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Old 02-24-2007, 04:59 PM   #1
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Default MSN Users Rate 2007 VUE over 2007 Honda CR-V

MSN User Reviews 2007 Saturn VUE

9.7 Overall Rating

9.5 Styling
9.6 Performance
9.4 Interior
9.7 Quality
9.8 Recommendation

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MSN User Reviews 2007 Honda CR-V

9.3 Overall Rating

9.7 Styling
9.2 Performance
9.1 Interior
9.4 Quality
9.3 Recommendation

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MSN User Reviews 2007 Hyundai Sante Fe

9.5 Overall Rating

9.7 Styling
9.1 Performance
9.5 Interior
9.5 Quality
9.5 Recommendation

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MSN User Reviews 2007 Toyota RAV4

8.6 Overall Rating

8.5 Styling
8.6 Performance
8.2 Interior
8.7 Quality
8.7 Recommendation



The actual auto critcs as usual whine and complain about the gaps in the polymer panels, and the poor interior fit and finish inside the VUE. The actual owners of the vehicles that own them and drive them daily are better over all judges.

Advantage: Saturn VUE is the best in it's class...
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Old 02-24-2007, 06:46 PM   #2
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Default Re: MSN Users Rate 2007 VUE over 2007 Honda CR-V

In the Honda you get a limp 4 banger
In the Saturn you get a kick *ss Honda V6
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Old 02-24-2007, 10:09 PM   #3
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Default Re: MSN Users Rate 2007 VUE over 2007 Honda CR-V

Nothing against the VUE, but user ratings are always suspect, especially when the sample isn't random.

Simply posting this here influences VUE owners to go take that poll and give the VUE high marks.

But, beyond that, people buy a vehicle because they like it. If they don't like it, they're not likely to buy it. So when you survey owners you're surveying people who like a vehicle enough to pay for it.

The main thing that can reduce scores are weaknesses that aren't apparent from a test drive.

Add it all up, and vehicles that the general public doesn't think much of tend to get high scores on surveys like this one. The Pontiac Aztek even won some owner satisfaction awards, and that was with a random sample.
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Old 02-25-2007, 03:53 AM   #4
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Default Re: MSN Users Rate 2007 VUE over 2007 Honda CR-V

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkaresh View Post
Nothing against the VUE, but user ratings are always suspect, especially when the sample isn't random.

Simply posting this here influences VUE owners to go take that poll and give the VUE high marks.

Add it all up, and vehicles that the general public doesn't think much of tend to get high scores on surveys like this one. The Pontiac Aztek even won some owner satisfaction awards, and that was with a random sample.

Every other auto has the same internet advantage as the VUE, so I would say it's an even playing field. The same data I read and posted here is read by all other makes of cars. The only advantage Saturn has is most of their owners really like their cars and the better than average support Saturn typical gives you.

It's ironic. Saturn used to be called a A+ car company selling a B+ car. Now we have A+ cars and Saturn is becoming a B+ company.

The Aztek was a very bizarre styled vehicle, but I bet it was very practical and did it's job fairly well.
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Old 02-25-2007, 11:34 AM   #5
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Default Re: MSN Users Rate 2007 VUE over 2007 Honda CR-V

The weaknesses of the Aztek were readily apparent at purchase.

I think you nail it when focusing on the enthusiasm of Saturn owners. If automakers were ball teams, Saturn would have some of the most avid fans. This will be reflected in surveys like the one at MSN.
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Old 02-25-2007, 04:09 PM   #6
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Default Re: MSN Users Rate 2007 VUE over 2007 Honda CR-V

I don't know how the Vue could get any more "Homer" votes than the Japanese brands. Nearly all the Jap car owners I know are are so smug and arrogant about their cars being sooooo much better than my American cars, that I doubt they could resist a chance to tell the world about it.
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Old 02-25-2007, 05:59 PM   #7
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Default Re: MSN Users Rate 2007 VUE over 2007 Honda CR-V

Well, most of the votes are 9s and 10s out of 10.

It's kind of like everyone's kids being above average. Especially mine
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Old 02-25-2007, 06:28 PM   #8
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Default Re: MSN Users Rate 2007 VUE over 2007 Honda CR-V

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkaresh View Post
Nothing against the VUE, but user ratings are always suspect, especially when the sample isn't random.

........
Well, the site your pumping, the sample isn't random either....I like the MSN poll, it certainly isn't a valid random poll, but the comparison between them is telling....even if they all scored high, some are higher than others, and it is this difference that tells a story. Your getting MSN users who own a particular brand of car, one they like, and they are being asked to rate it. Of course, they will rate it highly, because they paid for it and don't want to seem like fools, secondly, if they had any pronblems, thirdly, the car didn't live up to it's hype (new car buying euphoria). The fact the VUE didn't take much of a hit compared to the other makes, ranking the highest tells me that it retained more goodwill than the other makes. It could be due to the factors I mentioned or others, but the bottome line, is that it scored higher than its competition, relative speaking. I don't know about Saturn having the most avid fans....that is pure speculation. I see a lot of other 'make specific sites' with diehard fans....
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Old 02-25-2007, 06:55 PM   #9
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Default Re: MSN Users Rate 2007 VUE over 2007 Honda CR-V

I'm not conducting an opinion poll. I'm asking people to report when their car goes into the shop, with a clear definition of what counts. I do as much as I can to keep subjectivity out of responses. When surveying opinions, it's very important to have a random sample.
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Old 02-25-2007, 08:43 PM   #10
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Default Re: MSN Users Rate 2007 VUE over 2007 Honda CR-V

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkaresh View Post
I'm not conducting an opinion poll. I'm asking people to report when their car goes into the shop, with a clear definition of what counts. I do as much as I can to keep subjectivity out of responses. When surveying opinions, it's very important to have a random sample.
Well, as I said before, you need random VIN's to get an accurate picture...most of the folks who came to this site had problem cars....which dare I say, is a likely precursor to more problems...again, those with no problems are likely not to report to your site....
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Old 02-25-2007, 09:34 PM   #11
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Default Re: MSN Users Rate 2007 VUE over 2007 Honda CR-V

The difference here is you're writing based on gut feel and a desired outcome, while I've actually got data.

For example, how do you know that people who have had problems in the pasts are likely to have problems in the future? Do you have any evidence to support this, or is it just what you've always heard?

I've never seen any data either way. I do plan to look into it.

I can conclusively say that your gut is way off in thinking that only people with problems join my panel. In fact, there is not a single model where the majority of owners have reported a repair trip. In a few cases only a single owner has. I track the percentage of owners who've reported no problems, and for most models it's between 70 percent and 90 percent.

Even if people were more likely to report a problem the month they join--and I've seen no evidence of this yet--down the road this will have no bearing. As the average amount of time people have been members gets longer and longer, any impact of reporting a repair in the first month will get lower and lower, as an increasingly small percentage of responses will come from new members.

The MSN poll is far less methodologically sound. People often love or hate such polls depending on how much they like the outcome.
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Old 02-25-2007, 10:08 PM   #12
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Default Re: MSN Users Rate 2007 VUE over 2007 Honda CR-V

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkaresh View Post
The difference here is you're writing based on gut feel and a desired outcome, while I've actually got data.
Again, not to begrudge your efforts, but you aren't getting a random sample, unless you randomaly selected VINs, then got the owners to participate...on this board, you've got the 'resident' (like me), then you got the first timer with a problem. I see the latter much more than the former...and you are asking people from that 'pool' to join your study. .
Quote:
For example, how do you know that people who have had problems in the pasts are likely to have problems in the future? Do you have any evidence to support this, or is it just what you've always heard?.
Your right, that is my gut feeling. Also, it is borne out of wisdom...those who have problems are usually the town criers, they incessantly cry about everything. I'm sure there is some study to supprt this....when I worked in retail, we saw these people often, always complaining...like JD

Quote:
I track the percentage of owners who've reported no problems, and for most models it's between 70 percent and 90 percent.
What is the true failure rate for new owners? Again, none of us know, but I suspect it would be much higher...say near 95%....

Quote:
Even if people were more likely to report a problem the month they join--and I've seen no evidence of this yet--down the road this will have no bearing. As the average amount of time people have been members gets longer and longer, any impact of reporting a repair in the first month will get lower and lower, as an increasingly small percentage of responses will come from new members.
I agree with the latter part of your arguement, but to say conclusively that an owner with a problem, joining your group will not have another problem is tenuous at best. I know in a few fields that there are two types of customers, ones you never hear from (i.e. satisfied), and those 5% (approx) who keep coming back, complaining about this or that.....the ones who consume the resources of the company.
Quote:
The MSN poll is far less methodologically sound. People often love or hate such polls depending on how much they like the outcome.
Very true. But I was pointing out the relation among the various model owners....not looking at each individual model (which appears artificially high). It appear Saturn owners are much happier with thier VUE than the others, for whatever reason. And even though the numbers are close in some cases, the difference, however minute, is quite telling...
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Old 02-25-2007, 10:20 PM   #13
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Default Re: MSN Users Rate 2007 VUE over 2007 Honda CR-V

I am currently focusing on shop trips that include a successful repair. This counteracts the potential problems you refer to in two ways:

1. People who report lots of issues tend to have more issues per shop trip, rather than more shop trips. People save up the small stuff for a trip that must be made to correct a more serious issue, the sort of thing anyone would fix.

2. If something was repaired, then the dealer has agreed that there was a problem with the car. There are many cases where the dealer does the "they all do that" or "that's just not fixable" thing. In most of these cases I feel that the consumer is right, there is a problem, but focusing on the successful trips does yield more robust results.

Again, I am not studying people's opinions, but how often their car breaks. There's much less need for a random sample in my case, given what I'm studying and the methods I use.

On the problem rates, the average problem rate in Consumer Reports' research is about 0.18. For me, it's about 0.6, and thats counting trips, not problems. The difference is that I have people report all problems, not just the ones they FEEL were serious, to reduce the play of bias.

But even with my higher problem rates, for just about any model the majority of owners will have no or very few problems. It's too soon to say how high a percentage will have no problems for, say, three years, but I do think it'll end up being much higher than people think, even for domestic products.

It is clear from my data that few if any of the people participating are the sort that complain endlessly about their cars. And, you know, some cars really do have a lot of problems.
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Old 02-25-2007, 10:47 PM   #14
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Default Re: MSN Users Rate 2007 VUE over 2007 Honda CR-V

How else is he going to get people to join, melissam? Expect them to find it on their own. It's not like he's advertising a Saturn here.

What do you mean by "random sampling?" Pick what he wants himself? So he could technically wind up picking all the good models of one model and the bad of another?
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Old 02-26-2007, 01:54 AM   #15
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Default Re: MSN Users Rate 2007 VUE over 2007 Honda CR-V

The way I could do random sampling is buy a list of registered owners from R.L. Polk and then survey a random selection of them. I'm not sure if Polk has email addresses. I'd probably have to use snail mail, at least to get their email. It's a very expensive, tedious process. If I was using such a process, the results would not be free to participants.

And in the end, even if I had J.D. Power's name recognition (which I don't) only about a quarter of these people would respond. (J.D. response rate for a recent study was 23%.)

So even after the trouble and expense of a random sample, you've got to wonder if any sort of bias influenced the people who did repond vs. those that did not. Unlike with TrueDelta's process, people responding to J.D. Power's surveys know what they're going to report at the time they decide whether or not to participate.

I'll take the biases built into my methods over the biases built into theirs any day.
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