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Old 08-23-2020, 08:32 PM   #1
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2007 VUE 3.5L
Default ABS - C0085 Left Rear ABS Solenoid 2 circuit

I'm having some issues with my ABS

I have replaced the wheel bearing assembly, but the problem is still here.

I have checked the assembly for voltage as I spin the wheel and also for resistance. They seem both fine and within spec.

I checked the ABS sensor wires from the assembly and I don't see any gashes or anything that could cause it.

The ABS light comes on pretty much as soon as a reverse out my drive way 99% of the time. If I drive the car around town to do errands, sometimes it'll stay off after a few stops and re-starts. Like the car needs to be warm or something lol.

But even if its off after a few errands, there is one sharp left corner near my home that 50% of the time sets it off.

I was thinking it was something in the assembly, so I changed it, but the problem is still here.

Can anybody recommend anything else to check? and where those places are?

Thanks


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Old 08-23-2020, 10:04 PM   #2
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Default Re: ABS - C0085 Left Rear ABS Solenoid 2 circuit

A search defines C0085 SATURN - Left Rear ABS Solenoid 2 Circuit Malfunction as a problem with the electronic brake control module, the abs unit in the engine bay. Each wheel has a reluctor, sensor and wiring back to the abs unit, feeding back wheel speed. This appears as an abs unit issue, not a wheel sensor, reluctor or wiring between sensor and abs unit, possibly a first in Saturnfans. Abs solenoids are in the abs unit.

1-What did you use to decode this error? The majority of generic readers cannot decode emissions related errors, P type codes. Better readers, scantools and dedicated abs readers brake shops use can decode C, U, and B type codes.

2-Here's one link defining this error; https://www.engine-codes.com/c0085_saturn.html. If correct, it's pointing to the abs unit. Abs units are generally not serviceable by anyone at the diy level and less so by dealers. With nearly trouble free abs module and electronics, virtually all abs related problems lies outboard, the wheel sensors, reluctors and wheel bearings. Most abs error codes points to wheel location, not the abs unit in the engine bay. Dealers may never repair abs units when it's easier to remove and replace them then send the faulty unit to a repair service. There may be abs unit issues but you'd have to search around outside these forums.
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Old 08-23-2020, 10:43 PM   #3
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Default Re: ABS - C0085 Left Rear ABS Solenoid 2 circuit

Thank you for the fast response

1.
This is the tool I used to pull the code (Autel Autolink AL619): https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

2.
Is the ABS Unit in your post the same thing as an EBCM? Are they one and the same?


-----

Some extra things I was wondering:
A. I measured the resistance of the new wheel bearing assembly, it measures 1830 ohms. The manual states a range of 800 to 1700 ohms, but I think this is a minimum, so 1830 is ok?

B. I read the service manual and for Step 2 for C0085, it suggests to check for "Testing for Intermittent Conditions and Poor Connections"
and lists:
• Wiring broken inside the insulation
• Poor connection between the male and female terminal at a connector
• Poor terminal to wire connection--Some conditions which fall under this description are poor crimps, poor solder joints, crimping over the wire insulation rather than the wire itself, and corrosion in the wire to terminal contact area, etc.
• Pierced or damaged insulation can allow moisture to enter the wiring causing corrosion. The conductor can corrode inside the insulation, with little visible evidence. Look for swollen and stiff sections of wire in the suspect circuits.
• Wiring which has been pinched, cut, or its insulation rubbed through may cause an intermittent open or short as the bare area touches other wiring or parts of the vehicle.
• Wiring that comes in contact with hot or exhaust components

I was reaching out on these forums to work out if this was a 'catch all' article, or whether these things could possibly contribute towards throwing a C0085 code. I didnt want to try and probe around the car if it was 100% the solenoid inside the unit itself.

C. After the above, it states: "Replace the electronic brake control module (EBCM).". Is this something that can be transplanted from a junk car? or does it need programming? The link said C0085 was a 1 hour job, so I imagine brakes dont need bleeding etc.
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Old 08-23-2020, 11:29 PM   #4
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Default Re: ABS - C0085 Left Rear ABS Solenoid 2 circuit

Are you using GMs service manual, alldata or Mitchell? Alldata and Mitchell use GMs service manuals for accurate info. I am interested, out of curiosity, of the reader used as this helps others to understand generic readers cannot decode abs errors.

Yes, the EBCM is the abs unit. The resistances measured to each wheel speed sensor are close enough. Service manuals are detailed only to the point of replacing faulty components like the abs unit. It's far too complex with electronics and servos for dealers to repair. A level above brake and electronics knowledge are needed for servicing abs units and my guess is these are repaired by a GM authorized repair facility under warranty or junked after warranty using a new unit. Like most electronics used these days, bench repairs and time are weighed against costs with complex electronics not repaired. The abs unit is basically two parts; the machined hydraulic assembly with motor and solenoids to manage and direct high pressure brake fluid to each wheel brake and the electronics connected to the wheel speed sensors, motor and solenoids. Technical bench repairs, in my opinion, would be replacing faulty electronics, solenoids or motor followed up with unit testing before putting back in stock. I'm not expert in abs systems but have electronics background dealing with mechanical, servo and computer control systems to make base level guesses on simple repairs. ABS is not a diy repair as simply removing and replacing the abs unit requires bleeding the system after repairs using GMs scantool to cycle the abs unit and/or each solenoid while the abs motor runs to generate brake pressure to bleed the abs unit of air. After this the entire vehicle brake system may need bleeding to ensure neither the abs unit nor the brake system retains air.

If this were my car, I would probably follow service manual procedures then ensure wheel speed sensors, reluctors and wiring are intact before concluding a faulty abs unit. Service manuals are the only guides providing procedures for safe repairs. If the abs unit is faulty, replacing it relatively easy but you need GMs scantool to activate and bleed the abs unit on the car. Without GMs scantool, you'd have to figure out how to bleed the abs unit. Brake flush and bleeding procedure are the same with or without abs. Abs units are bled only with auto manufacturer's scantool with specific programming for make and model.

Last edited by fdryer; 08-23-2020 at 11:36 PM.
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Old 08-24-2020, 07:33 PM   #5
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Default Re: ABS - C0085 Left Rear ABS Solenoid 2 circuit

I use the manuals that the GM techs use (It's a Tomcat server inside a VM). It's a collection from 1980-2009. I'm not familiar with the others you mentioned.

As for as the wiring:
In the OP I mentioned I replaced the bearing, so everything from the bearing to the first harness adapter is good. The only thing it could be is the wire from the sensor to the EBCM. I've been under the car a few times, and the wiring looks good. I came here to ask what steps to take. I saw somebody post about a continuity test from the speed sensor to the EBCM, but I'm not sure how to go about that. I.e. which wires to probe and which harness to probe from.
But when you mentioned it was the ABS unit in your first post, so I was looking at replacing the ABS unit and disregarded wiring, but then your last post said check the wiring, so now im really confused as what to do now lol

As far as replacing the EBCM:
I found an extract from my manual today that mentions: the EBCM doesnt need re-programming. It looks like it can be replaced without bleeding the system also. It says its attached to the BPMV. Are we talking about the same car? (I have a Saturn Vue 2007 AWD Base). It looks like you can remove the battery tray and pull it out, then replace it. I have attached the extracts here.

When looking on eBay, I saw one service that offers EBCM repair for around $180, but you send it to them in the mail. On Amazon and Rockauto, they seem quite expensive: around $400. So I was hoping to go down the junker as they have them for $55. The product number is different between the Base and Redline, despite both having AWD and 4 speed sensors, I was wondering if they could inter-marry.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Programming.jpg (84.3 KB, 4 views)
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Document ID_ 1871449.pdf (132.3 KB, 2 views)
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Old 08-24-2020, 10:01 PM   #6
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Default Re: ABS - C0085 Left Rear ABS Solenoid 2 circuit

My bad as I assumed the EBCM and actual abs motor/solenoid unit are all in one assembly. With service manual info, pinouts should be available to perform continuity tests on wiring between wheel speed sensor and ebcm connector terminals. Although it may appears as waffling between ebcm and wiring, I tend to believe sensors, reluctors, bearings and wiring are primary problems with the ebcm, motor and solenoids as secondary. Eliminating the easy stuff before troubleshooting the difficult.

With a separate ebcm, checking wiring for continuity to the module eliminates external parts. If continuity is fine, this leaves the ebcm, wiring to the solenoid and solenoid.
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Old 08-24-2020, 11:45 PM   #7
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Default Re: ABS - C0085 Left Rear ABS Solenoid 2 circuit

Your code is not for a wheel speed sensor. It is for a problem with an actuator solenoid in the ABS control unit under the hood.
Here is a video showing how to change it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LP4vuIiUwJo&t=485s

You might be able to remove the electronic board from the pump without disconnecting the brake lines and resolder the solenoid connections as shown in this video. It's a different module in the video than yours but the theory is the same.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EHYqkiasZs

You could also measure the resistance of the solenoid coils to find the bad solenoid coil and transfer a replacement from a junk yard donor.

If you can get the electronic board off leaving the pump in the car you may be able to transfer the entire circuit board from a junkyard ABS unit...assuming your pump still works. I'm not sure if there would be programming involved if you put in a unit from another vehicle.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EHYqkiasZs
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Old 08-26-2020, 03:21 AM   #8
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Default Re: ABS - C0085 Left Rear ABS Solenoid 2 circuit

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
With service manual info, pinouts should be available to perform continuity tests on wiring between wheel speed sensor and ebcm connector terminals.
With a separate ebcm, checking wiring for continuity to the module eliminates external parts. If continuity is fine, this leaves the ebcm, wiring to the solenoid and solenoid.
Yes exactly, that is what I came here for.
1. To see if continuity can throw a C0085 or whether it's 100% the unit.
and
2. IF it can throw C0085, then where exactly do I check/probe?

Crawling under the car, I see that each wheel sensor is plugged into a harness, and that harness goes to another connector in the middle of the rear of the car. Then it eventually gets to the EBCM, but im not sure if there are other connectors I can probe near the front of the car without worrying out pinouts. If there is no continuity between the back rear and front, then the problem could be there without worrying out awkward hidden harness pinouts. So I would like to check there first.

So basically I want to check for continuity nearest the EBCM as possible before removing the battery tray, headlight and putting some time into it. IO hope that makes sense. The manual isnt very clear on this,

When I say continuity, I mean putting a probe on each end and listening for a beep from the DMM. My electrical knowledge is very poor


Quote:
Originally Posted by imaddicted2u View Post
Your code is not for a wheel speed sensor. It is for a problem with an actuator solenoid in the ABS control unit under the hood.
Here is a video showing how to change it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LP4vuIiUwJo&t=485s

You might be able to remove the electronic board from the pump without disconnecting the brake lines and resolder the solenoid connections as shown in this video. It's a different module in the video than yours but the theory is the same.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EHYqkiasZs

You could also measure the resistance of the solenoid coils to find the bad solenoid coil and transfer a replacement from a junk yard donor.

If you can get the electronic board off leaving the pump in the car you may be able to transfer the entire circuit board from a junkyard ABS unit...assuming your pump still works. I'm not sure if there would be programming involved if you put in a unit from another vehicle.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EHYqkiasZs
Thank you for the post! I have received a lot of mixed information about this error. Some people say its 100% the unit, some say it could still be the sensors that cause throw the code.

I saw one of those videos while researching this, but the second was really useful, thank you! The third video link is the same link as the second, was it a copy and paste typo?

I was hoping to go to the junk yard and find the exact same model as the part of rock auto (ACDELCO 22701027 years: 2002-2007). Same trim and all. Buy it for $55, stick it in and see what happens. Then I hope I wont have to expose the PCB inside or anything like that. If it doesnt work, the re-sale value on ebay seems pretty good to not lose out on the deal. The ABS is off anyway, so its not going to make it any worse, I hope. The manual says it only needs to be re-programmed (assuming you have an exact match from the same make model trim) is if: "Revised software/calibration files have been released for this vehicle."; like a firmware update I guess.

It's up to 120 degrees here in vegas, so its a possibility that it is a dry joint on the PCB for a solenoid like you mentioned.

Having said all that, I mentioned in the OP that if I've been doing errands, stating and stopping, the ABS light sometimes doesnt come on and I have full ABS. And what can set it off again is a corner near my house. So I dont know if a solenoid problem can cause that because that sounds like a continuity issue or ground short in the wiring or something else. Then again, im not familiar with solenoids or how they work.
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Last edited by seansaturn; 08-26-2020 at 03:27 AM.
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Old 08-26-2020, 04:34 AM   #9
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Default Re: ABS - C0085 Left Rear ABS Solenoid 2 circuit

Yep, typo, sorry, This is the right link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_5WZUebDx8&t=536s
A bad connection at a solenoid can act like any other intermittent wiring problem. Changing the module with a known good one is the best option but if you decide to try re-flowing the connections, make sure to use rosin core solder and flux for electronics. Do not use acid core plumbing solder and flux.
This diagram is for a 2009 but is likely the same as yours.
Disconnect the plug at the wheel speed sensor. Measure the resistance across the sensor. Put it back together. At the EBCM connector, measure the resistance across the pins corresponding to the sensor you are testing. If it measures reasonably close to what you measured at the wheel then the wiring is OK.
If you want to further confirm, you could run a wire back and plug it in to the connector at the wheel and check for continuity to each of the pins in the ECBM plug.
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File Type: pdf 09 Vue - ABS - 2.pdf (88.1 KB, 1 views)
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Old 08-26-2020, 04:41 AM   #10
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Default Re: ABS - C0085 Left Rear ABS Solenoid 2 circuit

You need to get the right module number for your Vue. It needs to match the options yours has.
Put your VIN into GMPartsGiant. It should tell you what is installed.
https://www.gmpartsgiant.com/
Best bet though is to eyeball the number from the one installed in your Vue.
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Old 08-29-2020, 07:36 AM   #11
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Default Re: ABS - C0085 Left Rear ABS Solenoid 2 circuit

Great! Thank you so much! I bet it's new module time. I have crawled around and checked as much wiring as I could.

Once the heat dies down, I'll go to the junker and see if I can grab something. Thanks for the help, I really appreciate it! I'll update when its finally done
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