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Old 06-13-2002, 04:06 PM   #1
toeachitsown
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Default multi point nitrous

i was looking through a jegs magazine and saw a sneaky pete nos system..it says 1-2 tenths off quarter times and 3 or 4 mph..thats probably on a big v8 car so it probably does a lil better on a saturn..anyway i also noticed a fitting that has 4 outlets, i guess i need more hose and all types of other crap, but, basically im considerin puttin the sneaky pete in with multi point injection..putting four nitrous injectors or whatever on each runner...anyway what would be the best possible location to feed the nitrous..has anyone done this before...and what kind of gains should i see...opinions?
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Old 06-14-2002, 02:34 AM   #2
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What your describing is known as a "Direct Port Nitrous System". Simply because it directly inject nitrous at the point of the fuel injector.

Its an incredibly good N20 setup if you can get it to work right. Its not as simple as bolting up a sneaky peat system, which is generally a "Dry" shot, engaged prior to maf, which is what you were generally describing.

Scott.
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Old 06-14-2002, 01:37 PM   #3
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i know its not easy..but my friends a mechanic..certified and all that crap...his dad has a nice shop so i'm str8...the thing is ...a friend of mine who knows a lil about cars but lies all the time said that i cannot put a wet nitrous kit in my car..he said i have to use a dry kit..he said a wet kit will blow my engine unelss its heavily modified...forged pistons..ect...but then again this is a very small shot...20 or 30...is this bad for my engine..am i gonna risk blowin it...is the difference between a wet nitrous kit and dry nitrous kit the fact that the wet one injects the nitrous by the injectors so its being put directly into the engine and a dry kit kinda is installed past the throttle body so its not bein shot in wet...its more of a gas that gets in there and it cools the incoming air...i dunno i know nothing about nitrous...any help would be great..plus ive seen pics of that guy with 20 lbs of boost and a 50 shot of nitrous and it shoots the nitrous through the top of the intake manifold....anyway also would shooting a small shot into each runner cause a significant power increase to the point that it could blow my engine?
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Old 06-15-2002, 02:07 AM   #4
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Well, your a bit mistaken about what wet-dry-and direct port N20 setups actually do. So i'll start there.

A dry shot is sprayed normally just prior to the throttle body, or in a location where the MAF (mass air flow) sensor can pick it up. The maf MUST pick up the dry shot in order to equally add the proper amount of fuel to keep you from blowing up.

A wet shot refers to a Nitrous System that not only injects nitrous, but also adds the amount of fuel needed to keep you safe at the same time. It does not rely on the MAF to add fuel because it does it itself. A wet shot can than be shot closer to your intake than a dry shot.

A direct port setup uses a wet shot (includes equal parts of fuel) at the point of combustion, equally per cylinder. The advantages of a DP setup are 1) that its extremely powerful 2) you can run larger shots of N20 3) it directly goes to the point of combustion equally, so no difference in amount of N20 per cylinder.

Now, on to N20 itself. N20 is not used for a cooling purpose, like many may think. Nitrous Oxide as a molocule contains 2 parts oxygen to 2 part Nitrogen. So when Nitrous reach the point of combustion, it "explodes" releasing the 2 parts of air. Nitrous feeds your motor more air, simple as that. More air = more power any way you cut it.

I am absolutely sure the kit you saw in Jegs is a simple wet shot, NOT a direct port shot. So spraying to each runner, you won't be doing. DP systems are extremely expensive and rarely if ever mass produced.

I'd reccomend you run a dry shot in the ball park of 20-30, and see how that goes. Systems come with swapable jets, so you can eventually go larger if you like.
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Old 06-15-2002, 02:18 AM   #5
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i saw some fitting that was a 1 to 4 adapter thingy from nos for like 50 bucks...looks like it could be used to spray thru four tubes equally...would it be hard to create my own dp...anyway i guess ur right, i should just get a kitl...but again where exactly does it spray...or do you choose the location
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Old 06-15-2002, 02:36 AM   #6
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whoa there evo,

nitrous is composed two molecules of nitrogen to one molecule of oxygen (hence N2O). the nitrogen acts as a 'buffer' to keep your engine from detonating with all of the extra oxygen that you just introduced into the cumbustion chamber. N2O does cool down your engine also in that when it chemically seperates, it cools down to a negative degree of temperature (i can't remember what it is off hand. i think it is -271 degrees.) most satties that are on nitrous are runnnig a wet kit. some people say they have squeezed a 75 shot wet kit on a stock motor but i personally think that is pushing it. a lot of people run a 50 shot without any problems whatsoever. hope that helps. DO NOT go with a direct port unless you are running it on a race motor.

--grumpy
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Old 06-15-2002, 02:54 AM   #7
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Lol.

Thats what you get for typing to fast, a half hour after leaving the bars.

Your exactly right about the buffer, but I wasn't really going into depth. And it does cool things down, but thats not its main goal.
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Old 06-15-2002, 08:52 AM   #8
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A "dry" kit is not recommended on our cars. The injectors have a very hard time supplying enough fuel to keep up with the nitrous and you can run into a dangerously lean condition quick. Better to shoot a "wet" kit giving the engine the extra fuel it needs without having to overwork the injectors.

Our cars do NOT HAVE a MAF. We use a MAP, therefore you can shoot your nitrous at any point along the intake path (within reason of course).

I don't know why you guys are so against the direct port approach. Direct port applications are much safer than pre-throttlebody setups in that they give each cylinder the same amount of fuel and nitrous. Pre-throttlebody injection gives the #4 and #3 cylinders (the ones nearest the t-body) the lions share of the fuel and N2O making for uneven power production across the engine thus causing undue strain on the pistons, rods and crankshaft.

Anyone care to prove me wrong?
Abe.
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Old 06-15-2002, 03:05 PM   #9
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Abe is correct for all years up to '00 in which the equal length intake takes care of equal distribution of the NO2. Another issue is that in those early year cars the Fuel goes in one end of the rail, travels the full lenght of the rail and then is distributed to the injectors, so not only is #4 getting the most air mixture (plus it's a bigger cylinder for and getting EGR) it gets the lowest pressure fuel to the injector.

The best way to solve this is to run the N02 injector at least 12" from the throttle body so it can properly mix everything together. As for the lean on #4 problem, it's still going to happen no matter what and you just have to keep an eye on it if you are pushing more than a 50 shot.
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Old 06-15-2002, 04:44 PM   #10
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Thanks for the additional info Adam. I can't believe I overlooked the 2000 up DOHC models. What makes my oversight especially bad is the fact that I'm tearing down that 2000 DOHC in my garage. Doh!

Abe
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Old 06-15-2002, 06:18 PM   #11
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You guys pretty much said it all but there is a great article on the subject at:

http://www.saturnspeed.com/nitrousinfo.htm

enjoy.
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Old 06-16-2002, 03:10 AM   #12
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wait a sec...my intake manifold has the fuel injectors right by the ports on the runners...it doesnt have to travel far...also where do you get the extra fuel...you gotta add fuel injectors and inject the nitrous?...where is the gas supplied from? and would shooting the nitrous close to the ports cause a significant increase over one shooting nitrous farther along the intake system...im lookin for the direct port shot but a fairly small one...
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Old 06-16-2002, 08:50 PM   #13
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The fuel is drawn from the fuel line. In my 98sl2 there is a test port on the fuel line just where it connects to the fuel rail (just under the throttle body. On the wet kit the fuel is drawn from the fuel line and a soelonoid is used to spray the fuel through the nossle. The direct port is great, It hits harder. However, tuning it and changing the jets to regulate HP level is more difficult. (Accessing the jets) In most single nossel wet kits you use 2 jets. One for fuel one for nitrous. On DP there are 8 jets, 2 per cylinder. I reccommend the NX wet kit. It is so easy to use and quite reliable. I pumped over 300 lbs of nitrous through a stock motor and had no loss of power. Still ran the same ET's. THe motor did eventually blow .. Craked #4 piston. The fuel solenoid quit flowing and BOOM. NX rebuild the solenoid for 50 bucks. Now every year I send the solenoids back to get rebuilt. Just to be on the safe side. When I tore down the blown motor I was pleasantly suprised to notice that there were still crosshatches on the inside of the cylinder walls. The motor internally looked perfect, except for the cracked piston. If you do get the DP system you may need a dyno to tune it. I don't know if there is a system out there where they tell you ecactly what jets to use. If you do get the DP keep us informed about what you go through.
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Old 06-17-2002, 12:23 PM   #14
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definetley...its not gonna be for a month tho, now yall have me thinkin about the nitrous express kit..but i really want equal distribution of the n2o...can i make the nitrous express wet kit into a dp system...and where should i put each injector for a dp..i obviously already have 1 fuel injector on each runner...so for dp i gotta add 2 more right behind the stock injectors on each runner?...sounds liek a tight squeeze...what if i put one nozzle per runner for nos and just like two at the top of the intake manifold fer gas...or should i just put them all in at the top...anyone ever done a dp system for saturn?...and will the nitrous express system shot thru dp be too much?whats the lowest setting
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Old 06-17-2002, 12:26 PM   #15
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oh yeah btw...i already have an intake manfiold from another dohc saturn in my boys garage...we ported it out and put it in that cleaning tank thing and all...as soon as i get my wider t.b. ill match it and then prep the manifold for the nitrous...so it should be pretty easy to drill holes ect since the intake were gonna use is already out....again any ideas..recommendations...lemme hear what everyones already done with nitrous and intake manfolds and what results yall got
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Old 06-17-2002, 01:04 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by N2orocks
.....motor and had no loss of power. Still ran the same ET's. THe motor did eventually blow .. Craked #4 piston. The fuel solenoid quit flowing and BOOM. ......
Hehehe.... I rest my case.
BTDT some 8 times now thank you very much!

Never did it on N02, but it's fun none the less to open up the engine and see the #4 piston broke again at the intake valve relief.

See N02 is safe. It's the damn hardware that failed that's not safe.
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