegrating catalytic converter.

No one can tell you when a fuel pump fails so 218k miles would be high enough mileage to measure fuel pressure. If a fuel filter was never replaced, replace it. There's a fuel test valve on the fuel rail in plain sight for attaching a pressure gauge.

One way to test for a blocked exhaust system is to remove the front O2 sensor before the catcon and make a brief LOUD drive to see if engine power suddenly comes back. The alternate exhaust hole allows a constipated exhaust system to breathe, indicating a blocked catcon.
Sorry 218 000 KM, Damn Canadianisms.

They checked the fuel pump and said it was good, I'm guessing the cat then.

I did replace the fuel filter approx 1.5yrs ago but maybe sooner.
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Old 11-13-2013, 12:59 AM   #15
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Default Re: Well apparently my computer is fried!?!?!?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by camzshaft View Post
I did replace the fuel filter approx 1.5yrs ago but maybe sooner.
again, do you remember the brand that you used? OEM, WIX, etc?
...
97 SL2
DOB: 3/19/97
Date Obtained: 5/30/07
Status: Alive, 1/2 exhaust

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Date Obtained: 7/6/12
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Old 11-13-2013, 01:08 AM   #16
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Default Re: Well apparently my computer is fried!?!?!?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by adventureoflink View Post
again, do you remember the brand that you used? OEM, WIX, etc?
Not a clue sorry.
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Old 11-13-2013, 01:27 AM   #17
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Default Re: Well apparently my computer is fried!?!?!?!

Well, start with the 340-341 by changing plugs and wires. Clean off the plug wire towers as well, should be no white corrosion. If there is get it off with a soft brush such as a tooth brush and rag with the CRC QD Electronics cleaner.
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Old 11-13-2013, 01:31 AM   #18
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Default Re: Well apparently my computer is fried!?!?!?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
Well, start with the 340-341 by changing plugs and wires. Clean off the plug wire towers as well, should be no white corrosion. If there is get it off with a soft brush such as a tooth brush and rag with the CRC QD Electronics cleaner.
Ok will do, thank you yet again for your help, and everyone else too! question, what are the "plug wires towers"?

So I'll change these, reset the codes and then try and drive again and see if I notice any changes?

what should I do next on the list? does it matter or would doing one item before another item be better? I'm buying a code reader tomorrow too, one just went on sale. boom!

I was also going to clean out the throttle body again with brake cleaner. Yay or nay?
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Old 11-13-2013, 01:56 AM   #19
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Default Re: Well apparently my computer is fried!?!?!?!

Plug wire towers are on the coils, where the wires snap on ( opposite end from the spark plugs ). I would leave the throttle body alone for now, one thing at a time.
...
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Old 11-13-2013, 02:15 PM   #20
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Default Re: Well apparently my computer is fried!?!?!?!

All of these problems donít just pop up at once. How long have you been neglecting the car? Youíve been driving with the check engine light on for quite some time.
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