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Old 01-10-2022, 03:04 AM   #1
that1man
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Default Help with understanding codes

Can someone explain these to me like I'm 5? These codes are from a 07 Saturn Ion 2.2 I just replaced a cylinder head on. Got it back running after a few years of sitting due to timing chain snap but there seems to be like a loss of power when trying to accelerate. Drives good on road but takes too pedal to move car. I feel like if I were to come to a stop going up hill it will take the pedal to the metal to get I to go, as driving it off of grass seems like a bit of struggle.

Some parts mentioned I'm the code description are pretty cheap and I hope simply replacing them will help fix the low accelerating power issue. I know it could be anything but I was wondering if it seems likely that simply replacing parts like "camshaft/crankshaft sensors" etc. would help troubleshoot the codes. Just trying to get an idea of what I'm dealing with. Posted images of codes and descriptions.

Thanks
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Old 01-11-2022, 12:19 AM   #2
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Default Re: Help with understanding codes

There are many sources of information for error codes. Before suggesting links or attempting to explain them by anyone, perhaps some questions need to be asked without presumptions of your work as neither correct or incorrect.

Are there any reasons to explain why the timing chain broke? Lack of oil, lack of maintenance, inheriting this car from another owner and problems not revealed until you took ownership and discovered problems? The GM 2.2L ECOTEC engine is used in several GM models so there's a history with this engine, good and bad.

Without presuming a great a rebuild being correct, may I ask verification of this rebuild with valid compression values? If compression is at least 165 psi on all cylinders then timing, cylinder head, and valves assure a mechanically sound engine. The EFI and exhaust system would be two areas of concern.

The EFI system uses sensors to tell the engine computer what's going on and allows it to control the engine. Error codes can be misleading sometimes due to something indirectly affecting sensor operation, making a sensor fail when it didn't. Sensor diagnosing and troubleshooting can help by testing a sensor using a multimeter, applying heat or cold to measure output values, and measuring some for resistance values. If costs don't matter, replacing sensor parts is sometimes more expedient.

The exhaust system sometimes choke off exhaust flow and can generate odd error codes without rhyme or reason. The catcon can disintegrate internally to severely restrict exhaust flow creating the equivalent of engine constipation by backing up exhaust flow, creating a weak engine. One of the simplest troubleshooting methods suspecting exhaust choking engine running would be removing the exhaust manifold mounted O2 sensor before/upstream from the catalytic converter. This allows an alternate exhaust path. While loud, a brief drive around the block either shows immediate engine improvement or not. An immediate surge in power would imply the catcon is severely blocking exhaust flow.
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Old 01-13-2022, 05:04 PM   #3
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Default Re: Help with understanding codes

Thanks for explaining! It was my own fault the timing chain snapped. My mechanic told me I needed to take care of it because how bad it sounded on a cold start. I already knew and was shopping around for the cheapest labor cost. Literally the day I decided to take it to him it snapped while I was warming it up, unfortunately

I start wit a compression test and report back

Thanks again!
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Old 02-13-2022, 11:21 AM   #4
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Default Re: Help with understanding codes

Reporting back.. I did a compression test a few days ago and got 180 on all 4 cylinders. I'm gonna look into the manifold stuff you mentioned. Going through the book now.

BTW, I got the ignition lock cylinder and ignition switch replace for free through recalls. Unfortunately, it did not fix my issue with the ignition. Still have to go under the hood to jump the starter to start the engine. Guess it's safe to assume it's that aftermarket security chip crap under the steering column. Gotta figure out how to bypass that.
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Old 02-14-2022, 11:51 AM   #5
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Default Re: Help with understanding codes

Just to make sure, 180 psi is good or acceptable for this car, right?
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Old 02-14-2022, 02:43 PM   #6
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Default Re: Help with understanding codes

Yes! Your engine is mechanically fine insofar as timing and compression.
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Old 02-19-2022, 12:27 PM   #7
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Default Re: Help with understanding codes

If it were you personally what would you choose to do, replace the sensors (don't seem to be that expensive) mentioned in the code descriptions or go the exhaust manifold route?

I'm going to research how to test whatever sensors mentioned in the codes descriptions. The exhaust thing seems a bit more time consuming. Hopefully it's not a case of sensors "failing" but really not, as you mentioned. Any tips before I get started. Trying to troubleshoot a diesel engine/fuel system issue as we and it sucks!

Thansk
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Old 02-19-2022, 07:11 PM   #8
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Default Re: Help with understanding codes

If this were my car, I'd get factory service manuals because of the complexity of EFI, emissions controls, abs, traction control, airbags, etc. While Chilton and Haynes are ok, they're not providing wiring diagrams and extensive information factory manuals have since dealer service techs need complete up to date info on service bulletins, recalls, and programming of various modules as necessary. Alldata and Mitchell are two online services for electronic factory service manuals. There may be others but I'm not aware of them. Both provide info second to none if hard copies aren't available. Back in '05 when I bought my L300, my Saturn service manuals cost $145 in four large binders and paid for themselves with savings from diy repairs (ac, brakes, lighting, drl upgrade, faulty ignition coil pack, understanding Passlock security, etc.

Holding onto a vehicle may be worth the reasonable subscription fee for electronic libraries of service manuals and in my opinion the only way to diy repairs to save on hourly labor rates and marked up parts from dealer or repair shop. Chilton and Haynes cannot go deep into diagnostics and troubleshooting if a specific problem isn't covered. Factory manuals are dealer level access. The only inaccessible feature are access to GMs TIS web to use GMs scantool for deeper information for continued support during and after a new car warranty expires. My limited knowledge has found one aftermarket scantool like VCX NANO capable of performing advanced diagnostics above the level of generic readers. I haven't tried it but I think it can connect to GMs TIS website if I pay an access fee. My reason for VCX NANO was to decode a wrench error, an intermittent xmission pressure control fault occurring infrequently. Generic readers won't decode wrench, bcm, airbag and other manufacturer specific error codes. Generic readers decode emissions errors.

Check your local library. They may have free access to Alldata. Having service manuals can help describe each error code, diagnosing and troubleshooting from basic to advanced levels with info to help understand how our vehicles run and how to use info when confronted with a problem.

Diesel engines are a different species but may be difficult with similar info and possibly public forums of like minded owners sharing valuable info dealers and repair ships aren't giving away. At least one YouTube expert seems willing too share his knowledge - South Main Auto upstate New York. Finding knowledgeable people are the next best thing to having service manuals. Btw, if your engine uses variable valve timing, be sure to find info on it for possible issues with your problems.
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Old 03-04-2022, 04:20 AM   #9
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Default Re: Help with understanding codes

Hey, I tried to test the camshaft position sensor by following this vid

https://youtu.be/CfRKkHCYk6A

and while it puts out about 5 volts I can't get it to show the battery voltage like in the video. It shows 0. I know for a fact the battery is good enough to start the car right up. So, can you tell me what this means?

The camshaft position sensor itself was cracked where the hole is that the bolt goes in tho tighten it down and that piece broke off when trying to remove the sensor. It still holds in place when put back but just can't be bolted down anymore. I ordered a replacement. Like 14 bucks on Amazon and will be here today.

Have any clue? Am I doing something wrong forbtgis particular vehicle?

Edit: To be clear, this is testing the 3 pin holes with the sensor unhooked from the wires

Thanks

Last edited by that1man; 03-04-2022 at 04:27 AM.
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Old 03-05-2022, 11:17 AM   #10
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Default Re: Help with understanding codes

Be very clear that there may be differences in wiring between your Ion camshaft sensor and a Hyundai camshaft sensor. I do not have wiring info for Ions so I will use my L300 for reference purposes Use your judgement when info is given.

My L300 uses a crankshaft and camshaft sensor. The crank sensor is a two wire device that generates its own signal (no 12v or 5v input). L300 camshaft sensors are supplied 5v on the gray wire. A purple/white wire is the output signal. Black is ground.
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Old 03-05-2022, 01:15 PM   #11
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Default Re: Help with understanding codes

I replaced the Camshaft sensor since I had no choice due to it breaking but nothing changed as far as power. Seemed like it did at first, maybe I just tricked myself into thinking so but going in reverse on grass takes a lot of pedal still. I'll try the Camshaft position sensor next since these parts are relatively cheap.

I think I might have found a place to buy a factor service manual but I'm not sure it's legit. Trying to research it but kinda getting mixed answers. It's not that much, compared to I guess typical pricing, but I'm more concerned with security. Have you ever heard of emanualonline.com? Here's a link to what I'm looking to try

https://www.emanualonline.com/cars/s...emo-48262.html

Also, I looked at the VCX Nano it and most other versions have under 4 stars. Not to say that's not due to defects or something but would you say these are comparable?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005NLQAHS...ing=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07N69PC3D...ing=UTF8&psc=1

I had the ANCEL FX2000 but wanted to try a Bluetooth one. The $20 dollar one I linked has an attractive prices and sometimes goes down. Maybe it's cheap for a reason. But if does the same as the one you mentioned I'll give it a try.

Thanks!
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Old 03-05-2022, 02:44 PM   #12
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Default Re: Help with understanding codes

For everyday (emissions only) error codes, the BAFX and many generic general purpose readers at low cost are fine. They decode only generic error codes used by every vehicle in the US market. VCX NANO offers customized scantools specific to each manufacturer. I have VCX NANO for my L300 and it reads GM specific error codes (abs, airbag, bcm, tcm, etc) and perform tests like turning on all gauges and indicators in the instrument panel. I have a recurrent xmission (wrench) code that comes and goes. P1811(?) that may need a replacement pressure control solenoid. When the wrench light turns on, xmission shifts are hard; GM describes this as default mode to protect the xmission clutches. All I do is stop by a coffee shop and shut down the engine for 15-20 minutes for a cooldown. Enough time for reading messages, a coffee break or using my tablet to read internet news. (tablet has a larger screen than my phone) Restart and the wrench light goes away and I continue with my drive. VCX NANO decoded the wrench error. Generic readers can't decode wrench errors. Higher priced readers/scantools can but one must read the fine print and enquire to be sure products meet a diyers needs.

I can't comment of ANCEL FX2000 or emanual online as I have no experience with both. Perhaps you can call or email each for a money back guarantee if their product doesn't meet your expectations. I don't know if GM has copyright protection of their service manuals to prevent third party offerings of service manuals on cd. At one time (I haven't checked recently) pirate CDs were sold on ebay for service manuals. Some very good. I had access to Mitchell and Alldata and both provide online service manuals second to none. Mitchell caters to repair shops and excellent for diyers. Alldata offers the same services to diyers too. Both relatively low cost and flexible for one time use or more. Perhaps emanual online is similar but I don't know.
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Old 03-29-2022, 04:50 PM   #13
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Default Re: Help with understanding codes

Hey, do you know what this is? And is it possible that it's causing the loss/shortage in acceleration power when in first gear?

Also uploaded a vid so you can see exactly where it sits. Next to the exhaust manifold.

https://streamable.com/1qbxu5

Thanks
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Old 04-06-2022, 03:29 AM   #14
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Default Re: Help with understanding codes

that's the o2 sensor and if was a problem you would have an o2 sensor code

my first question is of course did the timing set get put back on there correctly

if you are off a tooth it will explain every single problem you have

No power and, cam sensor codes can both be caused by the timing set not being properly installed bad or cheap timing set parts, defective cam/crank position sensor or damaged wiring to those sensors

if you replaced the sensor and still have a cam sensor code and the wiring isn't cut or damaged that means something is mechanically out of time
and its gota come back part and re-checked there is only two things that throw that error either a bad sensor or a mechanical problem

sorry
those cheap Bluetooth scan tools are not going to tell you any more then your cheap harbor freight OBDII scan tool they don't have any more functionality and are going to be of no help

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