2001 sc2 overheating, now it's not turning on

[odiaz1831]

Hey guys, first time posting here. Thanks for all the knowledge I have already received. My SIL gave me her 01 sc2. She gave it to me telling me there was a minor coolant leak and it slammed into reverse. Assumed it was the reverse slam.

I finally get the car and have been trying to find the leak, but I can't. It's right behind cylinder 1. It's also extremely small, as in it rarely drips. Sometimes a few drops, other times it leaks big. Yesterday while coming home my temp gauge was right on the edge of red. Kept fluctuating right there. I checked if the fan was on and it was running. Ran an OBDII test and came up with camshaft sensor code for cylinder 1. I know these don't have then so I heard I could chafed the ignition wires. That didn't work.

I woke up today and trid to see if the temp gauge was back to normal. But I started it up after a whole night of cooling down. Instantly shot up to almost red and the fan turned on instantly. However, the car did not start. Just the accesories. All it did was crank and crank. Any tips? I heard it might be the ECTS, which I plan on replacing but Ive never heard of no start with a faulty ects sensor. Thanks in advance!

[fdryer]

1-Remove the coolant sensor and examine it. Its either the original round nosed faulty one or flat nosed brass one.

2-A faulty coolant sensor may cause flooding where spark drowns and fails to ignite flooded cylinders with more fuel than air. This may occur from neglecting to replace spark plugs, worn plug wires, incorrect spark plugs, lost compression or faulty coolant sensor. Winter hard starting may add additional problems since colder engines need a richer fuel mixture for starting. After several failed starting attempts the engine can flood quickly. Flood clear mode is explained in owner's manuals as holding throttle wide open/gas pedal to the floor during subsequent starts that should result in a sputtering startup and more air dilutes flooded cylinders. The alternate method is removing all spark plugs and and starting - this blows out excess fuel from cylinders. Putting dried out plugs and restarting should result in instant startup.

[fdryer]

3-The engine leaking is a mystery. Early cast heads suffered from porous leaks, solved at the dealer level with ginger tablets. The tablets dissolved in hot coolant, circulated around until the loose fibers plugged microscopic leaks from pressure to seal. Bars Leak powder or tablets may help while not clogging the cooling system.

[odiaz1831]

Originally Posted by fdryer

1-Remove the coolant sensor and examine it. Its either the original round nosed faulty one or flat nosed brass one.

2-A faulty coolant sensor may cause flooding where spark drowns and fails to ignite flooded cylinders with more fuel than air. This may occur from neglecting to replace spark plugs, worn plug wires, incorrect spark plugs, lost compression or faulty coolant sensor. Winter hard starting may add additional problems since colder engines need a richer fuel mixture for starting. After several failed starting attempts the engine can flood quickly. Flood clear mode is explained in owner's manuals as holding throttle wide open/gas pedal to the floor during subsequent starts that should result in a sputtering startup and more air dilutes flooded cylinders. The alternate method is removing all spark plugs and and starting - this blows out excess fuel from cylinders. Putting dried out plugs and restarting should result in instant startup.

I tried the clear flood mode today in the morning and still couldnt get a start. Maybe I didnt do it right. Ill try your new advice after work, thanks. I was also reading about the F5 failure, is that a common problem for my year saturn?

[fdryer]

With zero starting (engine turns over but doesn't fire up), remove spark plugs and examine them. Either they're wet with fuel or not. This needs to be verified as you'll be diagnosing several things at once doing this. Fuel on plugs means fuel, pressure and injectors are working. No fuel means a fuel system issue. Don't ignore removing and examining the coolant sensor. The connector may be fouled too, along with a faulty sensor.

With plugs removed, a spark test can be performed and easier on the battery (zero compression) as the starter will spin up the engine faster. After noting spark plug firing order, remove plug wires from coils and use the starter to spin the engine - spark should be jumping across both coil towers.

[fetchitfido]

Your 'mystery' leak solved: http://www.carsaturnstore.com/2000-2...ld-repair-kit/

Don't reward Dorman for copying this guys work and exporting the hard work to China.

3rd gen DOHC's will require this fix more and more as the stupid plastic intake manifold age's and cracks. Earlier DOHC's and all SOHC's had aluminum intake manifolds and so were immune to this failure.

From a coolant leak to over heating to now a no-start I'd guess that a nice easy $60 fix is now a rather annoying $400+ head replacement. A compression test should be done before any more money/time is spent on diagnosing it.

[Zeebins]

Originally Posted by odiaz1831

I was also reading about the F5 failure, is that a common problem for my year saturn?

It's only a problem if you're using the cigarette lighter a lot with something that draws a lot of power. On Gen 3 saturns though I think it happens on A2 rather than F5

[odiaz1831]

Originally Posted by Zeebins

It's only a problem if you're using the cigarette lighter a lot with something that draws a lot of power. On Gen 3 saturns though I think it happens on A2 rather than F5

Guess i need to change from a 24v charger to a 12v? And not leave it plugged in at all times? Is there a counter measure to this before it happens?

[odiaz1831]

Originally Posted by fetchitfido

Your 'mystery' leak solved:

Don't reward Dorman for copying this guys work and exporting the hard work to China.

3rd gen DOHC's will require this fix more and more as the stupid plastic intake manifold age's and cracks. Earlier DOHC's and all SOHC's had aluminum intake manifolds and so were immune to this failure.

From a coolant leak to over heating to now a no-start I'd guess that a nice easy $60 fix is now a rather annoying $400+ head replacement. A compression test should be done before any more money/time is spent on diagnosing it.

I don't think it's cracked from that part. I had originally seen that but it seems to be leaking from the opposite side of the motor. By cylinder 1. It might be traveling though, I need to get a mirror and a better light down there.

[alordofchaos]

Originally Posted by odiaz1831

I don't think it's cracked from that part. I had originally seen that but it seems to be leaking from the opposite side of the motor. By cylinder 1. It might be traveling though, I need to get a mirror and a better light down there.

Agreed, there is the purge line that runs along the firewall, the surge tank, and some hoses underneath - a pinhole may be spraying the engine block when the system is pressurized.

Guess i need to change from a 24v charger to a 12v? And not leave it plugged in at all times? Is there a counter measure to this before it happens?

Are you talking about charging the battery? You may have damaged some things with that charger esp if you tried starting with it connected. Check your PCM-B fuse in the black box by the battery. There may be other fusible links/fuses to check

Zeebins is talking about plugging things into the cigarette lighter burning things (A2/F5) out.

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=173989

When you turn the key to ON (before it hits START), stop there and listen a second. You should hear the fuel pump run briefly, or do as fdryer suggested and check for fuel at the spark plug

[odiaz1831]

Originally Posted by alordofchaos

Agreed, there is the purge line that runs along the firewall, the surge tank, and some hoses underneath - a pinhole may be spraying the engine block when the system is pressurized.

Are you talking about charging the battery? You may have damaged some things with that charger esp if you tried starting with it connected. Check your PCM-B fuse in the black box by the battery. There may be other fusible links/fuses to check

Zeebins is talking about plugging things into the cigarette lighter burning things (A2/F5) out.


When you turn the key to ON (before it hits START), stop there and listen a second. You should hear the fuel pump run briefly, or do as fdryer suggested and check for fuel at the spark plug

I mean a 24v cell phone charger that plugs into the cellphone port. It's an anker and has double USB, and pulls 4amps. I was able to see if the car turned on before I rushed to catch the train today, and it did so I'm assuming the fuel pump is working? Sadly the weather and my commute schedule (since I'm carless) has been making it hard for me to get any of the ects and actual work on the car done.

[alordofchaos]

Originally Posted by odiaz1831

and it did so I'm assuming the fuel pump is working?

Yes, car won't run without fuel pump


The concern is whether the fuel pump was getting power, due to the F5/A2 issue. It's not completely ruled out (intermittent electrical failures are lots of fun) but is less likely to be your issue.

I tried the clear flood mode today in the morning and still couldnt get a start. Maybe I didnt do it right

Try and start the car normally first, foot completely off the gas pedal.

After a couple of tries, if it does not start, with the key in the OFF position, floor the gas pedal and keep it there. Leave it floored and try to start it a couple more times. Don't let up on the gas pedal until it catches

(when the PCM detects wide open throttle at start, it will turn off the fuel injectors)