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Old 11-29-2022, 03:58 PM   #41
Silverblu02SL2
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2002 SL2
Default Re: Soft brake pedal, went to to floor, leak under driver's seat

My nicop flare next to factory flare, where I really cranked it down and crushed it as far as it will go with a 12" pipe for leverage on the handle.

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Old 11-29-2022, 04:04 PM   #42
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2002 SL2
Default Re: Soft brake pedal, went to to floor, leak under driver's seat

This one I did not crush it as much and is a little thicker, more "bubble" like. I think I'd favor this one over the previous thinner one even though the diameter is smaller but has more material for the flare nut to crush against the mating seat. Which one would you choose or neither one?

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Old 11-29-2022, 04:22 PM   #43
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Default Re: Soft brake pedal, went to to floor, leak under driver's seat

The final forming is done by the nut and fitting. Try bolting one of your practice parts to an old hose and then see how it looks.

Edit: they look fine.
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Old 11-29-2022, 05:00 PM   #44
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2002 SL2
Default Re: Soft brake pedal, went to to floor, leak under driver's seat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waiex191 View Post
The final forming is done by the nut and fitting. Try bolting one of your practice parts to an old hose and then see how it looks.

Edit: they look fine.
Good idea! Hope my flaring tool will have enough clearance. Inline flaring tools are available for tight quarters. Plan is to fish the 2 straight nicop lines from the rear through it's path up the engine bay with plenty of slack, put on the flare nuts in engine bay, make the 2 flares, make the bends using the old lines as guide, fasten flared lines to the master cylinder, fit the lines into the plastic blocks, make the bends to the rear flex hose unions, cut lines to final length then put on flare nuts and make the 2 remaining flares. I hope there will be enough clearance to make the 2 rear flares with my tool and not have to buy the inline tool.
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Old 11-29-2022, 05:01 PM   #45
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Default Re: Soft brake pedal, went to to floor, leak under driver's seat

Why don't you put the nuts on and flare them before you get under the car? Just chuck some blue tape over the end to keep dirt out.
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Old 11-29-2022, 05:14 PM   #46
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2002 SL2
Default Re: Soft brake pedal, went to to floor, leak under driver's seat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waiex191 View Post
Why don't you put the nuts on and flare them before you get under the car? Just chuck some blue tape over the end to keep dirt out.
I thought it may be easier w/o the nuts hanging up on things as I fish the lines through. Maybe not an issue? If so, I'll put the nuts on, flare and tape before getting under the car.
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Old 11-29-2022, 06:46 PM   #47
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Default Re: Soft brake pedal, went to to floor, leak under driver's seat

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Originally Posted by Waiex191 View Post
I think you are right. I don't think my bubble flare kit has a countersink. My old double flare set and my aircraft AN flare set do have a countersink.
..........
My tool with countersink must have been a double flare tool. I wonder if a bubble flare die has a different shape than a double flare die?
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Old 11-29-2022, 09:24 PM   #48
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Default Re: Soft brake pedal, went to to floor, leak under driver's seat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverblu02SL2 View Post
My tool with countersink must have been a double flare tool. I wonder if a bubble flare die has a different shape than a double flare die?
Definitely. What dies do you have? If none then it's a single flare tool.
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Old 11-29-2022, 10:57 PM   #49
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2002 SL2
Default Re: Soft brake pedal, went to to floor, leak under driver's seat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waiex191 View Post
Definitely. What dies do you have? If none then it's a single flare tool.
The smallest die is 1/16". Is the quality of the pic good enough to tell whether the profile of the dish is a bubble flare or not?

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Old 11-29-2022, 11:15 PM   #50
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Default Re: Soft brake pedal, went to to floor, leak under driver's seat

Looks about right.
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Old 11-30-2022, 11:46 PM   #51
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2002 SL2
Default Re: Soft brake pedal, went to to floor, leak under driver's seat

25' roll nickel copper line and flare nuts arrived. Unfortunately the flare nuts are not metric but SAE. The seller says their kit fits Saturn so they must have sent the wrong kit. I'll be reusing the old flare nuts which are still in good shape.

Note the color difference from the roll I bought years ago which I think is CuNiFe which has some iron in it.

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Old 12-01-2022, 10:58 AM   #52
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Default Re: Soft brake pedal, went to to floor, leak under driver's seat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waiex191 View Post
Looks about right.
What is the angle of the bubble flare for 3/16 (4.75 mm) automotive brake lines? Is it 37 or 45 degrees? How is that angle measured relative to?
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Last edited by Silverblu02SL2; 12-01-2022 at 10:59 AM. Reason: more info
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Old 12-01-2022, 11:09 AM   #53
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Default Re: Soft brake pedal, went to to floor, leak under driver's seat

I've honestly never seen a specification for the bubble flare. The 37 is aviation.
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Old 12-01-2022, 12:12 PM   #54
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Default Re: Soft brake pedal, went to to floor, leak under driver's seat

Just spoke to tech support at fedhill.com, automotive brake lines use 45 degree flares for bubble (DIN or ISO) and double (SAE) flares. The angle is measured relative to the centerline of the tubing.

https://store.fedhillusa.com/technic...howtopdfs.aspx
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Last edited by Silverblu02SL2; 12-01-2022 at 12:14 PM. Reason: add more info
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Old 12-01-2022, 12:19 PM   #55
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Default Re: Soft brake pedal, went to to floor, leak under driver's seat

Bryan, is your flaring tool made by OTC and is that a steel line flare made on it?
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Old 12-01-2022, 12:45 PM   #56
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Default Re: Soft brake pedal, went to to floor, leak under driver's seat

Bubble flare is mostly just an unfinished double flare. Follow the steps for the double flare, just don't finish it with the countersink. There are specific dies for bubble flare but those kits are usually harder to find, which is just as stupid as metric lines and fittings being hard to find.

If you don't want to worry about the flare, get/rent/borrow a hydraulic flaring tool. I'm never going back to those junk $30ish kits that every parts store sells.
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Old 12-01-2022, 02:06 PM   #57
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2002 SL2
Default Re: Soft brake pedal, went to to floor, leak under driver's seat

Yes, a bubble flare is kind of doing 1/2 the operation of a double flare like you said. The widely available and cheap "wing nut" flaring tools vary in quality and precision so it's a crapshoot what you get.

This Capri flaring tool is an interesting unit that has the potential to be a really good tool. The description says it's makes double flares but the video says it does both. The clamp blocks are forged, much deeper, w/o threads that mar the line like the wing nut tools. I like that it is operated with wrenches and not a 5" rod screw handle.

Anyone here have one and can give a review?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0859QMSNX...v_ov_lig_dp_it
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Old 12-01-2022, 02:38 PM   #58
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Default Re: Soft brake pedal, went to to floor, leak under driver's seat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverblu02SL2 View Post
Bryan, is your flaring tool made by OTC and is that a steel line flare made on it?
Yes to both. That was a practice flare on the old line. My OTC tool has done every flare on 2 S Series and a Buick, plus my son has done some lines on friend's cars with it.
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Old 12-01-2022, 02:40 PM   #59
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Default Re: Soft brake pedal, went to to floor, leak under driver's seat

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0859QMSNX...lig_dp_it&th=1

Scroll down to bottom of page, step 5 "create bubble flare". Question is: Does it create a DIN/ISO compliant bubble flare?
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Old 12-01-2022, 03:25 PM   #60
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Default Re: Soft brake pedal, went to to floor, leak under driver's seat

It pretty clearly says it creates an SAE double flare. My recommendation is the OTC tool I linked. My experience runs counter to fetch's.

Edit: your practice flares look fine. Did you try and bolt one of them into a fitting? The nut clamps down on the corner and it's hard to go wrong.
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