1999 SL2 Misfire Mystery

[SL22]

Originally Posted by billr

Sorry, I recommend getting that O-ring out of there. It might just "blow through", but the potential for ugly damage is too great to risk.

I gotta ask... how did the O-ring get into the manifold??? The holes for the injectors should be smaller than the O-ring OD. Or is the fuel-rail ring a smaller size than the one for the body?

I will see what I can find about that injector P/N. What is the P/N on the other three?

I pulled the fuel rail off and saw one of the injectors was missing its O ring. Put my finger in the hole and felt it. Probably pushed it back a little bit when I did that. Took a thin punch and bent the end to make a hook to try and extract it and as soon as I touched it it jumped down the hole. Whoops.

How big a of a deal is it to get that intake off? I tried to find a video but haven't been able to find a decent one.

I have been doing some research and I do think the injector the previous owner put in there was from a SOHC. Hopefully that was the problem. Will order a new one off Rock Auto.

Thanks again for all the help so far.

[SL22]

Would you recommend new or remanufactured injectors? I initially was going to purchase the new one but then thought that I might go with remanufactured since there is probably a very high chance that it is an OEM part.

[SL22]

Sorry for triple post. This site doesn't allow for post editing and I just saw your question about the part number on the other three. They have 8318 17109448 on them.

[billr]

I would go for new, but not insist on true OEM (AC, Delco, Rochester, whatever).

Since these injectors are roll-crimped, I don't think there is any way to really "rebuild" them. A rebuilt would probably have only a new inlet filter/screen and be inspected for coil resistance. Better rebuild vendors probably also test for spray pattern and flow-rate, but it might be tough to tell who does and who doesn't.

[billr]

The 17109448 is also high-Z, but flow-rate is 16.95 #/hr

[SL22]

Thanks. Are there other part numbers that will work? Rock auto is giving me a list of fuel injectors for 1999 S Seires w/ DOHC. The pics all look right but only one is an exact match of the part number and its a reman unit.

The new one I was looking to purchase has the following OEM / interchange numbers listed;

17103007, 17107267, 17109826, 17112979, 17113175, 17113572, 17120262, 19244620, 21007592

[mattwithcats]

o-ring…
Put a ladies nylon stocking over the end of a shop vac.
See if you can suck the o-ring into the hose / stocking…

I would just get 4 AC Delco fuel injectors and call it a day…

I had a P301 I think, I got rid of it by replacing spark plug wires

[billr]

Thinking about that, using vacuum to get the ring, I figured it might be best to suck at the TB, pulling the ring that direction. To make it s effective as possible, I also figured it might help to remove the TB (not a hard job).

Then it dawned on me... with the TB off you could probably see it with a mirror and just reach in with long hook.

Nine injector P/Ns for me to look for? OK, but not until later today.

[SL22]

My plan is to go buy a $5 flexible grabber tool from home Depot and borrow a borescope from AutoZone. And stick them down the injector port and see if I can see and grab it.

Plan b is the vacuum down the port like you suggested.

[SL22]

You don't have to look it up but I really appreciate the help. It turns out 19244620 is the number for Saturn DOHC. Not sure what the difference is between that and the one I have. Going to try to hit the JY and see what they have after work so I can get it running today. They have a 98 SL2 at the pick and pull across from work. If not I will make an order on Rock and get it done next week when the parts come.

[SL22]

Went to the junk yard and pulled two injectors. They are OEM and part number matches. I know new would be better but I was afraid I'd order and get the wrong part so I got them at the junkyard since I know are right and I have a back up if it doesn't work or stops working down the road.

Went to AutoZone and borrowed the borescope. Stuck it in the hole and can't see anything. Stuck the grabber tool in there, nothing. Stuck a piece of a wire hanger around to try and move it. Stuck the borescope down there and still nothing.

Going to try the vacuum idea but honestly what are my odds I'll be ok if I start it up the way it is? Don't think I'll be able to remove the intake manifold where the car is parked on the street and I have no where to push it to. The tow and mechanic bill would probably be more than the car cost me. If I can't get it out with the vacuum I am just going to start it and hope for the best.

[billr]

Take the plugs out (so it will crank fastest possible), hold the throttle wide-open, and crank for 5-10 seconds. Then take compression. If all are OK, I think you have a good chance the ring blew clear. And, if one cylinder is now low on compression, I think there probably won't be any serious/permanent damage.

[fetchitfido]

It's probably sitting on top of the intake valve. I have no idea how much they open while running, it's possible they don't open as wide as the o-ring is so shouldn't be sucked into the engine.

Hardest part with taking the intake off is getting the PS pump out of the way. 1 bracket from the pump to the intake, another bracket from the pump to the passenger axle mount, belt and 3-4 bolts to the block bracket and it should let everything clear to get to the o-ring and a new gasket on.

IIRC injectors are '91-'95 then '96-'02.5 and '02.5-end for the DOHC's. The 02.5 injectors have the same specs as '01 but the connector changes. Not sure on SOHC part changes but the injectors are a lower flow rate than DOHC.

[SL22]

I checked with the borescope, didn't see it by the valves. Didn't see it at all actually. I think it might have fallen straight down and is sitting on the floor of the intake just under the hole. I can't flex the borescope to look that way because the last inch or two is not flexible.

Going to try to suck it out it with my vacuum today. If not I'll put it back together and hope for the best.

[billr]

Are you looking in from the TB end of the manifold, or trying to do this through the injector port? I think the TB is easy to R&R; but as said before, you will probably be OK even if the ring did get down in the cylinder.

[SL22]

Swapped the injector in yesterday and the car is running great. No codes, no sign of misfire. Thanks for the help!