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Old 05-19-2022, 08:23 PM   #21
eskimo619
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Default Re: All to common coolant leak at the intake manifold

Well the jb weld repair certainly won't win any awards thats for sure lol. Basically added enough to give more of a lip for the gasket to sit on but couldn't see a way of creating the entire wall. Im sure someone with experience could have made something happen. But as it sits the gasket rides in a groove and should hold pretty firm. Ill use some high temp rtv in that area as backup for better sealing. Should be fully cured by lunch time tomorrow then ill get it on the car. By the time I get the whole thing back together the rtv should have set enough to fire it up and check for leaks. Hopefully misfire is gone.

Just got it registered today too and will take for an inspection this weekend. It should pass but it does need some new suspension bits. Will be ordering rear struts, rear trailing arms, rear sway bar links, front control arms with the ball joints, tie rods inner and outer. Might grab sway bar bushings while I'm at it. Looks like most of it is probably original and has some decent wear. But thats the next project once its back up and running.
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Old 05-19-2022, 09:17 PM   #22
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Default Re: All to common coolant leak at the intake manifold

Hi-temp RTV? The head (and manifold) should never get over 250F; any gasket-sealer will handle that. Silicone-based RTVs, even the cheapest, are good up into the 400-500F range
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Old 05-19-2022, 10:26 PM   #23
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Default Re: All to common coolant leak at the intake manifold

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Hi-temp RTV? The head (and manifold) should never get over 250F; any gasket-sealer will handle that. Silicone-based RTVs, even the cheapest, are good up into the 400-500F range
I already have some on hand from a past project so will use it for the manifold. Overkill I know but worth using what I have. Just using a little in the area I repaired as an extra precaution. Will be installed on the car first thing tomorrow morning. Wont snug the nuts down right away as the rtv is suppost to set for an hour and then finish tightening the bolts. Have to run out after I get the manifold on but will finish the job after lunch time and get it fired up. Should be all set and eliminate the misfire. Car still ran well despite the intake leak and misfire, was mostly noticeable at idle but not while under load. Will have to see what kind of fuel mileage its getting with the mileage its covered and the maintanance ive performed since buying it.
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Old 05-20-2022, 10:32 PM   #24
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Default Re: All to common coolant leak at the intake manifold

Figured id make a last update. Got the car all back together today. Put the manifold on this morning after cleaning the mating surface really well. Put a little rtv under and on top of the gasket in the area I made the repair. Let it set for an hour before snugging the nuts. Went to 8lb ft torque on them. Read somewhere that the manual calls for 9.5 or so but many have reported they dont take much to get snug. Car fired right up and immediatly noticed a difference in how it ran. Misfire is gone so the leak is sealed. Im sure the motor is happy with a somewhat cleaned out intake manifold and new gasket, cleaned throttle body with new gasket, blew out the egr and new gasket as well, new spark plugs. Air filter is almost new. Will be pouring a bottle of fuel treatment in and filling the tank so I can start calculating fuel mileage. Curious to see what its getting with its age and 211k miles. Still have to do an oil change and trans fluid but those are easy and will tackle tomorrow.

Following that ill replace some suspension items mainly rear struts, outer tie rods and control arms/ball joints. Also trailing arms. Most bushings throughout are quite worn. But should be pretty solid in no time and hopefully last me a short while.
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Old 05-24-2022, 08:37 AM   #25
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Default Re: All to common coolant leak at the intake manifold

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Originally Posted by eskimo619 View Post
I'll be reusing my stock manifold just modifying to use the Dorman kit. Ill inspect it thoroughly before cutting it to make sure im not wasting time if it has some damage or cracks etc... I dont forsee any major issues as the job looks fairly straight forward. I will be removing the passenger upper mount and dog bone under the airbox to be able to pull the motor forward with a ratchet strap.

I dont have any special tools so will be done using basic hand tools. Really hoping the pulley bolts aren't stuck but ill keep the serpentine belt on for tension and if need be can use a small piece of wood in between the pulluee for extra tension if needed. I know its right getting to the upper bolts on the waterpump itself. But should be alright. Everything comes in tomorrow afternoon and will try to get things started. Drain coolant, replace waterpump. Then start removing all the small pieces that are in the way of getting the manifold out. I'll also remove the hood for added clearance. Looks like only one bolt holds the manifold from the underside and everything 3lae is accessed from up top. Have a couple YouTube videos saved that are pretty decent walk-thrus. One being from carsaturn when they used to sell their own fitting kit. Ive read the Dorman one sometimes comes slightly warped and needs sanding to flatten out the making surface. Hopefully mine is flat lol.

For cleaning out the inside of the manifold, could I put it in a large tote filled with hot water and some sort of degreaser and maybe use a long flexible handled bristle brush/washe mitt of some kind? I know I wont get it 100% clean but getting some crud out would be beneficial im sure.
Yes, i had the problem of the slightly warped dorman nipple and had to take it back off and plane it on some sand paper. Thought i was the only one with that issue but looks like its been a few and word has gotten out.
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Old 07-24-2022, 03:22 PM   #26
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Default Re: All to common coolant leak at the intake manifold

I just read through this thread to see what was done to fix the leak. I have a 2000 SL2 that's been leaking for years. Could never (or never tried hard enough) to find the leak until yesterday. The problem is it does not leak when it's hot. I assume the very small crack closes up when it's good and hot. The crack runs horizontally on that coolant tube on the manifold. When I first purchased this car back in 2005 the previous owner did not have the proper coolant mix in it and my car actually semi-froze up at work on a below zero day. I promptly fixed that and everything worked fine. But many years later it developed a slow leak. And when I say slow it takes about a month and a half in winter for the low coolant light to come on. It leaks a few drips overnight in the garage after the engine cools down. I wonder if that freeze-up cracked the tube.

Anyways, I noticed the discussion of getting a replacement manifold and thought I would mention this. Rockauto has GM genuine intake manifolds for these cars. $259.79 plus $9.99 shipping to my house. Yeah it will still be plastic but considering the first one lasted this long I won't have the car long enough to make a new one crack. At least I would hope.
...
When I was younger I drove a lifted 4x4 truck with over sized tires. Needed a ladder to get into it. Now in my 60's I drive an SL2 and need a ladder to get out.
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Old 07-25-2022, 03:55 PM   #27
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Default Re: All to common coolant leak at the intake manifold

@ Eskimo619:

> p0410 secondary air injection system
You might want to re-scan to see if that code still in effect. The
pre-cat (cannister welded to outlet of Ex Man) is fired up for ~ 1 minute after cold starts, by action of the electric AirPump mounted to upper frame rail , psgr side, behind headlamp assy. IFF the hoses on the Solenoid(vacuum)Valve mounted adjacent the CombinationValve atop the AC Compressor LEAK, the combo valve will not experience vacuum on its operating diaphragm, and the
pressurized air from the AirPump will not keep the ExhaustPorts clean, and will not provide airflow to the PreCat during coldstart, so the Main CatCon
under the car (behind powertrain) will not heat quickly. Same if the solenoid valve stops function, or if its electric supply is not working.

There are fuses + a relay in UHJB , and electric ground connections at
ground pak near AirPump mounting.

IFF the SAIS (Supplementary Air Injection System) is out of order for a while,
the fresh air channel in the ExMan (fed by the stainless steel pipe from the
CombinationValve), and the mating upper ExhaustPorts in the CylHead will all
become Clogged with carbonaceous petroleum deposits.

To remedy that, ExMan needs removal (disconnect Ex down pipe), use coathanger or other stiff wire (90 degree pick), screw driver blade, etc to clean ExMan & Ex ports in CylinderHead, which allows air flow to heat precat.

The better/preferred ExMan gasket is sold by Mahle & VictorReinz. It may be special ordered thru FelPro at additional cost. It is manufactured from Stainless steel at a facility in Taiwan. The standard Felpro part is likely
to damage the seal surfaces of the head (it is A-OK for 1992-1998).
Advance Auto and Parts Geek stock the Mahle "multi layer steel" part.


Note: a local long-time engine rebuilder [Thomas Machine; 201-D Brook Avenue Deer Park, NY 11729 Tel: (631) 242-5665
https://www.thomas-auto.com/ ] comments about the Gen-3 engines,
"Carbon is so hard it abrades all metals" -- I think he has seen engines
where the carbon has built up and ruined the valves....

In my case the engine was still clean, but the ExPorts & ExMan were
pretty clogged up.

I was able to reuse the collector studs in my '97. I paid the machine shop
$100 to remove the studs in my 2000. I installed ARP stainless accessory
studs in the 2000, with abundant NeverSeize (nickel base).
.................................................. ............................................


@ dj1111:
The coolant in these engines (particularly Gen-3) is important, and subject to degradation from old Dexcool, and also from ingress of combustion gases into
the coolant jacket, which can occur via weeping head gasket (which may be
more likely due to high ignition advance at low rpms in the Gen-3).

A knowledgeable forum member suggests coolant flush & refill every
20,000 Mi. Any 'boiling over' of coolant suggests: (1) coolant refresh, and
(2) addition of a GM 'cooling system seal tablet' (2 tabs suggested at each
new coolant fill). ACDelco part 10-108 ; 12378255;; SKU-O36666919363.

These were developed for the aluminum block Cadillac engines in 1980s.
Kennedy Diesel, of Loyal WI uses them in both iron and aluminum apps.

In Saturns, they seal both head gaskets and heater cores. If the coolant does
Not appear cloudy with particulates, it pays to add a tablet.

These things are So Cheap, you can afford to shop at GM Cadillac Dealers !
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Old 07-25-2022, 07:02 PM   #28
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Default Re: All to common coolant leak at the intake manifold

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@ Eskimo619:
and (2) addition of a GM 'cooling system seal tablet' (2 tabs suggested at each new coolant fill). ACDelco part 10-108 ; 12378255;; SKU-O36666919363.

These were developed for the aluminum block Cadillac engines in 1980s.
Kennedy Diesel, of Loyal WI uses them in both iron and aluminum apps.

In Saturns, they seal both head gaskets and heater cores. If the coolant does
Not appear cloudy with particulates, it pays to add a tablet.

These things are So Cheap, you can afford to shop at GM Cadillac Dealers !
Are these the same thing "Bar's Leaks Radiator Stop Leak Tablets"? They look the same and are available at local parts stores.
...
When I was younger I drove a lifted 4x4 truck with over sized tires. Needed a ladder to get into it. Now in my 60's I drive an SL2 and need a ladder to get out.
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Old 10-08-2022, 10:56 PM   #29
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Default Re: All to common coolant leak at the intake manifold

I took a short piece of the same size three-quarter inch inside diameter heater hose and using some Dawn soap, slid it over the cracked hose stem. Of course you have to cut a slot in the supporting rib that is molded to the heater hose stem. I also cut a very small notch in the hose where it hits the small port for the coolant overflow rubber hose. I did that so the end of the repair hose, would fit tightly against the head and cover the three-quarter stem all the way. I know most people use a Dremel tool but I just used a hacksaw blade held in my gloved hand so I would have good control for the cut. As you can see I used 57 hose clamps side by side and alternated their position so The cams of the hose clamps would not rest side-by-side which keeps the hose clamps from fitting tightly together side by side. Of course I tightened the hose clamps and left enough room at the end of the hose stem for the heater hose to attach. The split in the hose stem, the crack, was of course next to the casting seem on the drivers side of the car; on the outside of the hose stem where you could see it. The crack was not all the way along the length of the hose stem. It was sort of in the middle, meaning, the part of the hose stem near the head and the part of the hose stem where the heater hose attaches, did not have a crack. I have done a similar repair like this on a Chrysler K car that worked well. I ordered the Dorman 902-100 repair kit from e-Bay but I am going to try this repair first. I will let you know how it works out. Happy Saturning.
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Old 10-09-2022, 12:44 AM   #30
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Default Re: All to common coolant leak at the intake manifold

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Are these the same thing "Bar's Leaks Radiator Stop Leak Tablets"? They look the same and are available at local parts stores.
more or less, they are... but i would be cautious with use of those tablets. be aware they are a band-aid, and in excess they are quite harmful. on rings, the car i grew up in and my first saturn, it's clear that someone (or multiple parties, who knows) overused them before it became my car, and one or two winters after owning the car i discovered i had no heat whatsoever! as a novice, i did the basic things... namely a coolant flush and replacing the thermostat. it was no help, and i went a winter and a half with no working heat whatsoever. i recall getting hot water from a convenience store to defrost the windshield on more than one occasion, a foolhardy move that could have cracked the glass but somehow didn't, probably due to the ice buildup absorbing the thermal shock.

during that second winter (i did say, "and a half") i was well on my way down the path of saturn fanaticism, and by then i'd bought phoebe and janus, as well as my t-boned parts car. i elected to just pull the heater core out of the parts car and install it in rings, at the time oblivious to the fact that rings' oem core was completely clogged with ginger root particles from those tablets. in hindsight, a direct flush of the heater core while still installed would probably have cleared it out, but i was learning and it didn't occur to me. replacing a heater core while laying on a patch of ice in sub-freezing temperatures is not my idea of a pleasant repair. of course, the heat worked great after installing it and doing a (difficult during the winter when your garden hose is frozen solid, i must say) coolant flush.

i'm never one to waste a repairable part, so i took rings' oem core into the kitchen and spent a fair amount of time flushing it with hot water one way, then the other, back and forth until a ridiculous mass of congealed ginger root came pouring out. lo and behold, i have a good-as-new spare heater core after that! it still sits in my parts stash and i believe it's about to be installed in penny as that car seems to have a leaking heater core.

a bit of a long-winded story, but the point is; don't just dump leak seal tablets in and hope. one tablet should do the job, two is the maximum in my mind, and adding additional ones will just start creating problems that never existed before trying to band-aid a shark bite uh i mean sealing issue. ultimately, the solution for a leak is to fix the leak... not to dump in particulates that hide it.


ps. all that said, i'm a huge believer in the slime tire sealant with rubber particles in it. that stuff really does work miracles! but the air in the tire doesn't need to flow around and it can't exactly get clogged up, now can it? not to mention the centrifugal force that causes it to coat the inner surface of the tire... there are good applications for particulate-based sealers and then there are band-aids that allow the wound to fester, as it were.
...
rings-1996 sl2 ~215k mi
phoebe-1995 sl1 ~250k mi
janus-2000 sohc2 ~190k mi
tethys-1994 sw2 ~302k mi
rip mimas-wrecked 1996 sw1-trailer
pandora-1999 sc2
dione-1998 sw2
penny [iapetus]-1997 sw2
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Old 10-09-2022, 12:47 AM   #31
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Default Re: All to common coolant leak at the intake manifold

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waldo View Post
I took a short piece of the same size three-quarter inch inside diameter heater hose and using some Dawn soap, slid it over the cracked hose stem. Of course you have to cut a slot in the supporting rib that is molded to the heater hose stem. I also cut a very small notch in the hose where it hits the small port for the coolant overflow rubber hose. I did that so the end of the repair hose, would fit tightly against the head and cover the three-quarter stem all the way. I know most people use a Dremel tool but I just used a hacksaw blade held in my gloved hand so I would have good control for the cut. As you can see I used 57 hose clamps side by side and alternated their position so The cams of the hose clamps would not rest side-by-side which keeps the hose clamps from fitting tightly together side by side. Of course I tightened the hose clamps and left enough room at the end of the hose stem for the heater hose to attach. The split in the hose stem, the crack, was of course next to the casting seem on the drivers side of the car; on the outside of the hose stem where you could see it. The crack was not all the way along the length of the hose stem. It was sort of in the middle, meaning, the part of the hose stem near the head and the part of the hose stem where the heater hose attaches, did not have a crack. I have done a similar repair like this on a Chrysler K car that worked well. I ordered the Dorman 902-100 repair kit from e-Bay but I am going to try this repair first. I will let you know how it works out. Happy Saturning.

that's, uh, a lot of hose clamps! but i have to say it's the proper gauze-and-wrap bandage to the band-aid i mentioned in my prior post. not really a long-term solution but it should do the job 'til your kit arrives.
...
rings-1996 sl2 ~215k mi
phoebe-1995 sl1 ~250k mi
janus-2000 sohc2 ~190k mi
tethys-1994 sw2 ~302k mi
rip mimas-wrecked 1996 sw1-trailer
pandora-1999 sc2
dione-1998 sw2
penny [iapetus]-1997 sw2
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