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Old 05-16-2018, 09:03 AM   #41
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Default Re: Just How Fast is a Saturn SL2?

I should also turn around and say that there is plenty of helpful knowledge in here to be had. Much of it can come from someone who doesn't have an agenda to blow his own horn. I point out a man who pointed me to a wire harness behind a rubber barrier inside the A-pillar structure.

Help can be had from normal, regular people here who actually want to help.

Thank you to those of you with that knowledge.

I only wish that you'd speak up more often. It would actually help stifle the hot air from those that like to bluster.

Thank you!
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Old 06-03-2018, 05:35 PM   #42
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Default Re: Just How Fast is a Saturn SL2?

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Yes, because the Saturn S-Series gets similar highway fuel economy to the Prius. The difference is that we don't get a free dental dam with our vehicle purchase or the free pack of tampons.....
From my signature you can see that we (my wife and I) owned two S-Series Saturns. We had them for a long time and drove them for hundreds of thousands of miles, including a lot of highway miles. You can also see that we now own a 2010 Prius, which I use primarily for my 80 mile round trip commute.

The S-Series does NOT get similar highway fuel economy to the Prius, unless you consider an approximately 50% difference (40mpg/60mpg) in real world results to be similar.

If the Prius isn't the kind of vehicle that is right for your needs (or wants) that's your choice. Similarly, other people get to choose the vehicle that is right for them and their circumstances. For us a vehicle is a tool, a means of transportation. I like to be logical and rational, I like facts and numbers, and putting things into spreadsheets. I researched a great number of vehicle types as a possible replacement for the SL2. The Prius ended up as the clear choice to meet the needs of me and my family. It's an extremely reliable model that gets incredibly good fuel economy, and it has enough room for us and our two kids for when we want to use it as a family vehicle. Having now gone directly from driving a SL2 to driving a Prius, I can also say that the Prius is a great deal more quiet and comfortable.

You seem prejudiced against the Prius and seemingly anyone who drives one, and being prejudiced is also your choice, but your crude and childish comments are really unnecessary.
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Old 06-03-2018, 07:42 PM   #43
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Default Re: Just How Fast is a Saturn SL2?

^ Back in the early 90's when I was commuting to New Jersey and back, I was told of a doctor buying a Prius. He was getting 50 mpg. I was astonished and had no reason to disbelieve info. This doctor worked in emergency rooms and was deployed overseas in the army. There are many practical people that buy what they need. Some need a Ferrari and aren't concerned about fuel mileage. Others want to squeeze the most mpg. I would love to drive a Ferrari but I own an L300......... My best mileage in my commute whether using ac or not was just shy of 25 mpg with as much cruise control as allowable with speeds set at 73 mph. Gas was around $1.85 in NJ.
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Old 06-04-2018, 11:30 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by MrWhsprs View Post
From my signature you can see that we (my wife and I) owned two S-Series Saturns. We had them for a long time and drove them for hundreds of thousands of miles, including a lot of highway miles. You can also see that we now own a 2010 Prius, which I use primarily for my 80 mile round trip commute.

The S-Series does NOT get similar highway fuel economy to the Prius, unless you consider an approximately 50% difference (40mpg/60mpg) in real world results to be similar.

If the Prius isn't the kind of vehicle that is right for your needs (or wants) that's your choice. Similarly, other people get to choose the vehicle that is right for them and their circumstances. For us a vehicle is a tool, a means of transportation. I like to be logical and rational, I like facts and numbers, and putting things into spreadsheets. I researched a great number of vehicle types as a possible replacement for the SL2. The Prius ended up as the clear choice to meet the needs of me and my family. It's an extremely reliable model that gets incredibly good fuel economy, and it has enough room for us and our two kids for when we want to use it as a family vehicle. Having now gone directly from driving a SL2 to driving a Prius, I can also say that the Prius is a great deal more quiet and comfortable.

You seem prejudiced against the Prius and seemingly anyone who drives one, and being prejudiced is also your choice, but your crude and childish comments are really unnecessary.
2010 Toyota Prius 48mpg highway. which is lower than what the car averages in the city. The actual tests, for rating to highway fuel economy(before the EPA switched to estimates in 2008), was an average speed of 48mph, over the course of a 10-mile commute at 55mph, starting from a dead stop, on a chassis-dynometer that had hookups for the tailpipe emissions.

This test was simulated in an episode of Mythbusters, when they tested different "tricks" that people claimed could improve economy.

So, I'll tell you what, I will drive my Saturn S-series at 55mph(not 65-70mph like most speed limits of today's highways and interstates), until I run out of fuel and calculate the mileage. Driving at 65mph, instead of 55mph, uses up to 21% more fuel from aerodynamic drag and increased engine speed(less time for proper atomization of the air/fuel mixture)

WHEN I return over 40mpg, I will report back. Which would be real-time evidence(I can record a full length video of this exercise for you even), showing that my statements are indeed valid.

I have already done this, back in 2005, with a 1992 Oldsmobile Achieva, that had a DOHC 2.3L Quad 4 and a 3-speed auto, that went 718 miles on less than it's 15.2 gallon fuel tank, as I still had 1/8-tank left on the return from Southport, IN. and that car still had a catalytic converter I could have chopped off and got even better mileage.

I also will not have to worry about the $2,500 parts cost of replacing the battery pack WHEN it fails, not counting the cost of shop labor to replace it. Batteries do have a lifespan and do not last forever.

https://carbrain.com/Blog/hybrid-bat...or-replacement

I base my opinion on facts. These cars offer no impressive features that make them worth what they will eventually cost the owner in maintenance/repair fees, in comparison to the S-Series.

Tune an engine correctly for efficient, complete burn of the fuel, and you no longer need to fill up as often and you reduce your emissions in the process. No fancy VVT, no turbochargers(although these do help), no expensive hybrid battery packs to deal with, no O2 sensors behind the converter.
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Old 06-04-2018, 11:53 AM   #45
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Default Re: Just How Fast is a Saturn SL2?

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You can also see that we now own a 2010 Prius, which I use primarily for my 80 mile round trip commute.

The S-Series does NOT get similar highway fuel economy to the Prius, unless you consider an approximately 50% difference (40mpg/60mpg) in real world results to be similar.
Quote:
2010 Toyota Prius 48mpg highway. which is lower than what the car averages in the city. The actual tests, for rating to highway fuel economy(before the EPA switched to estimates in 2008), was an average speed of 48mph . . .

WHEN I return over 40mpg, I will report back.
No need to video or report back. MrWhsprs already "gave" you 40 mpg in his comparison of the two cars, and they are based on "real world" driving, not EPA ratings.
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Old 06-04-2018, 12:01 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alordofchaos View Post
No need to video or report back. MrWhsprs already "gave" you 40 mpg in his comparison of the two cars, and they are based on "real world" driving, not EPA ratings.
That's alright, I'll post the video anyway, since after all his claim is typing on keyboard of "real world" driving.
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Old 06-04-2018, 02:00 PM   #47
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Kinda odd how we went from "how fast is a slow car" to "which slow car gets better gas mileage"

I don't envy anyone who chooses to work on a Prius...I'm only doing it to finish paying off a '87 Firebird. Doesn't matter what the MPG is when a Jiffy Lube oil change results in a blown engine that takes 10+ hours to swap because of all the stupid useless crap that's in the way (not to mention over $100 in fluid requirements once I'm done). Kinda sad when an AWD is easier to work on than a FWD...lol
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Old 06-04-2018, 04:07 PM   #48
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Default Re: Just How Fast is a Saturn SL2?

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Kinda odd how we went from "how fast is a slow car" to "which slow car gets better gas mileage"
Post subjects always seem to get manipulated when various members get involved. It's sad, but some people feel a need to insult other manufacturers in an attempt to validate their beliefs.

The tile of the thread "Just how fast is a Saturn SL2"
I think most people who have owned or even driven one (if they are being honest) would say: NOT VERY
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Old 06-04-2018, 04:50 PM   #49
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Default Re: Just How Fast is a Saturn SL2?

Bananas

Bananas provide a variety of vitamins and minerals: Vitamin B6 - 0.5 mg. Manganese - 0.3 mg. Vitamin C - 9 mg. Potassium - 450 mg. Dietary Fiber - 3g. Protein - 1 g. Magnesium - 34 mg. Folate - 25.0 mcg.
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Old 06-04-2018, 04:51 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTS350 View Post
Post subjects always seem to get manipulated when various members get involved. It's sad, but some people feel a need to insult other manufacturers in an attempt to validate their beliefs.

The tile of the thread "Just how fast is a Saturn SL2"
I think most people who have owned or even driven one (if they are being honest) would say: NOT VERY
The greatest accuser of another is the one that is usually guilty themselves. You were offended because I called BMWs "junk"(which they are), and I rightfully proved they are just as junky as anything else, with their own set of problems. Isn't it ironic that the BMWs problem areas often result in excessively high repair bills, that are far more serious than some other cars?

I'm still awaiting a rebuttal to why BMWs are worth that $83,000 price tag to burn oil worse than our $12,000 Saturn 1.9L, while you are pointing fingers.

Here is your chance to invalidate anything I have said about that.

But, I CAN post evidence supporting how the Prius is actually more expensive to own and maintain than an S-Series. And with the proper tuning/build, they are as every bit as fuel efficient and a hybrid.

Maybe I will go buy a 1995 SC1, so I can build the SOHC, and I'll even search for one with an automatic(thus putting myself at a disadvantage for economy and performance).
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Old 06-04-2018, 10:28 PM   #51
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Quote:
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Bananas

Bananas provide a variety of vitamins and minerals: Vitamin B6 - 0.5 mg. Manganese - 0.3 mg. Vitamin C - 9 mg. Potassium - 450 mg. Dietary Fiber - 3g. Protein - 1 g. Magnesium - 34 mg. Folate - 25.0 mcg.
A 5.5 ounce can of V8 juice has just as much potassium.
...and even more aluminum.
...
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Old 06-05-2018, 01:22 AM   #52
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Default Re: Just How Fast is a Saturn SL2?

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Originally Posted by Saturn Night View Post
The greatest accuser of another is the one that is usually guilty themselves. You were offended because I called BMWs "junk"(which they are), and I rightfully proved they are just as junky as anything else, with their own set of problems. Isn't it ironic that the BMWs problem areas often result in excessively high repair bills, that are far more serious than some other cars?

I'm still awaiting a rebuttal to why BMWs are worth that $83,000 price tag to burn oil worse than our $12,000 Saturn 1.9L, while you are pointing fingers.

Here is your chance to invalidate anything I have said about that.

But, I CAN post evidence supporting how the Prius is actually more expensive to own and maintain than an S-Series. And with the proper tuning/build, they are as every bit as fuel efficient and a hybrid.

Maybe I will go buy a 1995 SC1, so I can build the SOHC, and I'll even search for one with an automatic(thus putting myself at a disadvantage for economy and performance).
It's ironic that you post yet another rant against BMWs further proving my point.

As far as me being offended by you calling BMWs Junk
I'm sure I speak for BMW as well as Jaguar, Mercedes, Lexus, Infinity and Toyota (I noticed you don't care for these and many other manufacturers) when I say:
There is nothing YOU could say to offend me.
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Old 06-05-2018, 06:59 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by GTS350 View Post
It's ironic that you post yet another rant against BMWs further proving my point.

As far as me being offended by you calling BMWs Junk
I'm sure I speak for BMW as well as Jaguar, Mercedes, Lexus, Infinity and Toyota (I noticed you don't care for these and many other manufacturers) when I say:
There is nothing YOU could say to offend me.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/junk

Definition 1b: "b : something of poor quality."

So, for intense purposes of accuracy, can this definition be applied to an $83,000 automobile, that can't even make itself out of its own warranty period, before blowing the engine?

Well, I guess that depends on one's perception of poor quality. To me, if I am going to spend as much as buying a house, for a car, I would say it is of poor quality when the engine fails before 100,000 miles. This would be of "poor quality", and thus be defined as "junk". Chrysler products fall into this category, but for transmission failures. Same difference. Either one makes the vehicle incapable of its primary purpose, which is transporting us around.

And just because I don't like the Prius, has no bearing on how I feel about Toyota as a brand. Toyota actually makes pretty decent vehicles, including the engines that were used in the Pontiac Vibe/Toyota Matrix. So, please feel free to not add words to my mouth.

However, what we can conclude by your signature and defensive posting, that you seem to think differently about overpriced, overrated brand of BMW. And that is fine.
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Last edited by Saturn Night; 06-05-2018 at 07:05 AM.
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Old 06-05-2018, 03:31 PM   #54
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Default Re: Just How Fast is a Saturn SL2?

Oh, gas mileage, a game my gas-only 5 speed manual Insight can play and win.


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Old 06-05-2018, 06:18 PM   #55
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Oh, gas mileage, a game my gas-only 5 speed manual Insight can play and win.


The Honda Insight was an amazing production vehicle, which is not surprising because it was manufactured by Honda.

However, it is not a "gas-only" 5-speed manual vehicle. They are hybrid vehicles, with a 67hp, 1.0L gasoline engine that is aided by a 13hp electric drive motor.

They do average very impressive fuel economy, more than the Prius or the S-Series, and have an impressive drag coefficient of only 0.25(the first gen SC is 0.30 or about the same as the 1982-1992 Camaro/Firebird F-Body cars).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Insight
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Old 06-05-2018, 06:56 PM   #56
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However, it is not a "gas-only" 5-speed manual vehicle. They are hybrid vehicles, with a 67hp, 1.0L gasoline engine that is aided by a 13hp electric drive motor.

My Insight is gas-only as its hybrid battery is removed and bypassed.

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Old 06-05-2018, 08:16 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturn Night View Post
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/junk

Definition 1b: "b : something of poor quality."

So, for intense purposes of accuracy, can this definition be applied to an $83,000 automobile, that can't even make itself out of its own warranty period, before blowing the engine?

Well, I guess that depends on one's perception of poor quality. To me, if I am going to spend as much as buying a house, for a car, I would say it is of poor quality when the engine fails before 100,000 miles. This would be of "poor quality", and thus be defined as "junk". Chrysler products fall into this category, but for transmission failures. Same difference. Either one makes the vehicle incapable of its primary purpose, which is transporting us around.

And just because I don't like the Prius, has no bearing on how I feel about Toyota as a brand. Toyota actually makes pretty decent vehicles, including the engines that were used in the Pontiac Vibe/Toyota Matrix. So, please feel free to not add words to my mouth.

However, what we can conclude by your signature and defensive posting, that you seem to think differently about overpriced, overrated brand of BMW. And that is fine.
Wow, what a surprise another rant. I'm not about to argue with you about something you know nothing about. You can't conclude anything so don't try. I have owned several BMWs, each was purchased used and later sold for more than I paid. All of them were great cars. I purchased my recent E36 used 10 years ago (it's worth about twice what I paid for it then) and like all the others it too has been a great car to own and more so (something you obviously can't understand) an AMAZING car to drive.
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Old 06-05-2018, 08:29 PM   #58
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Default Re: Just How Fast is a Saturn SL2?

don't mind me, just throwing some fuel on the fire

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Old 06-05-2018, 09:25 PM   #59
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^ Been 'dere, done 'dat; http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...ns#post2271031 .......with similar results.....
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Old 06-05-2018, 11:51 PM   #60
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^ Been 'dere, done 'dat; http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...ns#post2271031 .......with similar results.....
Oh, that would be yet another thread where I was able to show evidence supporting my claims as valid, to which I wasn't refuted.
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