SaturnFans.com
saturnfans.com - classifieds - forums - webmail


Go Back   SaturnFans.com Forums > Models > Saturn Ion > Ion Tech

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-16-2012, 09:17 PM   #1
truck1985
Junior Member
truck1985 is a jewel in the roughtruck1985 is a jewel in the roughtruck1985 is a jewel in the rough
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 47

2004 ION-3 Sedan
Mad 2004 Ion-3 Won't Start

I just finished replacing the Radiator, Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor, and Thermostat on my 2004 Ion-3. When I started the car to bring up to temp as part of the coolant filling procedure, I noticed that the engine was idling a little hard. I took it for a test drive, and the Check Engine Light came on. It gave an error code for cylinder 3 misfire. Which I believe is P0303(?). When I tried restarting the car after pulling codes, it wouldn't even start. I checked and replaced the coil pack, and the Ignition Module, and the spark plugs. The only thing I noticed that was amiss was some oil/water in cylinder 2 above the plug, but I think that got there from the last oil change, but not sure. The thing that confuses me about that is that the misfire is on cylinder 3, so I don't think that is the issue? What should I do next?
...
Truck1985
2004 Saturn Ion3 Manual
1992 Saturn SC Auto
No mods
truck1985 is offline   Reply With Quote
SaturnFans.com Sponsored Links
Old 12-16-2012, 09:32 PM   #2
truck1985
Junior Member
truck1985 is a jewel in the roughtruck1985 is a jewel in the roughtruck1985 is a jewel in the rough
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 47

2004 ION-3 Sedan
Question Re: 2004 Ion-3 Won't Start

A piece of information I left out...the engine will crank, it just won't start.
...
Truck1985
2004 Saturn Ion3 Manual
1992 Saturn SC Auto
No mods
truck1985 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2012, 11:23 PM   #3
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 45,209
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: 2004 Ion-3 Won't Start

Can you check for spark and fuel? Removing plugs will show whether or not fuel is reaching each cylinder. If you made several attempts at starting then the engine may have flooded and require holding the throttle wide open for another start - the engine may sputter to life. Removing and finding flooded plugs will allow starting without plugs in place to blow out excess fuel. Dry off soaked plugs and replace them back into the engine for a restart.
...
VCX NANO
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2012, 05:41 PM   #4
truck1985
Junior Member
truck1985 is a jewel in the roughtruck1985 is a jewel in the roughtruck1985 is a jewel in the rough
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 47

2004 ION-3 Sedan
Default Re: 2004 Ion-3 Won't Start

I checked for fuel , there was an over abundance of fuel in each cylinder. I cleaned out the fuel, and tried starting. It almost sputtered to life, but not quite. I'm not sure how to check for spark on each cylinder. I am getting ready to check compression as well, not sure if that will turn up any results. I'll post after to let you know.
...
Truck1985
2004 Saturn Ion3 Manual
1992 Saturn SC Auto
No mods
truck1985 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2012, 07:10 PM   #5
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 45,209
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: 2004 Ion-3 Won't Start

Tried holding the pedal to the floor deliberately to tell the pcm to shut off injector pulses while starting? Are you sure the coolant sensor is connected?
...
VCX NANO
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2012, 08:11 PM   #6
truck1985
Junior Member
truck1985 is a jewel in the roughtruck1985 is a jewel in the roughtruck1985 is a jewel in the rough
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 47

2004 ION-3 Sedan
Dizzy Re: 2004 Ion-3 Won't Start

Yeah, I've tried starting with and without holding the accelerator pedal to the floor. I verified that the ECT Sensor is connected. Still won't start.
...
Truck1985
2004 Saturn Ion3 Manual
1992 Saturn SC Auto
No mods
truck1985 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 05:14 PM   #7
truck1985
Junior Member
truck1985 is a jewel in the roughtruck1985 is a jewel in the roughtruck1985 is a jewel in the rough
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 47

2004 ION-3 Sedan
Default Re: 2004 Ion-3 Won't Start

I ran a compression test. All cylinders were well above 100 psi, two were even above 300 psi. Since I got excessive fuel out of all cylinders when I removed the spark plugs, I removed the fuel pump relay prior to running the test, and blew out the excess fuel from all cylinders, and I still have excessive fuel in all cylinders. Will performing an oil change possibly remove the excessive fuel from the cylinders?
...
Truck1985
2004 Saturn Ion3 Manual
1992 Saturn SC Auto
No mods
truck1985 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 05:31 PM   #8
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 45,209
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: 2004 Ion-3 Won't Start

Replacing oil won't help with a flooded engine unless a lot of fuel was pumped into the engine and drained into the oil pan. Check the dipstick. More than a quart of fuel in the oil simply dilutes it and isn't good for lubrication otherwise continue with troubleshooting.

Good move removing the fuel pump relay to stop any more fuel injection. Something is terribly wrong with flooding that may be drowning spark from getting the engine to fire up. Perhaps disconnecting the battery negative cable for a minute for a pcm reset may help while thinking about where fuel is coming from. At ignition ON engine off the pcm cycles the fuel pump for 2-seconds to prime/pressurize the fuel rail then shuts off. A fuel pressure gauge may help to monitor this pressure and if any immediate bleed down occurs. A check valve and fuel pressure regulator are supposed to maintain pressures for at least 5-minutes before any bleed down occurs. An immediate bleed down would indicate a leak somewhere (presuming pressure is built up at first); injector(s), pressure regulator if a vacuum line is used, something causing the pcm to open injectors and dump fuel into cylinders. If flooding isn't the case and pressure holds then spark needs to be tested.

With a coil pack and ignition control module sitting over all the plugs, a spark test will require removing the coil pack/icm/plugs for reassembly to lay on the engine so you can see the plug electrodes; reconnecting wiring and grounding each plug to the engine block will allow someone to turn the ignition switch to the START position for a few seconds while you observe for spark on any plug. The engine will spin easily without compression so a strong spark should show up. If no spark occurs then its either the icm or coil pack. The majority of these ignition system (icm/coil pack combo) failures are icm related.
...
VCX NANO

Last edited by fdryer; 12-18-2012 at 05:36 PM.
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 05:59 PM   #9
truck1985
Junior Member
truck1985 is a jewel in the roughtruck1985 is a jewel in the roughtruck1985 is a jewel in the rough
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 47

2004 ION-3 Sedan
Default Re: 2004 Ion-3 Won't Start

I just checked the oil. It does have excessive fuel in it. I'm going to change it tonight or tomorrow. The negative battery terminal has been disconnected almost daily for several minutes to several hours a day since I last Thursday, so I don't know if doing it again will help. I will have to borrow a fuel pressure tester to test that. After I run that test, I will post my results. I will also see about running spark test. I will also post those results when I have them.
...
Truck1985
2004 Saturn Ion3 Manual
1992 Saturn SC Auto
No mods
truck1985 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 07:31 PM   #10
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 45,209
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: 2004 Ion-3 Won't Start

You can try the spark test first if you prefer this since it doesn't require anything other than removing everything and then reconnecting again with the exception of having the plugs out so you can see if spark occurs or not. Leave the fuel pump fuse or relay disconnected for spark testing.

I didn't know you had the battery disconnected for troubleshooting. At least it eliminates the pcm for now.
...
VCX NANO
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 03:39 PM   #11
truck1985
Junior Member
truck1985 is a jewel in the roughtruck1985 is a jewel in the roughtruck1985 is a jewel in the rough
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 47

2004 ION-3 Sedan
Default Re: 2004 Ion-3 Won't Start

I performed the spark test. I have spark on all four cylinders. I performed the fuel pressure test, it starts out at 52 psi, and holds between 51-54 psi (with very minute, slow changes over the course of 10 minutes (I only watched for ten minutes)). I had the ICM/Coil and plugs removed in excess of 12 hours, actually for nearly 20 hours. When I first rolled the engine to perform the spark test, I got fluid out of the head, mostly from cylinder 3. It appears to be coolant. I'm thinking I have either a blown head gasket, or a warped head. Bearing in mind that the engine did overheat when the radiator blew, does this sound like it could be the issue?
...
Truck1985
2004 Saturn Ion3 Manual
1992 Saturn SC Auto
No mods
truck1985 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 03:46 PM   #12
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 45,209
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: 2004 Ion-3 Won't Start

Excellent with fuel and spark testing!? You just eliminated both. Coolant being thrown out cylinder #3 isn't a good sign - I'm guessing a blown head gasket.......
...
VCX NANO
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2012, 10:56 AM   #13
truck1985
Junior Member
truck1985 is a jewel in the roughtruck1985 is a jewel in the roughtruck1985 is a jewel in the rough
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 47

2004 ION-3 Sedan
Default Re: 2004 Ion-3 Won't Start

I tore down the top of the engine, pulled the head. Turned out to be a blown head gasket, and there was some slight damage to the cylinder head itself. I have a new cylinder head coming today, and will have most of my parts by the end of the day. Since I have un-torqued my head bolts, should I replace them?
...
Truck1985
2004 Saturn Ion3 Manual
1992 Saturn SC Auto
No mods
truck1985 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2012, 12:40 PM   #14
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 45,209
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: 2004 Ion-3 Won't Start

While they may look re-usable, replace them. When you find out the torque specs and see the words 'torque to yield' then head bolts are thrown away and new ones used. Head bolts stretch when used and lose their strength when loosened and reused.
...
VCX NANO
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2012, 07:58 PM   #15
chilipepper1327
Senior Member
chilipepper1327 will become famous soon enough
 
chilipepper1327's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Listowel, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,016

2006 ION-3 Quad Coupe
Default Re: 2004 Ion-3 Won't Start

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
While they may look re-usable, replace them. When you find out the torque specs and see the words 'torque to yield' then head bolts are thrown away and new ones used. Head bolts stretch when used and lose their strength when loosened and reused.
Also, remember to follow a correct tightening pattern when bolting the heads back down. Start in the middle of the head on one side and criss cross back and forth from one side of the head to the other, one direction and then the other, untill you have snuugged all bolts on the head. In other words, start in the middle, moving back and forth from one direction to the other.At least 3 passess from just snug to fully torqued as per manual. This is extremely important with cylinder heads...Being a good backyard mechanic, you probably know this but it never hurts repeating...
chilipepper1327 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2012, 09:49 PM   #16
Richard Till
New Member
Richard Till is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Iuka, Mississippi 38852
Posts: 7

2004 ION-2 Sedan
Default Re: 2004 Ion-3 Won't Start

i`m performing the same repairs on a 1987 cavalier with a 2.0 liter. bought car not knowing any of its history except it had a blown head gasket. someone really got it hot. head was warped .018 so i had it shaved. i`ll use a fel-pro gasket, refill the coolant system with green anti-freeze and add a bottle of bars stop leak & conditioner.
Richard Till is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2013, 08:56 PM   #17
truck1985
Junior Member
truck1985 is a jewel in the roughtruck1985 is a jewel in the roughtruck1985 is a jewel in the rough
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 47

2004 ION-3 Sedan
Default Re: 2004 Ion-3 Won't Start

Sorry about the lack of response on my part. Fdryer, thanks for the input, that's what I thought, but wanted to double check. chilipepper1327, thanks for the reminder, the torque sequence was listed both in my Haynes Manual and on Alldata, but a good thing to remind people, myself included, to check for that on such an important project. I just got my Ion on the road on Tuesday. Remanned head came in from Clearwater, Fl. and took some time to get installed. The head came off a Chevy Cavalier, which didn't seem to be an issue, until I went to install the injectors. The Ion injectors are shorter than the ones from the Cavalier, so I had to use Cavalier injectors in order to get them to seat properly, and meet up with my fuel rail. Now I have a P0172 code (system too rich bank 1). I've checked the air filter, and replaced it, and am getting ready to look at other troubleshooting procedures from alldata. Any thoughts on this issue, do you think that the Cavalier Fuel Injectors could be the issue? Aside from that error code, the engine is running better than it has since I bought the car.
...
Truck1985
2004 Saturn Ion3 Manual
1992 Saturn SC Auto
No mods
truck1985 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2013, 10:44 PM   #18
chilipepper1327
Senior Member
chilipepper1327 will become famous soon enough
 
chilipepper1327's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Listowel, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,016

2006 ION-3 Quad Coupe
Default Re: 2004 Ion-3 Won't Start

Quote:
Originally Posted by truck1985 View Post
Sorry about the lack of response on my part. Fdryer, thanks for the input, that's what I thought, but wanted to double check. chilipepper1327, thanks for the reminder, the torque sequence was listed both in my Haynes Manual and on Alldata, but a good thing to remind people, myself included, to check for that on such an important project. I just got my Ion on the road on Tuesday. Remanned head came in from Clearwater, Fl. and took some time to get installed. The head came off a Chevy Cavalier, which didn't seem to be an issue, until I went to install the injectors. The Ion injectors are shorter than the ones from the Cavalier, so I had to use Cavalier injectors in order to get them to seat properly, and meet up with my fuel rail. Now I have a P0172 code (system too rich bank 1). I've checked the air filter, and replaced it, and am getting ready to look at other troubleshooting procedures from alldata. Any thoughts on this issue, do you think that the Cavalier Fuel Injectors could be the issue? Aside from that error code, the engine is running better than it has since I bought the car.
These engines could be different in bore and stroke? Year of the heads, injection type, Displacement is...?
chilipepper1327 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 12:48 AM   #19
2006 ion2
Master Member
2006 ion2 has a spectacular aura about2006 ion2 has a spectacular aura about2006 ion2 has a spectacular aura about
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Da U.P, EH!
Posts: 8,863
 

2007 ION-2 Sedan
Default Re: 2004 Ion-3 Won't Start

Afaik, they're fairly different heads. If you put the wrong injectors in (not for the ion) that would definitely cause issues. The sensors, ecu, power steering, and injectors are different for sure. If you put any of this on your engine from the wrong engine you're probably going to have problems.
...
2007 Saturn Ion 2
2003 Chevrolet venture lt

trifecta dealer for the U.P. and WI. There is no two door ion. Proudly driving one of the last saturns produced before gm killed the brand.
2006 ion2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 06:13 PM   #20
truck1985
Junior Member
truck1985 is a jewel in the roughtruck1985 is a jewel in the roughtruck1985 is a jewel in the rough
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 47

2004 ION-3 Sedan
Default Re: 2004 Ion-3 Won't Start

Put a brand new air filter in, and the check engine light cleared itself. It might have to do with the fact that the old filter was about 10-12 months old, and got left out in the elements, including rain during the repair. As far as the model year, bore, stroke, injection type, and displacement...all I know is the head is from a 2.2 liter ecotec engine off a Chevy Cavalier, not sure what model year.
...
Truck1985
2004 Saturn Ion3 Manual
1992 Saturn SC Auto
No mods
truck1985 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2004 Ion 3 won't start truck1985 Ion General 2 01-30-2012 12:55 PM
2004 Saturn Vue won't start jsim92480 Vue General 1 10-20-2011 01:05 PM
2004 Vue Honda V6 , no start VIP Vue Tech 6 12-13-2009 09:41 PM
2004 saturn vue will not start lisam Vue General 5 04-14-2009 08:43 PM
2004 L300 Won't start - please help mjvucf L-Series Tech 3 12-15-2008 03:35 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:55 PM.

Advanced Forum Search | Advanced Photo Search


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
SaturnFans.com. The Saturn Enthusiasts Site.