Water Pump Replacement/ Timing Belt 3.0

[Chaz9496]

It states in my manual that if the coolant has been leaking on the timing belt, which I would assume it would have, the belt will need replaced. Ah, even if it just was back in Sept last year ? I'm not comfortible doing a timing belt. I had the shop replace it when I had the engine swapped last fall. If I had the shop do the job, it couldn't be done for at least a week. I can't drive it that long without it almost draining the coolant resv. in only a few hours of driving. Thanks for your thoughts. Edit: It's only been leaking for a day.

[fdryer]

Are you sure coolant is leaking from the water pump? That means no evidence of coolant leaking with either wet spots or dried coolant marking the leak area; radiator hoses, input and output heater hoses from engine block, input/output to heater core, (horror of horrors) leaking inside the car from heater core damage or connections to the heater core (on passenger side), small coolant hoses to from the throttle body (used to heat up throttle body). Coolant leaking from the water pump should leave a wet area at the bottom of the timing cover since there it doesn't use a gasket.

Under normal conditions, replacing a timing belt should coincide with replacing the water pump since it's labor intensive to go in twice when doing both with the timing cover removed is recommended (service manual procedures).

[Chaz9496]

I've never done a timing belt, and not sure I can. It doesn't seem to hard and I've watched video's on it. The leak's dripping rather fast from behind the CS pulley, running down into the shroud cover below the A/C compressor and onto the exhaust pipe. It's been too hot here the past few days to get under it and get a better look. I was hoping it may be coming from somewhere else, but I'm not optimistic about it. I can't look further until the weekend when it cools down a little. Edit: As of this morning, it wasn't leaking as of yet and the resv. was still almost full. Figure that.

[Chaz9496]

Edit: I've also noticed a idle and shifting issue as well. I have to idea why that would be connected with this leak issue, but somethings acting strange. Also the cooling fan running for only a few seconds, then shutting off, and it's not even that hot. Somethings going on. No codes.

[fdryer]

Timing belt replacement aren't for the faint hearted. Even when checking numerous times, rotating many 720 revolutions per TDC I was off by one tooth. Water pump was replaced too, as recommended in service manuals.

Seeing coolant nowhere else but under the crankshaft seems to point to the water pump. As cast aluminum units, they appear as very sturdy but preventive maintenance every 100k miles for timing belt and water pump avoids running into problems if neglecting them to save money. The cost of a damaged engine is more costly than a few hundred dollars for a repair shop to do the work. Much less if done as a diyer with skills.

I'm guessing the possibility of engine coolant heating triggering the cooling fan and maybe the erratic idle/shift issues. When coolant leaks out, pressures are lower as coolant rises above normal operating temps. Service manuals describe a temperature range with alerts at lower and higher temps outside the operating range. Programming determines when to cycle cooling fans. EFI systems are more sensitive to issues and due mainly to how electronics and sensors are designed for accuracy compared to older non EFI systems. Overall, this equates to better engine management with better performance and tighter emissions control. One of the downsides to higher precision may be sensitivity when EFI systems encounter issues and how programming handles it in error codes and creating different issues as a direct consequence of sensor reaction.

Hopefully, water pump and timing belt replacement eliminates these issues.

[Chaz9496]

If I remember correctly, the pump is accessed from the right wheel well just like the starter ? I thought my Chilton's stated so.

[fdryer]

The wheel well doesn't allow access to removing the water pump. Saturn service manuals show and describe pump removal from above.

[Chaz9496]

Correct, sorry. One thing I was going to add, the Starter couldn't come out thru the wheel well, there's no way. It looks like the exhaust may have to come down to get to it, It's buried ! I don't think, with my back, could get it myself. I'm not 30 anymore ! lol. Looks like this may be a long warm weekend accomplishing this.

[Chaz9496]

I got the pump off, and coolant went all over the belt and bottom pulley. I dowst it with some fresh water, blew the belt and pulley, and tensioners with the air hose. With my inspection findings, I found a small 2 inch crack in the cover, down at the bolt that doesn't come completely out, just spins. Looks like when they put the new belt on my swapped engine last fall, they may have torqued it too tight or something, or someone was in it at one time, because it had a few slightly rounded off torx heads. Do you think it would be smart to replace the cover ? I don't think it would get contaminated, but I was just asking. There's an L300 at the yard I could get one. They're not too hard to pull. I could RTV it too, I guess, and the splash cover would help gaurd it as well. Thanks for suggestions.

[fdryer]

I'm not sure how one can strip threads unless rushing and/or the cover was bent to misalign mounting holes. The stripped bolt should allow pulling it out with vise grips then drilling for either an insert for the same thread or larger bolt (which would require drilling the mounting hole to accommodate a larger bolt). A tap is needed to thread the hole for a new bolt. A threaded insert kit, Helicoil, would have a drill, some steel threaded inserts, a special tap and a tool to install inserts. It's your choice to replace the timing cover. I don't remember any gasket for the timing cover. Since the cover has a hole for the water pump flange to poke thru, the cover serves as a dust/debris shield to the timing belt. Sealant or gasket isn't mentioned in service manuals or needed. One of the criteria for replacing the timing belt are oil/coolant impregnated belt. A swollen belt should be replaced.

[Chaz9496]

welp, no car, again. Just as I thought, leaks like a b***h ! I have a feeling I'm going to be financing another car. First one in 25 years, if this is worse than a pump, which I doubt it's defective. There wasn't anything that looked like it was leaking from the prior pump weep hole, there should have been a stream or residue leading out of it. I guess it goes to the shop and find out, if they can find it. Oh Happy Day's !

[Chaz9496]

I guess I could run it with the timing cover off and see what I can find. Should have probably done that in the first place. It could take a week or more for the shop to get it in as busy as they are. Don't have that much time. Wish me good luck, I'm gonna need it.

[fdryer]

Without the serpentine belt on, the water pump isn't under any belt pressure. You should be able to grab the pulley hub with one hand and try rocking the pump shaft up/down/left/right. Good pumps won't rock at all. A rocky pump shaft means the bearings caved in as the seals leak coolant. Pumps usually last well after 100k miles but are not recommended to leave them in when the timing belt is recommended for replacement every 100k miles. Both replaced at the same time to avoid revisiting one or the other not replaced.

[Chaz9496]

Head Gasket. It's not coming from the pump. Confirmed by inspection with the cover off. That would be why the belt was dry. Welp, time to call the shop for diagnosis.

[Chaz9496]

The only issue is, a head gasket emptying the resv in 20 min ? Can a HG actually do that ? Seems a little quick for that type of leak.

[pierrot]

Originally Posted by Chaz9496

The only issue is, a head gasket emptying the resv in 20 min ? Can a HG actually do that ? Seems a little quick for that type of leak.

I would tend to agree with you that the draining of the reservoir tank in such a short time seems very unusual especially if it did not create a noticeable amount of smoke from the exhaust system. Did you check the oil to see if it's appearance was normal? (Hopefully, the block has not cracked. [This doesn't seem likely, but it should be checked.]) To verify a head gasket concern one should use a product like Block Tester.

https://www.blocktester.com/product/...leak-test-kit/

Since you work in an auto parts business it should be fairly easy for you to get this for yourself if you wish to do so. When I worked at my father's service station he always kept this kit on hand. Additionally, we kept the fluid on hand for sale at his auto parts store. Most of our mechanic customers already owned the kit with the tool.

[Chaz9496]

One of my thoughts turned out to be correct. Cause of the leak found by the smoke machine, the thermostat extension tube bracket broken. I bet the shop did it when they replaced the thermostat back in Feb. I hope it's covered by the warranty from the threm. repair at least.