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Old 03-25-2022, 11:05 PM   #41
ultravioletnk
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Default Re: 1999 SOCH auto transmission problems

just gonna pop in for some uninvited 2... the auto transmission is actually an impressively engineered design and it works nicely when it does... but all this hassle to have a slower/less fun to drive car in the end baffles me. if i were you, i'd head on down to the junkyard and pull the parts for a manual swap. and as i've mentioned in pm, i'd be happy to help with that!
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Old 03-25-2022, 11:31 PM   #42
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Default Re: 1999 SOCH auto transmission problems

Oh, crap! I just realized that I can't scan docs right now; the only computer I have set up to work with the old scanner SW is inop. I will make an attempt to find the files here, on the forum.
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Old 03-25-2022, 11:46 PM   #43
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Default Re: 1999 SOCH auto transmission problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by billr View Post
Oh, crap! I just realized that I can't scan docs right now; the only computer I have set up to work with the old scanner SW is inop. I will make an attempt to find the files here, on the forum.
a bit off-topic, but what's wrong with that computer? perhaps it's easily fixed
...
rings-1996 sl2 ~215k mi
phoebe-1995 sl1 ~250k mi
janus-2000 sohc2 ~190k mi
tethys-1994 sw2 ~302k mi
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Old 03-25-2022, 11:52 PM   #44
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Default Re: 1999 SOCH auto transmission problems

Look at the links in reply #14 of this thread:

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...highlight=taat

Does that give you the solenoid info you want? By the way, the search function seems much better now!

The computer, running WinXP that the scanner SW requires, no longer recognizes the boot disc. I have done nothing so far to trouble-shoot it, not even opened the case.
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Old 03-26-2022, 12:02 AM   #45
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Default Re: 1999 SOCH auto transmission problems

Manual shifting is good on a bicycle (I prefer the friction type), but I have never driven a manual transmission on a car before, and with me being hesitant to take my eyes off the road long enough to look at the speedometer, I have a hard time imagining trying to closely monitor RPM, vehicle speed, and where to move the stick after pressing the clutch pedal...
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Old 03-26-2022, 12:02 AM   #46
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Default Re: 1999 SOCH auto transmission problems

You are also going to need a chart showing what combinations of solenoids are energized for each gear. I can type that info faster than searching for previous posts, and will do so tomorrow morning. (It may be in the same thread, if you want to browse my saga)
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Old 03-26-2022, 12:04 AM   #47
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Default Re: 1999 SOCH auto transmission problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by billr View Post
The computer, running WinXP that the scanner SW requires, no longer recognizes the boot disc. I have done nothing so far to trouble-shoot it, not even opened the case.
well, that does sound like a failed hdd if i had to guess, easy to remedy by installing a replacement hdd or ssd... you likely have lost the data on that drive though, i would pull it out or boot a linux liveusb on the machine and use a tool like ddrescue to try and copy the whole thing.
...
rings-1996 sl2 ~215k mi
phoebe-1995 sl1 ~250k mi
janus-2000 sohc2 ~190k mi
tethys-1994 sw2 ~302k mi
rip mimas-wrecked 1996 sw1-trailer
pandora-1999 sc2
dione-1998 sw2
penny [iapetus]-1997 sw2
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Old 03-26-2022, 12:05 AM   #48
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Default Re: 1999 SOCH auto transmission problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by lanxer57 View Post
Manual shifting is good on a bicycle (I prefer the friction type), but I have never driven a manual transmission on a car before, and with me being hesitant to take my eyes off the road long enough to look at the speedometer, I have a hard time imagining trying to closely monitor RPM, vehicle speed, and where to move the stick after pressing the clutch pedal...
haha, it seems intimidating at first but it becomes muscle memory and you don't need any more than the sound of the engine and the feeling of how the car is accelerating to determine when to shift. i'd definitely suggest learning it, once you get the hang of it and drive a manual car everywhere you just become so... one with the machine as it were, lol

and a note about moving the shifter, it is instinctive to want to look down at it a lot, but once you get a feeling for the positions of the gears, it's the same thing as above with clutching and choosing shift points. it becomes natural and instinctive with practice
...
rings-1996 sl2 ~215k mi
phoebe-1995 sl1 ~250k mi
janus-2000 sohc2 ~190k mi
tethys-1994 sw2 ~302k mi
rip mimas-wrecked 1996 sw1-trailer
pandora-1999 sc2
dione-1998 sw2
penny [iapetus]-1997 sw2
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Old 03-26-2022, 12:07 AM   #49
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Default Re: 1999 SOCH auto transmission problems

This does show a plug, but it does not show which pins control the what gears, among other things, I like to know where to plug something in before trying to do it...
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Old 03-26-2022, 12:19 AM   #50
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Default Re: 1999 SOCH auto transmission problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by billr View Post
You are also going to need a chart showing what combinations of solenoids are energized for each gear.
here's the fsm page with a description of the transmission's operation.
...
rings-1996 sl2 ~215k mi
phoebe-1995 sl1 ~250k mi
janus-2000 sohc2 ~190k mi
tethys-1994 sw2 ~302k mi
rip mimas-wrecked 1996 sw1-trailer
pandora-1999 sc2
dione-1998 sw2
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Old 03-26-2022, 01:34 PM   #51
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Default Re: 1999 SOCH auto transmission problems

Good info in those FSM pages shown, but I think OP will still want this:

1st gear => 2/R, 3, and 4 solenoid coils are all powered (pins H, B, and D are grounded).

2nd gear => 3 and 4 solenoids powered (pins B and D grounded)

3rd gear => 2/R and 4 solenoids powered (pins H and D grounded)

4th gear => 2/R and 3 solenoids powered (pins H and B grounded)

Rev gear => same as 2nd gear (R enabled due to mechanical valve in VB)

P&N gear => no solenoids powered (pins H, B, and D all open-circuit)

I am ignoring LP and TCC for now for simplicity. Those solenoid coils can be left unpowered (pins F and K open-circuit) and the trans will shift to all gears (but harsh/firm shift) and the TCC will no engage.

I have emphasized "coil", "powered", and "grounded" (meaning current flowing) because there are various charts showing the above info and they all are confusing to me. Generally, the solenoid valves are referred to as "on", meaning a particular VB passages is pressurized, when the solenoid Coil is "off", meaning no current flow in the coil. Sometimes the solenoid valves are referred to as "reverse acting" Also, some charts show operation of sprag clutches, which are certainly important to the selected gear being operable, but are irrelevant to any hydraulic/electric operations.

PS: I also urge you to learn to drive a manual trans car. It is quite easy to learn and once you do you will not be distracted from your driving (like anybody cares these days!); and is a useful skill to have, maybe even life-saving some day...

PPS: This trans trouble-shooting effort is somewhat crippled if you won't get well into the 4th gear speeds (40+ mph) or won't do hard WOT acceleration. You might want to consider taking it, towed on a front-end dolley, to a peaceful remote road for testing sessions.
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Old 04-02-2022, 11:02 PM   #52
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Default Re: 1999 SOCH auto transmission problems

I learned 2 things last week.
1: The transmission solenoids can be controlled manually with cheap light switches, and 3rd gear slips sometimes, nut not always.
2: I seem to have lost the title, and we were also using it as a bill of sale. I could not find it anywhere, so it probably got thrown out. With no proof of ownership, we will probably have to scrap the car and start over even though it runs well for the 3rd time.
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Old 04-03-2022, 12:27 AM   #53
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Default Re: 1999 SOCH auto transmission problems

My understanding is that Vermont will register/title any car over 15 years old with no paperwork; and neither you or the car has to show up in VT, all done via mail. Then you take the VT title and use it to get your CO registration. This could be just a "myth", I have never tried to use the process, but you might investigate.

Have you contacted your DMV about getting a replacement title? I expect they have a process for doing so, as long as the VIN is not listed as stolen or scrapped.
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Old 04-03-2022, 03:53 AM   #54
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Default Re: 1999 SOCH auto transmission problems

Vermont seems to require a bill of sale. we were apparently using the vehicle title as a bill of sale, and that seems to have vanished... Could I get a bill of sale by getting it impounded on purpose (after disabling and removing certain systems such as the radio of coarse), and then buying it back when it appears at a police auction? Could there be an easier, cheaper, or faster way of getting one?
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Old 04-03-2022, 06:22 PM   #55
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Default Re: 1999 SOCH auto transmission problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by billr View Post
My understanding is that Vermont will register/title any car over 15 years old with no paperwork; and neither you or the car has to show up in VT, all done via mail. Then you take the VT title and use it to get your CO registration. This could be just a "myth", I have never tried to use the process, but you might investigate.

Have you contacted your DMV about getting a replacement title? I expect they have a process for doing so, as long as the VIN is not listed as stolen or scrapped.
the colorado title replacement process is a bit onerous, although it does exist. that's good info regarding vermont, i own a couple cars for which i don't have the title and i may look into that as it does sound quicker/easier than going through colorado's process.

regarding bills of sale, they're pretty easy to draw up if you don't already have one. if you still have contact info for the seller, you can just ask them to sign it.
...
rings-1996 sl2 ~215k mi
phoebe-1995 sl1 ~250k mi
janus-2000 sohc2 ~190k mi
tethys-1994 sw2 ~302k mi
rip mimas-wrecked 1996 sw1-trailer
pandora-1999 sc2
dione-1998 sw2
penny [iapetus]-1997 sw2
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Old 04-03-2022, 06:42 PM   #56
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Default Re: 1999 SOCH auto transmission problems

My dad seems to have contact information for the guy that was selling it for someone else last september in greely. given how far greely is, could it be easier to utilize the mail system to fill out a bill of sale? It is good to hear that even if I am unable to attain a new title for it, it will be possible to avoid the same fate as the mustang or the 2001. (I still have the engine, body panels, and some interior parts from the 2001, so not a complete loss like the mustang was...) If I find the title under the refrigerator or something in 10 years, I will know what happened to it... I also seem to be having trouble with typing responses to P.M.s at the moment. Deleting characters works fine, but adding them does not seem to work...
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Old 04-03-2022, 07:32 PM   #57
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Default Re: 1999 SOCH auto transmission problems

VT is famous for not caring about the title status of anything over 15yrs. People bring "lost title" cars in from Florida and other states all the time because of it. Once it's registered in VT nearly all states accept VT Registration in place of a title. You'd have to pay 6% sales tax on the NADA retail value plus $77ish for registration...probably be cheaper to locally file for a Colorado duplicate title.

I don't know if they require a VT address or not, no experience with that.

In VT bills of sale aren't any more complicated than a mom & pop store receipt..."seller, buyer, date, item"
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Old 05-11-2022, 02:22 AM   #58
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Default Re: 1999 SOCH auto transmission problems

I finally got a pressure gauge today. As I connected the hose to the temperature sensor hole, I noticed that:
The transmission fluid temperature sensor is not below the filter, the thing in the picture is. And when the temperature sensor is removed, some fluid leaks out, probably because of our slanted driveway.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg below the trans filter.jpg (193.6 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg river of atf.jpg (126.3 KB, 3 views)
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Old 05-11-2022, 02:33 AM   #59
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Default Re: 1999 SOCH auto transmission problems

I did the "fuse pull" test, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoEhhARC5gEI recorded some video footage of driving with both the gauge and scan tool on screen. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u491UnXAe9A I hope this helps. I would have done more, but the hose to the gauge came off, spilling ALL of the transmission fluid on the road. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkCh5Cq6Lu8 I hope thad did not cause too much damage. After putting the sensor back, and filling it with 4.2 quarts of dexron 111 compatible transmission fluid, I drove it home. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBViJoQXGHs
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Old 05-11-2022, 06:40 AM   #60
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Default Re: 1999 SOCH auto transmission problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by lanxer57 View Post
I finally got a pressure gauge today. As I connected the hose to the temperature sensor hole, I noticed that:
The transmission fluid temperature sensor is not below the filter, the thing in the picture is. And when the temperature sensor is removed, some fluid leaks out, probably because of our slanted driveway.
the sensor in the picture is the turbine shaft speed sensor. and it's normal for some fluid to leak when you pull a temperature sensor, whether it be transmission fluid or engine coolant... slanted driveway or not.
...
rings-1996 sl2 ~215k mi
phoebe-1995 sl1 ~250k mi
janus-2000 sohc2 ~190k mi
tethys-1994 sw2 ~302k mi
rip mimas-wrecked 1996 sw1-trailer
pandora-1999 sc2
dione-1998 sw2
penny [iapetus]-1997 sw2
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