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Old 09-08-2022, 04:05 PM   #21
billr
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Default Re: Slamming Back After Input Shaft Nut And VB Repair

Yes, the TFT sensor is the one very close to the filter, the one shown more clearly in the photos and above the filter in the photo. I don't remember it being so close to the filter! You will probably have to use some extender fittings or a hose to connect a gauge, even if just for the fuse-pull bit.

There were no codes with that TFT sensor disconnected? If you can't run the engine right now, and get the trans up to full temp, than I would ignore the lack of coding for now.

I don't think the slamming will hurt anything for short-term driving; like days or even weeks, but you are wise not to do more than necessary. Certainly the "reverse slam" seems to cause the ISN to loosen.

Why not just swap that LP solenoid with another one? It isn't that much a chore to remove the cover is it? No fluid drain, and the gasket is usually reused.

That "A/TRANS" relay may be unique to the '91, not applicable here. I think the FP relay is one of the two side-by-side larger ones at the lower-right of that interior panel. Swap those.
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Old 09-08-2022, 04:26 PM   #22
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Default Re: Slamming Back After Input Shaft Nut And VB Repair

I've been saddled with an rsi/ct hand injury all year. Main reason I've been procrastinating. 90% of the work is one handed. Typing too lol. Public service announcement to everyone reading this - love your hands, don't abuse them!

No codes with sensors unhooked.
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That "A/TRANS" relay may be unique to the '91, not applicable here. I think the FP relay is one of the two side-by-side larger ones at the lower-right of that interior panel. Swap those.
So it's possible for a problem with the relay to cause LP solenoid issues without effecting the fuel pump/system? I'll give the swap a shot - part numbers are the same so should work.
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Old 09-08-2022, 05:00 PM   #23
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Default Re: Slamming Back After Input Shaft Nut And VB Repair

Yes, I think the FP and LP are powered through separate contacts in that single relay. Not sure, though, I will try to find confirmation.
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Old 09-08-2022, 05:31 PM   #24
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Default Re: Slamming Back After Input Shaft Nut And VB Repair

Well, it is looking like the FP and LP are powered through the same contacts, but my answer is still "yes, the FP could be OK but the LP solenoid operation not".

The trans solenoids seem to be fussy about having the full 12.6+ voltage supply, but the pump is not. It is possible poor connection anywhere in that common circuit for the FP/LP could lower voltage enough to bother LP, but FP would work OK.

Isn't there a diagram on the inside of that interior of the cover for the panel, that identifies what each fuse/relay is?
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Old 09-08-2022, 08:44 PM   #25
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Default Re: Slamming Back After Input Shaft Nut And VB Repair

You helped me unlock the Saturn esoteric knowledge level 10 power!
There is indeed a diagram on the inside of the panel and it's almost invisible. Black etching on a black background. You have to turn the panel at an angle just so to see it.

This diagram has been a labor of love past two hours - hope it helps others.

1999 Saturn SL2 DOHC 1.9L Interior Fusebox Diagram
saturnsl2_interior_fusebox.jpg

What do you think of the following plan?
A. Buy new solenoid for LP.
B. If A doesn't work swap FP/HVAC Blower relay
C. If A and B don't work swap relays back and begin pressure testing.

The rabbit hole is getting deeper.
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Old 09-08-2022, 09:34 PM   #26
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1991 SC
Default Re: Slamming Back After Input Shaft Nut And VB Repair

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That "A/TRANS" relay may be unique to the '91, not applicable here.
The 1999 S-series has it, just sayin'... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_RlNiLuJl0
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Old 09-08-2022, 10:28 PM   #27
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Default Re: Slamming Back After Input Shaft Nut And VB Repair

indeed, that "A TRANS" relay socket is there on my later gen1s, I had never paid attention to it! (manual trans, no relays in my sockets)

My schematics are not good/complete, and show nothing about that relay. Does anybody have a schematic of that circuit they can post that shows that relay? I don't want to mislead the OP any further for lack of correct info...

As to your plan, I still suggest swapping solenoids before paying for a replacement. If swapping doesn't change the symptoms, then it probably is not the solenoid. And, if we finally track this down to the VB, then you will get different relays with the replacement VB.

Yes, the TAAT is a "rabbit hole", but we can guide you in amore systematic manner than just parts-swapping if you will follow procedures we suggest. I would like you to get on to the LP tests. If somebody has a different suggestion that makes more sense to you, feel free to follow them with no hard feelings.

Once it is back in a runnable state, regardless of what else you are trying, be sure to do that easy relay swap. Just R & R of the relays may improve contact with loose or dirty pins/sockets on the relay stuff. So easy to try...
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Old 09-08-2022, 11:27 PM   #28
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Default Re: Slamming Back After Input Shaft Nut And VB Repair

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Does anybody have a schematic of that circuit they can post that shows that relay?
Can't post the schematic, but in the '91 to '96 Haynes' manual the A/TRANS relay passes power from the ring battery terminal to the TRS LP, 2, 3, 4 and TCC solenoids. It is controlled by the IGN 3 fuse in the interior fuse box. When I had my slamming problems the transmission would only have 4th gear and reverse with the "Shift to D2" light coming on.
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Old 09-08-2022, 11:55 PM   #29
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Default Re: Slamming Back After Input Shaft Nut And VB Repair

Yep, that makes sense. When all three trans fuses are pulled, killing power to the solenoids the same as a problem with that relay would, the trans will only have R and one high forward gear. The OP did not mention that there is only one forward gear, though (or did I miss that???); so I don't think it is quite the same situation.
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Old 09-12-2022, 07:15 PM   #30
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Default Re: Slamming Back After Input Shaft Nut And VB Repair

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Originally Posted by billr View Post
As to your plan, I still suggest swapping solenoids before paying for a replacement. If swapping doesn't change the symptoms, then it probably is not the solenoid. And, if we finally track this down to the VB, then you will get different relays with the replacement VB.

Yes, the TAAT is a "rabbit hole", but we can guide you in amore systematic manner than just parts-swapping if you will follow procedures we suggest. I would like you to get on to the LP tests. If somebody has a different suggestion that makes more sense to you, feel free to follow them with no hard feelings.

Once it is back in a runnable state, regardless of what else you are trying, be sure to do that easy relay swap. Just R & R of the relays may improve contact with loose or dirty pins/sockets on the relay stuff. So easy to try...
So I swapped the 5th gear solenoid with the LP. And...

It worked!

I have taken it on 3 test drives - up to 20mph, then 40mph, and then 55mph. It's been drizzling all day so decided not to push it since car wasn't driven prob over 9 months (running ethanol free gas so not worried about car sitting).

Smooth shifting so far. I wish I had known / considered that a solenoid passing ohm testing could still be a problem.

I might not be 100% out of the woods yet so I'll be cautious and maybe look into the other testing. Pretty happy for now though.
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Old 09-14-2022, 03:38 PM   #31
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Default Re: Slamming Back After Input Shaft Nut And VB Repair

Had a couple intermittent hard shifting / borderline slamming today while running errands. It was 2nd gear, maybe third too. Putting into reverse and drive was fine. I knew trans fluid was a little low - needed about 3/4 quart - so added that in walmart parking lot. That quieted it down and shifted smooth on trip home.

I have some clanging somewhere on the underside of the car. It started after the slamming - I think the slamming maybe loosening something up or broke an attachment - maybe on exhaust system? I need to inspect the underside of the car before I take it out again.

Thanks to everyone helping out so far!
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Old 09-14-2022, 04:49 PM   #32
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Default Re: Slamming Back After Input Shaft Nut And VB Repair

Which solenoid did you swap for the LP one? You said previously "5th gear", but there is no 5th gear (or solenoid) in this trans. I think the five solenoids are properly called "line, 2nd/R, 3rd, 4th, and TCC"

Point is, of course, that the LP solenoid you swapped someplace else may well be the cause of the new shifting issues.
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Old 09-14-2022, 05:07 PM   #33
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Default Re: Slamming Back After Input Shaft Nut And VB Repair

I mean 4th gear I should know better lol.That solenoid is numbered 5 in a vid screenshot on solenoid testing by user campus189 (FiremanCV on youtube). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yez2cQL1ob8

I switched LP with 4th gear. I did that so if I did have problems at least I would be able to drive using up to 3rd - that's in theory I guess. Once I do a one over I'll get back on the road and learn more.
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