2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

[BrandonKastning]

Hello Saturn Experts,

I am not sure what exactly is happening and not certain anyone can point me in the right direction.

My car:

2001 Saturn L300 3.0L V6

2-3 days ago I was driving just fine and went to the store and came back. All was good. Then the next morning I was heading out quickly and didn't warm it up.

The oil was okay at this time, no leaks and properly filled.

Took off going maybe 25-30 MPH and made it maybe 2 blocks before the car died and wouldn't stay running after starting it.

I broke down on the side of the road and put my hazards on. I proceeded with the following steps (very amateur I know):

1) Tried starting it (starts then within seconds stops).

2) Checked under the hood; panicked and started putting more oil in.

3) Checked the fuses (thought the (L4) fuel injector fuse and (L4) AR fuse) was removed.

This resulted in me attempting to repair fuse mounts that didn't originally exist (based on a post forums/showthread dot php?t=180756 here by fdryer) who as usual, provides all sorts of awesome diagrams and advise.

I ended up walking home and grabbed paper clips to create a "fuse bridge"; jammed the paper clips into the fuse slots and pulled the radio 10AMP fuse + a spare 10AMP and attempted to try and get them to hold in there.

Attempted to start it again; to no avail, same results.

4) Called a Tow Truck, came back to my house and started troubleshooting it since.

Troubleshooting steps and what I have learned so far:

a) I over-filled the engine oil (the dipstick is showing overage) and without it running I cannot drive the car up onto Rhino Ramps. I do not know any other humans really, so I cannot ask for help and I do not have a jack and cannot afford one at the moment.

b) Pulled the "fuel pump" fuse and replaced it with the 15AMP spare as it was really burnt looking (the middle was okay though).

c) Attempted to follow the instructions here on this forums/showthread dot php?t=123627 thread to clear flooding after I attempted to pump the pedal maybe 10 times or so. Possibly in the upwards of 15.

Results of holding the pedal down and cranking to clear the engine of flooding:

- Started and the engine rev'ed up very high and then it dropped and stopped again.

Passlock security engaged and I attempted to use a jump box (350 AMP) to bypass passlock security (which I am used to doing when something glitches).

-- I never fully disabled it per forums/showthread dot php?t=235528 this thread on my old account which I lost access to and never fully completed it while I was homeless and since then.

Thanks a bunch as usual!

P.S - Still have a 1/2 tank of gas.

Happy New Years and God Bless,

Brandon

[fdryer]

Some imagination to jack up the car without a hydraulic jack would be using the spare tire scissor jack. On level ground or at least blocking wheels from moving on slight inclines, jack up the car, layer some lumber to build up as another safety to back up the jack and/or place the tire under the car next to the jack. In my youth, I made wooden ramps and placed the tire under the car for backup in case the ramp fell apart. Ramps never failed on old cars with steel bumpers. They were reliable for years, finally disassembled when a hydraulic jack replaced them. Old school meets new school.....

How many miles on this car? Fuel filter replaced every 100k miles? Spark plugs replaced every 100k miles? Is security always on, flashing quickly or off when starting? GMs Passlock security flashing (as opposed to blinking once every few second) during starting means injectors are disabled to prevent engine running. As long as security isn't flashing, you can continue troubleshooting this problem.

If fuses in the engine bay are fine, an easy way to determine whether this is a fuel or ignition problem would be spraying starting fluid into the throttle body. Removing the intake air tube, spray starting fluid into throttle. Either the engine fires up to indicate spark is working and the engine runs with temporary fuel or not (indicating loss of spark). No starting with starting fluid points to an ignition problem. Starting up seems to indicate spark isn't an issue with fuel a possibility (low fuel pressure, intermittent pump/pressure, strangled fuel filter, etc). Fuel pressure should be between 39-49 psi with a borrowed fuel pressure gauge from Autozone or Advance Auto.

Clearing a flooded engine requires holding throttle wide open (pumping the gas pedal doesn't work at all) during starting. This tells the ecm to stop injector operations while the starter is cranking the engine until any excess fuel is blown out, drying out the cylinders where spark can ignite what's left. Flooding imples plugs are soaked and wet plugs short out spark to aggravate flooded engine starting. A flooded engine only needs two or three starting cycles (approximately 5-10 seconds per starting cycle) to expel excess fuel from cylinders. Your descriptions doesn't seem to be about a flooded engine.

L300s use drive by wire throttle - no steel cable connecting pedal to throttle, all electronics. The electronic pedal sends signals to the ecm. The ecm commands throttle plate operation to the electric motor to open/close the throttle plate.

[Rj 2000 LS2]

Have you considered changing your Crank Position Sensor? We had one go bad intermittently over a few weeks time. When I took out the old one, there was metal stuck to the sensor. Put the new CPS in and it worked great.

[BrandonKastning]

Originally Posted by fdryer

Some imagination to jack up the car without a hydraulic jack would be using the spare tire scissor jack. On level ground or at least blocking wheels from moving on slight inclines, jack up the car, layer some lumber to build up as another safety to back up the jack and/or place the tire under the car next to the jack. In my youth, I made wooden ramps and placed the tire under the car for backup in case the ramp fell apart. Ramps never failed on old cars with steel bumpers. They were reliable for years, finally disassembled when a hydraulic jack replaced them. Old school meets new school.....

How many miles on this car? Fuel filter replaced every 100k miles? Spark plugs replaced every 100k miles? Is security always on, flashing quickly or off when starting? GMs Passlock security flashing (as opposed to blinking once every few second) during starting means injectors are disabled to prevent engine running. As long as security isn't flashing, you can continue troubleshooting this problem.

If fuses in the engine bay are fine, an easy way to determine whether this is a fuel or ignition problem would be spraying starting fluid into the throttle body. Removing the intake air tube, spray starting fluid into throttle. Either the engine fires up to indicate spark is working and the engine runs with temporary fuel or not (indicating loss of spark). No starting with starting fluid points to an ignition problem. Starting up seems to indicate spark isn't an issue with fuel a possibility (low fuel pressure, intermittent pump/pressure, strangled fuel filter, etc). Fuel pressure should be between 39-49 psi with a borrowed fuel pressure gauge from Autozone or Advance Auto.

Clearing a flooded engine requires holding throttle wide open (pumping the gas pedal doesn't work at all) during starting. This tells the ecm to stop injector operations while the starter is cranking the engine until any excess fuel is blown out, drying out the cylinders where spark can ignite what's left. Flooding imples plugs are soaked and wet plugs short out spark to aggravate flooded engine starting. A flooded engine only needs two or three starting cycles (approximately 5-10 seconds per starting cycle) to expel excess fuel from cylinders. Your descriptions doesn't seem to be about a flooded engine.

L300s use drive by wire throttle - no steel cable connecting pedal to throttle, all electronics. The electronic pedal sends signals to the ecm. The ecm commands throttle plate operation to the electric motor to open/close the throttle plate.

fdryer,

Thank you very much for your detailed response. I am being overloaded with more things than I can count in my personal life, however I wanted to respond quickly due to gratitude and appreciate your time greatly.

I have taken a video of the starting problem as it currently sits.

The service engine light is stuck solid when starting and then turns off before it kills itself at 1500 RPM.

Afterwards the oil light goes solid red before turning off.

The video is on YouTube here: youtu dot be/3-e6K05dTn8

I was able to secure some emergency funds and purchased a Hydraulic Jack (Will arrive late next week). I have 1 x 2 Ton Jack stand and I am going to be picking up another one within a day or two hopefully.

I also picked up a Fuel Pressure Gauge, 5 Quarts of SAE 5W-30 oil, USB OBDII Dongle (However the Amazon reviews said it only works if the engine is started.)

I checked the fuses and when I pulled the fuel pump fuse, it looked scorched with black markings on the silver metal parts that are to be pushed into the fuse box.

I replaced the fuel pump 15A with a spare 15A that was in the fusebox and looked inside the Chilton Manual and it advised to listen for the fuel pump to start which I did hear in the video that I filmed. So that's good news on the fuel pump I am guessing.

Some other fuses look scorched also; however the inside part's are still connected. (So it appears they are good, but I am not certain).

I will have to purchase fuses to do a full panel replacement I am guessing along with a oil filter.

Regarding fuses, I am trying to find per the Chilton guide is for the "Powertrain Control Module (PCM)" -- I am not sure where to reference to find this fuse.

I have been swapping a few to determine if it is labeled something completely different since I cannot find anything close to that name.

I swapped the following so far:

- 15AM (BCM CLUSTER) -- GOOD
- 10A (BCM 2) -- GOOD

The one I haven't swapped yet is:

- 30A (IP BATT RT) -- NOT SURE YET - Don't have a replacement

I also haven't tried this one:

- 10A (CONTROLS B+) -- NOT SURE YET - Battery Died on me as per video

I don't remember if I tested this one:

- 10A (BCW ECM/ CRUISE) -- NOT SURE - I don't recall


Thank you again!


- Brandon

[BrandonKastning]

Originally Posted by Rj 2000 LS2

Have you considered changing your Crank Position Sensor? We had one go bad intermittently over a few weeks time. When I took out the old one, there was metal stuck to the sensor. Put the new CPS in and it worked great.

Rj 2000 LS2,

Thank you for sharing this possible solve with me. I wasn't aware of this sensor. I appreciate the good key!

- Brandon

[fdryer]

I'm having trouble with sorting out that YouTube link. Possibly early morning fuzziness and no longer allowed to have any caffeinated fluids. I'll try later.

Whether using the car battery or jump box to startup, GMs Passlock security works in one of four modes. Off, on, blinking once every few seconds and flashing quickly. Flashing quickly with ignition on or off means security is actively enabled; Passlock disables injector operation - the car will never run without injectors operating from the ecm (which disabled it from the body control module detecting a theft or incorrect Passlock security sequence). Your main concern is whether or not security is flashing. Flashing security = injectors disabled preventing the engine from running. Any of the other three modes is inconsequential and does not affect engine starting/running.

Fuses are relatively simple to examine. Either they're blown with the center S curved fuse element missing with some burned black marks inside the see thru plastic housing or they're fine, intact with the S element visible. The two exterior blades may exhibit corrosion in the form of dark oxidation but rarely if ever burn marks. Blade fuses are difficult to remove due to mechanical engineering to create steadfast design in fuse holders to increase maximum electrical conductivity against weathering effects to erode electrical connections. Difficulty in removing fuses means the fuse holders are performing up to design standards to ensure electrical connectivity. Surface oxidation means little if you can see distinctive scrape marks on each blade, indicating mechanical contact between blade and pairs of metal teeth grabbing each blade.

While difficult to search these forums, there are snapshots of your engine fuse box and cover with embossed labeling inside the cover. If I'm not mistaken, the ecm is labeled for engine fuses. If you have your owner's manual, review it for information.

[BrandonKastning]

fdryer,

Thank you for clearing up that confusion regarding the Passlock Security mode(s).

After reviewing the Video again Passlock Security light remains off the entire time. (Regarding the YouTube link... I replaced "." with "dot") Since I cannot post links.

I took a picture of my overflow on the dipstick. I wanted to share it here since I have a feeling this is a major contribution to the Service Engine Light that is stuck on at the moment.

If this is true; do you think that my Spark Plugs have been jeopardized; or should I be fine since it starts to 1500 RPM's before it chokes out?

I am trying to decide if I need to replace my Spark Plugs before doing a full oil change with filter?

Thank you again!

~ Brandon Kastning

[fdryer]

1-still can't use the typed link with 'dot' removed and a period in place or after 'youtube'. Perhaps the link isn't correct.

2-with Passlock security OFF, this problem isn't a security issue and likely related to either a fuel or ignition problem. Fuel means several things are needed; fuel pump pressurizing to around 40 psi, fuel filter not clogged (replaced every 100k miles), injectors pulsing from ecm commands. Ignition means; the ecm is generating ignition timing signals to generate injector pulses during starting and running engine operations.

Mileage of this car? Fuel pressure is expected at the fuel rail. Pressurized fuel should spray fuel when the fuel test valve is depressed when ignition is ON. Sometimes you can hear the quiet hum/hiss sound of the fuel pump inside the car when ignition is turned on - the ecm powers the pump for 2-3 seconds then shuts off if the engine isn't started. Starting turns on the fuel pump from crank sensor timing signals sent to the ecm to turn on fuel pump, initiate ignition for spark and pulse injectors.

3-its difficult to tell if your oil dipstick has water droplets from rain or from a coolant leak. If oil is full and doesn't have coolant droplets (water doesn't mix with oil), continue with troubleshooting. Whether or not oil is low or full doesn't generate any error code. Oil on the dipstick looks fine.

4-spark plugs should be replaced every 100k miles to ensure continuous reliability of long term platinum plugs.

The engine starting up and running briefly indicates fuel and spark are making the engine run. Why the engine doesn't continue may be elated to the check engine light that retains one or more error codes. Autozone is one place for free readings. If you know anyone with an OBD II reader, ask to borrow it or have them read the code(s) for you, perhaps buying lunch or something in return. Error codes stored in memory are waiting for any reader to decode. Harbor Freight as well as many stores sell inexpensive readers under $30.

Oil and filter replacement are usually separate from spark plug replacement since plugs last well over 100k miles (using recommended platinum plugs). 4k-7k miles or when the oil change light (yellow oil can symbol) turns on at ignition on time.

Plugs are rarely damaged from a lack of oil, fuel or spark. Your concern is why the engine won't stay running. Is there enough fuel in the tank? Is fuel pressure lower from a fuel filter long past 100k miles and strangling fuel flow? Can you find an Autozone or Advance Auto and use their free tool loan program to borrow a fuel pressure gauge? The fuel rail on the top of the engine has a black plastic cap covering the fuel test valve. A fuel pressure gauge connects to this valve for measuring fuel pressure as soon as ignition is turned on without starting the engine.

[BrandonKastning]

Originally Posted by fdryer

1-still can't use the typed link with 'dot' removed and a period in place or after 'youtube'. Perhaps the link isn't correct.

2-with Passlock security OFF, this problem isn't a security issue and likely related to either a fuel or ignition problem. Fuel means several things are needed; fuel pump pressurizing to around 40 psi, fuel filter not clogged (replaced every 100k miles), injectors pulsing from ecm commands. Ignition means; the ecm is generating ignition timing signals to generate injector pulses during starting and running engine operations.

Mileage of this car? Fuel pressure is expected at the fuel rail. Pressurized fuel should spray fuel when the fuel test valve is depressed when ignition is ON. Sometimes you can hear the quiet hum/hiss sound of the fuel pump inside the car when ignition is turned on - the ecm powers the pump for 2-3 seconds then shuts off if the engine isn't started. Starting turns on the fuel pump from crank sensor timing signals sent to the ecm to turn on fuel pump, initiate ignition for spark and pulse injectors.

3-its difficult to tell if your oil dipstick has water droplets from rain or from a coolant leak. If oil is full and doesn't have coolant droplets (water doesn't mix with oil), continue with troubleshooting. Whether or not oil is low or full doesn't generate any error code. Oil on the dipstick looks fine.

4-spark plugs should be replaced every 100k miles to ensure continuous reliability of long term platinum plugs.

The engine starting up and running briefly indicates fuel and spark are making the engine run. Why the engine doesn't continue may be elated to the check engine light that retains one or more error codes. Autozone is one place for free readings. If you know anyone with an OBD II reader, ask to borrow it or have them read the code(s) for you, perhaps buying lunch or something in return. Error codes stored in memory are waiting for any reader to decode. Harbor Freight as well as many stores sell inexpensive readers under $30.

Oil and filter replacement are usually separate from spark plug replacement since plugs last well over 100k miles (using recommended platinum plugs). 4k-7k miles or when the oil change light (yellow oil can symbol) turns on at ignition on time.

Plugs are rarely damaged from a lack of oil, fuel or spark. Your concern is why the engine won't stay running. Is there enough fuel in the tank? Is fuel pressure lower from a fuel filter long past 100k miles and strangling fuel flow? Can you find an Autozone or Advance Auto and use their free tool loan program to borrow a fuel pressure gauge? The fuel rail on the top of the engine has a black plastic cap covering the fuel test valve. A fuel pressure gauge connects to this valve for measuring fuel pressure as soon as ignition is turned on without starting the engine.

fdryer,

Thank you for that. I will update this thread with the information you mentioned and I was lacking.

To do:

- Locate Shrader valve to test fuel pressure
- Use the Gauge to check to see if it's 40 psi
- Await My jack and locate a jackstand (I am awaiting pick-n-pull to replenish their supply so that I can have a matching 2 ton jack stand set)


What I have done since:

- Installed a USB OBD II Interface Connector ($20.85)
Source: Amazon - (Non-referral link):
amazon dot com/gp/product/B01N22B3FQ/
Confirmed works in Windows (I used a Trial version of VMware Workstation 15 and installed a base install of Windows 7 Home Premium) -- Installed the drivers and without the engine running (Just the key over) it was able to connect to the car and download the codes. It has a nice save option so it outputs the codes to a text file.

(It worked; however the Make, Model displayed different. Showed up as a Ford Focus Zetec -- However I recognized the AT High Vault Signal code (Since I got the car) in 2017.

The codes it displayed are:

P0443 - Purge valve circuit fault

U1262 - SCP Data Link Fault / Module: Instrument Cluster (I believe this is why I was having strange lights flash on my Instrument Panel). The far right light for RPM's wasn't working correctly. It was going off and on at random times.

P0460 - Invalid fuel tank level message from instrument cluster.

(This DTC may be caused by :Fuel sender circuit failure | Faulty or damaged instrument cluster module. Run the instrument cluster diagnostics)

===END PCM DTC P0460===


My known Transmission Problem (I will tackle this on another thread when it's time; provided I beat this).


P0113 - IAT Sensor Circuit High Input


--------------------------------------------------------

Module: Powertrain Control Module

Diagnostic Trouble Code details

IAT Sensor Circuit High Input

This DTC may be caused by :

Open Circuit

Signal shorted to VBATT or vref.

Sensor Previously disconnected.

Faulty Sensor

Faulty or damaged PCM.

Extreme low ambient temperature.

Improper connection

Incorrect VREF.

SIGRTN open circuit

===END PCM DTC P0113===

P0602 - PCM programming error

Module: Powertrain Control Module


-------------------------------------------

P0174 - System Too Lean Bank 2

Diagnostic Trouble Code details

System Too Lean Bank 2

The PCM monitors the adaptive fuel table to ensure fuel control system components do not vary from their nominal values. The fuel control strategy within the PCM uses the adaptive fuel table to compensate for normal wear or aging of fuel control system components. The code is set when the PCM can no longer compensate for additional changes in the fuel system.

This DTC may be caused by :

Suspect Low fuel pressure.

Crankcase Ventilation System

Suspect air intake system leak.

Suspect engine vacuum leak.

Suspect HO2S21 circuit.

Suspect PCM.

A blocked fuel filter will restrict the flow of fuel to the pressure regulator. If the fuel supply to the fuel filter is O.K. the fuel filter may be blocked.

Obstructed or dirty fuel injector(s)

Suspect EVAP EVAP canister purge solenoid.

Leaking exhaust system.

===END PCM DTC P0174===


--------------------------------------------

B2308 - Interior Air Temperature Inlet Motor Failure

Module: Electronic Automatic Temperature Control

Diagnostic Trouble Code details

Interior air temperature sensor - inlet motor failure.

Visually inspect the wiring and connectors from ATC module to the interior air temperature sensor motor assembly.

Manually check that the motor turns freely.

-------------------------------------------

B1994 - Side Air Bag Circuit Open, Front Driver Side

Module: Restraint Control Module

Diagnostic Trouble Code details

Side Airbag Open Circuit (Drivers)

-------------------------------------------

B1877 - Safetybelt Driver Retractor Circuit Failure

Module: Restraint Control Module

Diagnostic Trouble Code details

Safetybelt Driver Retractor Circuit Failure

-------------------------------------------

B1318 - The battery voltage level is too low.

--------------------------------------------

B1318 - The battery voltage level is too low.

Module: Restraint Control Module


--------------------------------------------

The output log mentions the following note:

"DTCs that start with 'U' are faults which occur during module-to-module communication."

"Modules should never be replaced based only on a 'U' code. These codes do not always indicate a problem, and can be caused by normal diagnostic functions, carried out on the vehicle."


Thanks again everyone!

[BrandonKastning]

fdryer,

Fuel Pressure Check - Tested 40 psi exactly! Thank you again sir!

I was going to attach pictures to the post. However, the Manage attachments is saying Page not found at the moment. Perhaps it's a server load / maintenance issue at the moment.

Best Regards,

Brandon Kastning

[Rj 2000 LS2]

When everything becomes a sensor issue and there are numerous electronic errors at once it is time to look at V+ and Ground for potential common problems. Injectors will foul if the ground is bad. Bad Sensors can draw down Vsource causing other sensors to report erroneous data. It is suspect that so many seemingly unrelated codes are being reported. Its as if a mouse is living under the hood consuming the wiring. You could also be looking at main bus connections filled with water or corrosion. Had the car spent any time under water?

I would spend less time chasing any one code and look for common areas. Test the grounds for voltage losses between points and battery ground. Back butter the connectors on each sensor to see if they are getting V+ as well as true ground. Something is fishy and I believe it is V+ leakage or a bad ground.

[fdryer]

Mileage on this car? Recommendations are to replace timing belt, spark plugs and water pump at 100k miles. When the timing cover is removed for access to the timing belt, replacing it and the water pump is prudent. Spark plugs, factory platinums, are good for 100k miles but should be replaced to ensure long term reliability. Upper intake parts are removed along with both coil packs before plugs are accessible.

With so many error codes not pointing to one problem, let's start from the beginning.

Was the check engine light ON when problems popped up or afterwards when replacing parts? In addition to suggestions to check main power and connections, resetting the error codes may help eliminate false errors. If there are genuine faults, they'll return on their own. Resetting error codes can be as simple as using your reader's reset function or disconnecting battery negative.

[BrandonKastning]

Current Stats:

Fuel Pressure: 40 (cranked) / 19 (key-over)
Fuel: 1/2 Tank
Battery: Working
Current Codes: None w/ Previous Codes (Voltage / Transmission [which has been on-going; causing intermittent shifting issues until code resets])
Current Condition: Vehicle Sitting after a Tow
Engine: 3.0L V6
Engine Mileage: 144K

What I have done since it's been towed:

A) Replaced all fuses with new ones
B) Checked the fuel pressure (40 cranked) / 19 with key over
C) Oil change
D) Oil Filter change
E) Fuel Filter Change
F) PowerTrain Control Module (PCM) changed from stock "version II" to a Pick-N-Pull 03 LW300 "version III" which has been properly VIN Programmed via youtube dot com/watch?v=8cqqVu8bHOM which worked perfectly as the expert explained.
G) Used an Oreilly's OBDII reader and cleared codes with a jumpstart from my kind neighbor Nichole.

It starts and looks as if it's going to idle; the service engine light remains on during this step; then it gets to 3000 RPM's when I am pushing the gas peddle a bunch before seizing. Can't seem to get past this part.

I checked again for the fuel pressure and created this video as to what's happening at this time frame of this repair.

YouTube Video: 01-27-2020
youtu dot be/BA9B0sCjXpY

Without knowing for certain; a couple things are popping in my head.

1) Could it be the alternator? Hence; the not being able to keep alive. (However; given the weak RPM/idle -- it seems as if it has something to do with something else.)
2) Could it be a sensor that isn't throwing a DTC code?

Also to note: The shrader valve puked a bunch of fuel upon removal as opposed to exiting the outpour tubing - Seemed like it defeated the purpose and I used a brand new fuel pressure kit from amazon. It wasn't necessarily cheap either. I was wondering why it would do that... regardless of the pressure readings.


Thank you!

P.S. - This forum has been down; I posted on a couple other boards. Hopefully nobody takes offense.

Someone said it's low fuel pressure?

All it's doing now is starting with a jump from a block and then it just dies off after I try and pump the RPM's up. The check engine light holds on only while cranking / semi-started.

[Rj 2000 LS2]

What is the link to your video? All I get is a site where woman are singing songs.

[trottida]

Originally Posted by Rj 2000 LS2

What is the link to your video? All I get is a site where woman are singing songs.

https://youtu.be/BA9B0sCjXpY

[BrandonKastning]

trottida,

Thank you for keying RJ in. Still cannot post links.

[Rj 2000 LS2]

Changing the oil is about as informative as if it was a full moon. Seriously, why include such completely unrelated information? Do the same test, let someone else start the car and get the camera under the hood and watch what is going on. And do it several times over. Back butter some sensors and read voltages to see what is happening to isolate the problem. Are the fuel injectors getting full voltage? I have seen fuel injected engines behave like this when the battery voltage is low and/or there is a bad ground. Measure for voltage between the negative terminal of the battery and engine chassis. If you find voltage that amount is not going across the injectors and they can foul if running at 10 volts instead of 12 volts.

It could be the Crank Position Sensor is covered in metal debris. The CPS is the heart beat or clock that runs everything. The throttle position sensor could be bad or intermittent. There could be problem in the vacuum throttle controls or some condensation in the hoses. Has the fuel filter been changed?

Have someone else start the car and get a can of carb spray and while it is just started spray the carb spray on the vacuum lines. Do it over and over again till you eliminate the possibility of any vacuum leaks. Don't just spray the entire engine, but just around the specific vacuum line hoses. If you have a leaky hose, the engine will rev.

Trying to shot gun this from the couch and replacing unrelated parts isn't really going to fix it. Sometimes when you batch replace parts that were not broken you can introduce a new and different problems which simply moves the diagnostic bar and totally screws you.

What was the first problem that happen? What was the original problem before you changed any parts? Try to narrow your focus on to one specific part and until you determine that part or sensor is working properly... don't move on and change another part.

When you do determine the problem... Please, report back to us!

[BrandonKastning]

Originally Posted by Rj 2000 LS2

Changing the oil is about as informative as if it was a full moon. Seriously, why include such completely unrelated information? Do the same test, let someone else start the car and get the camera under the hood and watch what is going on. And do it several times over. Back butter some sensors and read voltages to see what is happening to isolate the problem. Are the fuel injectors getting full voltage? I have seen fuel injected engines behave like this when the battery voltage is low and/or there is a bad ground. Measure for voltage between the negative terminal of the battery and engine chassis. If you find voltage that amount is not going across the injectors and they can foul if running at 10 volts instead of 12 volts.

It could be the Crank Position Sensor is covered in metal debris. The CPS is the heart beat or clock that runs everything. The throttle position sensor could be bad or intermittent. There could be problem in the vacuum throttle controls or some condensation in the hoses. Has the fuel filter been changed?

Have someone else start the car and get a can of carb spray and while it is just started spray the carb spray on the vacuum lines. Do it over and over again till you eliminate the possibility of any vacuum leaks. Don't just spray the entire engine, but just around the specific vacuum line hoses. If you have a leaky hose, the engine will rev.

Trying to shot gun this from the couch and replacing unrelated parts isn't really going to fix it. Sometimes when you batch replace parts that were not broken you can introduce a new and different problems which simply moves the diagnostic bar and totally screws you.

What was the first problem that happen? What was the original problem before you changed any parts? Try to narrow your focus on to one specific part and until you determine that part or sensor is working properly... don't move on and change another part.

When you do determine the problem... Please, report back to us!

Rjs,

It was related due to the fact after it broke down around the corner; I over-filled with an additional quart of oil not knowing what to do in a pinch.

It might take a month for me to understand what you wrote and get back to you!

Thank you very much for your time and expertise.

- Brandon

[Rj 2000 LS2]

I am trying to help. Extra oil should cause an engine to stop running. It might leak, but that's about it.

I ask plenty of simple questions on this board, so don't ever feel like you can't ask a question. There are plenty of people here that might know a quick answer to a simple question. We are all learning every day!

[floridasl22002]

Your car is starting and running. Correct?

If that's so then you are getting the 3 things you need for the engine to fire 1) Gas 2) Spark, 3) Air.

Battery condition these days does affect a lot of the electronics and their function and things can get squirrelly if the voltage is below what it should be.

If your battery is kaput, then in all likelihood it may not have enough power to start the engine or the engine will sound tired trying to start. But it's starting.

Once the engine is running the alternator takes over the task of producing voltage as well as recharging the battery. If the alternator is not producing the voltage output, then it will kill the battery as well as itself. If the car is driveable, take it to an autostore and they can check it. Alternatively, get hold of a code reader that can check alternator and battery conditions. Failing that, remove the alternator and take it an autostore for them to check.

Your V6 engine has a drive by wire throttle instead of a traditional cable. There are two sensors; one at the pedal end and another at the throttle body end. One communicates to the other where the pedal is and adjusts the throttle accordingly. Sometimes these sensors fail and the if the pedal end is bad, the throttle has little idea what to do. Again, because these are sensors, voltage affects their operation.

If you are doing this job totally on your own, you are on a bit of a hiding to nothing. As the previous poster suggested, you need someone in the drivers seat and you need to be under the hood.

As for a vacuum leak, there is what is called the 'cigar method'. Basically you need a cigar (I don't know why a cigar and not a ciggie but there we are). Using a vacuum intake point, the vacuum system will suck the cigar smoke and any leak will show elsewhere with the smoke coming out the leak area. It's a smoke test simple as that.

One final suggestion and that is as great as this forum is for answers and suggestions, everyone is miles away from you and thus online and not with you. far too often weekend mechanics such as ourselves will spend an inordinate amount of time trying to reinvent the wheel and essentially throwing parts at the situation. Those parts costs and your time quickly mount up. There comes a time when getting a professional mechanic to review the situation can be cheaper in the long run. If the car is not driveable, then get a mobile mechanic.

If you are sick and not getting any better, do you continue to research the web and self medicate or do yu go to the Doctors?