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Old 05-03-2021, 04:49 PM   #1
Lightfoot2002
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Default Fuel economy chip?

Hello All:
I recently came across an ad for a fuel economy chip. EFFuel is the name. It claims, by connecting the the car's OBDII connection, an increase in fuel mpg by up to 25%.
Has anyone tried this product? Will it damage the Saturn's computer?
Thanks for your advice.
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Old 05-03-2021, 04:58 PM   #2
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Default Re: Fuel economy chip?

I suspect it will only damage your financial status and give you a reputation as a gullible person!
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Old 05-03-2021, 06:17 PM   #3
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Default Re: Fuel economy chip?

"...up to 25%" probably means that most cars see negligible results while very specific cases see the 25% increase.
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Old 05-03-2021, 06:52 PM   #4
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Default Re: Fuel economy chip?

If you search for EFFUEL scam every scam report is actually another disguised advertisement. And is there really a way to reprogram your PCM through the OBD2 port? I'm thinking no.
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Old 05-04-2021, 12:35 AM   #5
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Default Re: Fuel economy chip?

Googled EFFuel and cannot find a single complaint against it as Waiex191 found. What appears as sites using key words such as 'scam', 'consumer complaints', 'does it work?', 'consumer scam', etc, seem to be fronts for this product to steer unsuspecting people into reading whatever is written. Each supposedly separate website seem to explain how this device works and then draws you into buying one or several at discount prices without any negative comments. I didn't go further but a guess might be when attempting to buy this questionable device, each supposedly separate site may have the same email, web address for ordering and..............returns if not satisfied.

Consumer Reports doesn't have this product under scrutiny, yet, but do present past scams............

Whether drivers accept it or not, the very best fuel economy device, proven in everyday driving and documented in a few sites, is the driver's right foot and link to a brain. Right foot and brain. Every EFI system using an engine computer has tuning for the best range of performance right off the assembly line. Increasing fuel economy relies on less right foot in every driving scenario. Search for hypermilers and try separating the phony ads from serious drivers squeezing the most miles per gallon without mods or the minimum needed without spending or throwing away money. On the opposite end is high power, wasting fuel for stoplight racing by simply flooring the gas pedal. Since the question isn't asking how to gain power, discussing tuning for more power isn't needed here.

Your right foot and serious thinking of how to increase fuel economy from understanding how engines work may save you more money than buying devices with zero guarantees.
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Old 05-04-2021, 02:15 AM   #6
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Default Re: Fuel economy chip?

If you got every gadget and additive made for boosting gas mileage and used thehem all at once you would have to stop every 20 miles and drain the overflowing gas tank.

That is - if half the crap actually worked.
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Old 05-04-2021, 09:01 AM   #7
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Default Re: Fuel economy chip?

In case you were still on the fence on buying, it's a scam, or ineffective at best.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer
Whether drivers accept it or not, the very best fuel economy device, proven in everyday driving and documented in a few sites, is the driver's right foot and link to a brain. Right foot and brain.
So much this. Look at my avatar. My '02 SC2 is EPA rated 1 mpg than my '98 SL2, due to improvements in the head. But look at the actual MPG (no changes in the commute). For some reason, I was driving the gray sedan differently than the bright red coupe

[pedantic mode]
Saturn's PCM is encrypted. My info is several years old, but to my knowledge it has not been decrypted enough for any tuning (changing spark timing maps, fuel maps, etc.) There is a thread by SabreCatPuck(?) and OldNuc in the Mods forum with more info, discussing that - the discussion moved over to a specialized forum for GM PCM/ECM decrypting and tuning.

It's possible to do some reprogramming via the OBDII port using a Tech II or clone like Tech2Win (see http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=234551). However, all these are doing are replacing the existing encrypted code with new encrypted code.

For example, you can change the PCM to think the engine is an SOHC or a DOHC. But that change is a complete set of data - If you say the car is a DOHC, you get the DOHC spark timing advance map and the DOHC fuel map. You cant edit or modify those maps. And you cant say that you have a DOHC engine with the SOHC 5-speed transmission, because that combo was never offered by the factory so there is no code package for that (the car will drive fine with that combo, for for '96 and up, you will lose cruise control because the PCM will detect the wrong RPM for the speed/gear and think you are having mechanical clutch problems or something)

Everything on a car is a tradeoff. Some of the tradeoffs are: power, fuel economy, cost, and reliability. There's other stuff like noise, vibration, harshness (NVH), size, safety, etc. Saturn could have gone with a 2.2 liter engine for more power, but lost some MPG. Or had a 1.5 liter engine, good MPG but lower power. Getting above 2.3 or so adds vibration, but you get even more power. You can reduce the vibration and have a smooth, large 4 cylinder by adding counter rotating weights but that adds weight and costs $8 per engine because Mitsubushi had a patent on it. Coulda had a V8 . . .

If Saturn could have increased the S series fuel economy without changing other stuff, like reliability, they would have done so. That way, instead of merely competing with Honda Civic and Toyota Corolla with a roughly comparable car, they would have eaten their lunch with a better car.

Aaaannnndddd.. . . it would have cost Saturn $0 to do that. Because Saturn was already developing timing and fuel maps for the new 1.9 engine in their cars, so no additional development cost. No need for an OBD dongle, either, because it would have just been in the original PCM code.
[/pedantic mode]

There are some ways to increase MPG in your SC2, but they involve tradeoffs (you don't get something for nothing - TANSTAAFL)

You can swap out a SOHC manual transmission into your car (or just the 5th gear) - the gearing was for fuel economy. If your car currently has an auto transmission, your fuel map remains for an auto trans, and you will have a perpetual transmission error code. If you currently have a manual trans, you will lose cruise control (there's a way to get it back, see the 5th gear swap thread) and your acceleration may be slower in 5th. If you live in a hilly /mountainous area, you may actually lose MPG from having to downshift for power.

Heck, you could swap in both a SOHC engine and trans. The tradeoff between SOHC and DOHC engines is, SOHC is more fuel efficient, DOHC has more power at mid to higher RPM.

the Saturn is known to run slightly rich. You can gain some MPG by using a hot air intake. The PCM will retard timing and decrease fuel to keep the temp down and prevent your valves from burning up. Retarded timing and decreased fuel also means lower power. Dont recall for sure but I think emissions went up, too.
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Old 05-04-2021, 09:01 AM   #8
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Default Re: Fuel economy chip?

obdii fuel saver scam video link
It appears to be the same model, the video shows what could be inside and why it can't possible work. The device is nothing more than a LED light blinker and battery drainer.
EEV blog is the goto place for electronics.

Last edited by laser3kw; 05-04-2021 at 09:07 AM.
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Old 05-04-2021, 02:18 PM   #9
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Default Re: Fuel economy chip?

^ ^ Wonderful link......... to the very same device? As a nerd with some electronics knowledge, I watched the entire video. No holding back as this man takes it apart and discusses in details this sophisticated...........led timer(?) with not one but three leds for 'entertainment' to curious eyes. From an educated scammers point of view, why one led when three with flashing leds should blind anyone into believing this thing works.

My personal guess is the chip is nothing more than a 555 chip used everywhere. The level of sophistication by removing silk screened identification markings makes it more compelling to believe it will increase fuel economy. More knowledgeable electronic techs may correct me or offer additional info. Deliberately removing the chip info silk screened onto every chip made in the world helps in identification, marketing and protecting against unlawful use. Military applications may remove ID info for national security purposes while general use of chips may remove markings against identification from prying eyes intent on reverse engineering circuits. It's not too much to imagine industrial espionage to steal trade secrets but for scam purposes may hide the true identity of this chip, revealing its true nature as something it isn't.
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Old 05-04-2021, 02:27 PM   #10
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Default Re: Fuel economy chip?

I (vaguely) recall OldNuc responding to someone's post, writing
"It's not too hard to get highway mileage into the low 40's....";
I thought by changing the fuel map on a PROM ... but i dunno.

And to Chaos' point(s), you would decrease 'performance' and/or invite
chance of burned valves.
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Old 05-04-2021, 03:14 PM   #11
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Default Re: Fuel economy chip?

That video was awesome!
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Old 05-05-2021, 12:46 PM   #12
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Default Re: Fuel economy chip?

A lot of fuel economy comes at the cost of power and a lot of power comes at the cost of fuel economy. Maybe not 100% of the time, but these cars were already built with fuel economy in mind. Basic maintenance will ensure good fuel economy.

It's like those tornado things you put in the path of the air intake. In theory it sounds like a good idea... buuuut as soon as that "vortex" hits a bend in the plenum, it instantly stops that swirling motion.

I've also heard of people trying to cool their gas tank to improve fuel/air mix, but it's already under the car and anything you do to try and cool it will be negated by the air rushing over it while driving anyway.

Unless you know how to flash the ECM and can modernize the entire fuel system on a 20+ year old car AND have access to a dyno to show you real world numbers, it's simply not worth it.
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Old 05-05-2021, 01:32 PM   #13
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Default Re: Fuel economy chip?

Point of fact; no one has ever broken into S-series PCMs despite several promising with extensive knowledge. Initial opening threads were never followed up for many reasons, never fulfilling desires to tune one. None. The S-series 1.9L engine is a basic 4cyl made for an econocar with no more than 124hp. My guess is the pcm isn't worth GMs engineering for future tuning so it's locked without providing any way to tune them. The opposite are Corvettes, Camaros and other GM models with open ECMs allowing tuning.

Search for cheapybob's threads. He was able to make small mods to achieve close to 50 mpg. Others made 40mpg with little to zero mods.
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Old 05-06-2021, 12:03 AM   #14
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Default Re: Fuel economy chip?

Y'all forgot to listen to Obama when gas was going up and go out and pump up your tires. Keep your ears open because Biden is due to give us all that same good advice any day now.

There, I just expressed my Fuel Economy Chip.
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Old 05-06-2021, 05:22 AM   #15
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Default Re: Fuel economy chip?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dummo View Post
Y'all forgot to listen to Obama when gas was going up and go out and pump up your tires. Keep your ears open because Biden is due to give us all that same good advice any day now.

There, I just expressed my Fuel Economy Chip.
How about we keep politics out of this and stay on topic, huh?
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Old 05-06-2021, 06:37 AM   #16
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Default Re: Fuel economy chip?

Let's see, gas prices went up with Obama and went down with Trump. What has both have anything to do with the S-series question of fuel economy? I agree, leave politics out of these forums. There's a political forum to post views, not here in vehicle forums.

Lightfoot2002 asked about a fuel economy chip.

Back in 2006, cheapybob achieved 53.4 mpg; http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74808
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Old 05-06-2021, 12:00 PM   #17
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Default Re: Fuel economy chip?

I'll concur with fdryer about the prudent use of the right foot and brain. Visit Ecomodder.com for driving tips to get more miles out of a gallon of gas.
Attached is my mileage log for the past month with mpg highlighted on the right of the entry. These numbers are achieved by driving the speed limit, anticipating stops, not using WOT from a standstill. Vehicle is using Amsoil synthetics in the engine and transmission, and ethanol free gas with octane ranging from 89-91. Car rides on the stock 175/70/14 tires, 35 psi in front, and 30 in the rear. Tires have about 55k miles on them, so they're acting as LRR tires. When I pull up to the gas pump, and see what the previous purchaser paid to fill their tank, I'm thankful to be driving a Saturn.
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Old 05-06-2021, 01:36 PM   #18
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Default Re: Fuel economy chip?

Nothing generic is going to help economy unless it's also risking running lean.


Real programmers and/or chips alter the specific programming of the factory PCM, and the calibration of that PCM is key as factory programming is far from a set thing.

At times a real programmer will give a MPG boost, but usually due to shift points in an auto tranny. Any others that give a boost most often do so at the expense of power.



For the OP, I'd suggest that you are already seeing on the high side of MPG for these cars, having seen some of your testing posts. The right foot is indeed the biggest factor, as others have found out. You might be able to eek out a little more power via Cheapybob's warm air intake (at the cost of power), or from DIYguy's IAT mod. IIRC you already had the higher fifth gear in your SL2.
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Old 05-07-2021, 12:10 AM   #19
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Default Re: Fuel economy chip?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cujoe_da_man View Post
How about we keep politics out of this and stay on topic, huh?
Wanting to keep politics out of things is just a form of hyper-political wokeness. I'll express anything I wish to express any time and any where I feel like. This is called freedom of speech and this is America. If you don't get what I say and how it pertains to the topic at hand then thats just a failure of communication on my part or yours or maybe both.

The word economy is found in 'Fuel Economy' and if we ignore the importance of the people we put in charge of this country and how it affects our lives even down to the point of how many dollars worth of gasoline we pump into our Saturns then we are lost and ineffective. All of us are getting 33% crappier gas mileage by dollar cost in our Saturns today compared to a year ago thanks to who's in charge. Those are real numbers and I believe that pointing this out in this particular thread carries a lot more weight than someone might care to admit.

If you disagree try to come up with a constructive argument instead of simply saying 'that kind of talk doesn't belong here' after all this is Saturnfans, not Twitter or Facebook.
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Old 05-07-2021, 05:10 AM   #20
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Default Re: Fuel economy chip?

Yeah, so this is also considered a private forum and thus the mods can can and will stop you from saying anything you want because that is allowed by law.

It's the reason why other sites like Youtube, Twitter, Tik Tok, Discord (shall I continue?) do not have to abide by constitutional laws regarding free speech (or any other constitutional law).

Does that make it right? No, but it is the law.

Your comment about Obama has nothing to do with the OP asking about a fuel economy chip and is "off topic" of this discussion (and technically my current reply is the same, but I'm making a point).

And if you want to get even more technical, your comment was also a "woke" comment about politics since you brought it up in the first place as a snide remark of someone you don't like and/or agree with.

Furthermore, if you want to play this game, your "right to free speech" of your opinion also extends to my opinion that no one wants to hear your opinion of Obama and it is also my opinion that you are wrong in even bringing it up in the first place.

The door swings both ways here.

So. Let's try this again. Keep the subject on topic.
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