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Old 05-06-2018, 08:30 PM   #21
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Default Re: Just How Fast is a Saturn SL2?

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Originally Posted by Nekomimi View Post
This mythical smoke screen I keep seeing mentioned every so often, is it Dohc specific?
DOHCs have a greater tendency to destroy the valve guides and thus the valve stem seals get worn at about 140,000-180,000. Cams are too aggressive for the engine's displacement. Too much heat and not enough cool oil volume flowong through the head. Multiple-valve-per-cylinder engine typically have issues with increased oil consumption through the valves.
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Old 05-06-2018, 08:34 PM   #22
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We can reliably beat most modern subcompact cars and almost all contemporary compacts. Also priuses, but does that really count?
Yes, because the Saturn S-Series gets similar highway fuel economy to the Prius. The difference is that we don't get a free dental dam with our vehicle purchase or the free pack of tampons.....
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Old 05-07-2018, 02:42 PM   #23
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Default Re: Just How Fast is a Saturn SL2?

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Yes, because the Saturn S-Series gets similar highway fuel economy to the Prius. The difference is that we don't get a free dental dam with our vehicle purchase or the free pack of tampons.....
Tell us how you really feel about Priuses
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Old 05-07-2018, 05:38 PM   #24
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Default Re: Just How Fast is a Saturn SL2?

My SL2 ran a 17.7 at 78 ish mph.

My GLH ran a 13.2 at 117 mph with a horrible 2.5 60 ft time.
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Old 05-08-2018, 04:17 PM   #25
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My SL2 ran a 17.7 at 78 ish mph.

My GLH ran a 13.2 at 117 mph with a horrible 2.5 60 ft time.
My SC2 ran a 17.2538 @ 77.91mph, at Quaker City Motorsports Park last year. That was with oil consumption to the rate of 1qt/100mi.

With auto and healthy engine they are a 16.5ish in the qtr mile.
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Old 05-08-2018, 04:56 PM   #26
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Nobody mentioned Low Saturn's old '91 SL2?

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Old 05-09-2018, 01:46 AM   #27
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My 1994 Sl2 5 speed had some zip to it. Was curious on the speed limiter, it was 114. Got there without a hitch. My friend has a 2013 BMW 328i, raced him 0-60 and the Saturn was only down by half a car length, probably since I was driving manual and had some wheel slippage in first. But we did a 20 roll up to 80 and I whooped him. Look on his face was priceless.
You should have told him you were racing
Since you didn't say otherwise I will assume your 1994 SL2 was stock, so it was a 8.4 second 0-60mph car (when new).
If the driver of the BMW was trying there is no way you would be anywhere near a 2013 328i from 0-60 even with an autobox its a 5.9 second 0-60 car (5.7 MT) and the only way you could even get close from 20-80 was if he had a manual trans and started the runs in 4th gear.
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Old 05-09-2018, 11:02 PM   #28
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You should have told him you were racing
Since you didn't say otherwise I will assume your 1994 SL2 was stock, so it was a 8.4 second 0-60mph car (when new).
If the driver of the BMW was trying there is no way you would be anywhere near a 2013 328i from 0-60 even with an autobox its a 5.9 second 0-60 car (5.7 MT) and the only way you could even get close from 20-80 was if he had a manual trans and started the runs in 4th gear.
Would this be before or after the plastic water pump impeller was destroyed and overheating the BMW engine?

I have seen the 318s run pretty hard, against my 1993 Grand Am which had the Quad OHC and a 5-speed. I didn't stand a chance after the turbo kicked in, but while he was under the turbo lag, it was a different story.
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Old 05-09-2018, 11:53 PM   #29
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Default Re: Just How Fast is a Saturn SL2?

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Would this be before or after the plastic water pump impeller was destroyed and overheating the BMW engine?

I have seen the 318s run pretty hard, against my 1993 Grand Am which had the Quad OHC and a 5-speed. I didn't stand a chance after the turbo kicked in, but while he was under the turbo lag, it was a different story.
The 318i , 318is and 318ti (there is no 318s) never came with a turbo it was a normally aspirated 4cyl economy model and they were SLOW 0-60 somewhere between a SL1 and SL2
BMW switched from plastic to a stronger and lighter composite impellers with the e36 in the 90's. In the same way Saturn switched the materials on the ECTS when the plastic failed.
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Old 05-10-2018, 12:29 PM   #30
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Happy Re: Just How Fast is a Saturn SL2?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTS350 View Post
The 318i , 318is and 318ti (there is no 318s) never came with a turbo it was a normally aspirated 4cyl economy model and they were SLOW 0-60 somewhere between a SL1 and SL2
BMW switched from plastic to a stronger and lighter composite impellers with the e36 in the 90's. In the same way Saturn switched the materials on the ECTS when the plastic failed.
https://www.change.org/p/bmw-transpo...ic-water-pumps

So, this petition was started 3 years ago, which would have been 2015.....

http://casestudies.atlanticmotorcar....at-to-prevent/

This article was written in 2016.......

Gee, I don't know if I should keep using my STEEL-impellered water pump in my Saturn S-series. It only has 191,000+ miles on it......

So, water pump replacement: Now a part of "Regularly-Scheduled Maintenance" on BMWs

And when I mentioned the "318s", that would be a plural noun. I have seen plenty of 318 model junk heaps around my parts. People buy the overpriced/overrated brand, as a form of status in my area and show it off like a badge of honor or pride.

Junk is junk, in my opinion, regardless of performance or price.
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Old 05-12-2018, 02:28 AM   #31
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Default Re: Just How Fast is a Saturn SL2?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturn Night View Post
https://www.change.org/p/bmw-transpo...ic-water-pumps

So, this petition was started 3 years ago, which would have been 2015.....

http://casestudies.atlanticmotorcar....at-to-prevent/

This article was written in 2016.......

Gee, I don't know if I should keep using my STEEL-impellered water pump in my Saturn S-series. It only has 191,000+ miles on it......

So, water pump replacement: Now a part of "Regularly-Scheduled Maintenance" on BMWs

And when I mentioned the "318s", that would be a plural noun. I have seen plenty of 318 model junk heaps around my parts. People buy the overpriced/overrated brand, as a form of status in my area and show it off like a badge of honor or pride.

Junk is junk, in my opinion, regardless of performance or price.
The first article is about one of their electric water pumps and the failure is with the electronics.
The second article is about a small group of pumps in one of the 540 series and the failed item is a bearing.
I'm not excusing them, but it wasn't the impeller.

I don't understand where your hatred for BMW came from. Earlier in this thread you said:
Quote:
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I have seen the 318s run pretty hard, against my 1993 Grand Am which had the Quad OHC and a 5-speed. I didn't stand a chance after the turbo kicked in, but while he was under the turbo lag, it was a different story.
Now you call them overrated overpriced junk heaps. Are you just sad that you found out your "1993 Grand Am which had the Quad OHC and a 5-speed" was beat by one of the slowest modern day normally aspirated BMWs ever made?
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Old 05-12-2018, 01:26 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by GTS350 View Post
The first article is about one of their electric water pumps and the failure is with the electronics.
The second article is about a small group of pumps in one of the 540 series and the failed item is a bearing.
I'm not excusing them, but it wasn't the impeller.

I don't understand where your hatred for BMW came from. Earlier in this thread you said:


Now you call them overrated overpriced junk heaps. Are you just sad that you found out your "1993 Grand Am which had the Quad OHC and a 5-speed" was beat by one of the slowest modern day normally aspirated BMWs ever made?
The BMW owner should be thrilled that his car beat a 115 HP Quad OHC, which still has no bearing on their engineering designs being faulty or my assessment of why people buy their garbage brand of junk heaps.

Just because I honestly and truthfully state that one outperformed me and what O was driving is not going to male me overlook the overall lack of quality used to build that junk.....

You can take a 5 lbs. pile of dog poo, and move it from a brown paper bag to a 1-gallon bucket. You still have a 5 lbs. pile of dog poo, regardless of how you package it up.

Wisdom is needed to understand what I am saying with that.
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Old 05-13-2018, 11:10 PM   #33
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Default Re: Just How Fast is a Saturn SL2?

Quote:
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The BMW owner should be thrilled that his car beat a 115 HP Quad OHC, which still has no bearing on their engineering designs being faulty or my assessment of why people buy their garbage brand of junk heaps.
You brought it up. I doubt there is a BMW owner anywhere all that thrilled about beating a "1993 Grand Am which had the Quad OHC and a 5-speed"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturn Night View Post
Just because I honestly and truthfully state that one outperformed me and what O was driving is not going to male me overlook the overall lack of quality used to build that junk.....
Overlooking the overall lack of spell check; Just because you don't understand a car and it's brand doesn't mean you need to call it junk. This is the same ignorance Saturn owners have always had to deal with.

I have yet to need all that much wisdom to understand anything I've seen you post.
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Old 05-14-2018, 04:27 PM   #34
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Default Re: Just How Fast is a Saturn SL2?

You are aware that BMW is actually one of the leading offenders, for engine oil consumption, with their latest 7-series and the "10,000-mile OCI" they claim you can do with their engines, right?


Calling junk "junk" is what it is. I will call the Quad OHC in my Grand am "junk", due its inability to keep a water pump or cylinder head on it because Quad 4s were known for water pump failures and cylinder head cracks.

The difference between the two brands? Nobody brags and shows off a 1993 Grand Am to make their friends and family jealous. If a person buys an old, beat up Pontiac(or most lower-end GM/Ford/Chrysler platforms), it is likely more towards they needed cheap transportation. You also didn't pay $40k for that 1993 Grand Am, brand new, let alone used.

Point and case is this: Back up what you claim to sell, which BMW fails miserably at doing. They put on the image of being a luxury, high-end brand, and charges for it by MSRP.


Too bad their quality is just as bad as some of the worst that ever came from a GM assembly plant, here in the states.........

Oh and to back up my claim about the oil consumption issues.....as BMW has officially outranked even Saturn S-Series in this category, now:

https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/...tion/index.htm

https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-...-class-action/

With an MSRP of $83,650 to as much as $139,350 for the highest-priced model of 2019 7-series, it is an accurate assessment to call brands like this "Junk" that should be avoided. And i see no issues with somebody ragging on these brands for having those issues. If you can charge and find customers willing to pay $84,000 for an automobile, guess what, you can spend $84,000 on better designs and fixing your engineering defects.

Sorry, but one paying 83,000+ for a car should not have issues like people that pay $12,000 for a car.
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Old 05-15-2018, 11:53 PM   #35
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I don't mean to step on toes, but I've noticed many people herein who seem to feel that it is ok to call people out as liars and imply that they don't know what they're talking about.

We all know that anyone can find enough information on the internet to support whatever view he may have, right, wrong, or sheer idiocy.

I personally have been "attacked" many times in these forums and, though I was never specifically called a liar or idiot, the implication was quite evident; specific case above where I said I beat an SHO in a stop-light race. The person responding, whom wasn't there, said it wasn't possible and implied that I was an idiot in thinking that I had won, because it couldn't happen.

Another case in point; I have a masters degree in electrical engineering, and worked for the government until retirement designing electrical circuitry for warcraft. I never had a failure. I've owned 4 Gen1 S-series, and am quite adept at research and reading a schematic. But I was told by someone in here that I didn't know what I was talking about, and it was implied that
my modifications would burn up either an ignition switch or a circuit in the fuse panel.

I never had ANY of those problems on any Saturn I've ever had! But it was implied that I was an idiot for even think to try it. Rather than try and understand what I was trying to accomplish, I was told that my thinking was wrong.

I get the impression that there are more than enough chief's in here whom take great pride in strutting their own perceived importance, while trying to make the rest of us out as stupid.

I have stated in here before that when we ask a question, we rarely get answers. Rather, we are told what to do because the person responding would never do it our way, rather than help with what we want in the first place. Case in point; when asked how to trouble shoot my mouse belts, I was told "Don't bother, just replace them with '95 parts". And when I found the solution, it was implied that I followed so-and-so's ideas, and had no independent thought of my own.

When I see that certain individuals herein reply to nearly every post multiple times, I often wonder where those people get the time. Do they have real lives, or is this their life? I myself find it difficult to stop by these forums twice a week. I get the impression that the people who live in here speak as they do to feel good about themselves, and they believe that no one should ever disagree with them. I think that many here can only feel good by downputting those around him, to imply that he himself is better. Is this insecurity or arrogance? Is arrogance an insecurity?

I don't ask many questions in here, because there's rarely any answers to be had where someone replying to the post doesn't imply that his solution is right, and my idea is wrong and that I was stupid for even thinking of it.

Left to the chief's in here, we would all be driving unmodified, bone-stock cars with nothing showing of our own individual personality.

Do I sound resentful?
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Old 05-16-2018, 01:52 AM   #36
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I wonder if anyone read your initial post - "I really didn't expect that my '94 SL2 HCE would stand up against him, since he has a 3.0 litre 24 valve Yamaha V-6 with a 5-speed stick. But it turned out that in about 200-300 feet, I had a healthy 3-5 car lead on him, and all he could see were my taillights." My two nephews noticed some years ago that their mom's Nissan Sentra 1.8L 4cyl has better off the line acceleration than my 3.0L V6. I was stunned and lost for words until I thought about it later. My car weighs around 3200 lbs while the Sentra weighs about 2600 lbs, a difference of 800 lbs. I drove the Sentra numerous times and noticed off the line is better than my L300. I believe its not just weight but a better 1st gear in the Sentra. While I was a little annoyed I never considered my car a street racer, more a sedan for cruising the highways in airconditioned comfort instead of needing a shower before and after driving in hot summer heat. My choice for a V6 is based on a previous inline 6cyl 2-seat sports car, a V6 wagon and now my V6 L300. Just enough power for good speed while the ac doesn't load the engine down as it does in 4cyl engines with low to moderate power.

I suspect your lighter car weight and gearing had the advantage in the first 200-300 feet. Engine health also makes a difference.

I've seen "too may chiefs and no indians" over the years.

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Old 05-16-2018, 02:37 AM   #37
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Default Re: Just How Fast is a Saturn SL2?

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Do I sound resentful?
No, but with all due respect, this is the internet. You're on a particularly small, old-school BBS populated by people who feel very passionate about a car most other folks dismiss out of hand. A lot of the people here also run in drag racing circles or are passionate about american-made cars in general, both hobbies that tend to feed strong emotional reasoning. Some of it's right, some of it's misinformed, and some of it's just superstition. If someone goes off on you here (and it will probably happen again), just disengage when you want to. It's never personal: you're just a name on the screen to them, as open to interpretation as the talking heads on the evening news. Saturns are weird and quirky; we're also weird and quirky, mostly for the best but not always.
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Old 05-16-2018, 07:29 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrestonIII View Post
I don't mean to step on toes, but I've noticed many people herein who seem to feel that it is ok to call people out as liars and imply that they don't know what they're talking about.

We all know that anyone can find enough information on the internet to support whatever view he may have, right, wrong, or sheer idiocy.

I personally have been "attacked" many times in these forums and, though I was never specifically called a liar or idiot, the implication was quite evident; specific case above where I said I beat an SHO in a stop-light race. The person responding, whom wasn't there, said it wasn't possible and implied that I was an idiot in thinking that I had won, because it couldn't happen.

Another case in point; I have a masters degree in electrical engineering, and worked for the government until retirement designing electrical circuitry for warcraft. I never had a failure. I've owned 4 Gen1 S-series, and am quite adept at research and reading a schematic. But I was told by someone in here that I didn't know what I was talking about, and it was implied that
my modifications would burn up either an ignition switch or a circuit in the fuse panel.

I never had ANY of those problems on any Saturn I've ever had! But it was implied that I was an idiot for even think to try it. Rather than try and understand what I was trying to accomplish, I was told that my thinking was wrong.

I get the impression that there are more than enough chief's in here whom take great pride in strutting their own perceived importance, while trying to make the rest of us out as stupid.

I have stated in here before that when we ask a question, we rarely get answers. Rather, we are told what to do because the person responding would never do it our way, rather than help with what we want in the first place. Case in point; when asked how to trouble shoot my mouse belts, I was told "Don't bother, just replace them with '95 parts". And when I found the solution, it was implied that I followed so-and-so's ideas, and had no independent thought of my own.

When I see that certain individuals herein reply to nearly every post multiple times, I often wonder where those people get the time. Do they have real lives, or is this their life? I myself find it difficult to stop by these forums twice a week. I get the impression that the people who live in here speak as they do to feel good about themselves, and they believe that no one should ever disagree with them. I think that many here can only feel good by downputting those around him, to imply that he himself is better. Is this insecurity or arrogance? Is arrogance an insecurity?

I don't ask many questions in here, because there's rarely any answers to be had where someone replying to the post doesn't imply that his solution is right, and my idea is wrong and that I was stupid for even thinking of it.

Left to the chief's in here, we would all be driving unmodified, bone-stock cars with nothing showing of our own individual personality.

Do I sound resentful?

It's the internet, and some "chiefs" are schooled and all knowing with their first search. Toss in some BS, some misdirection, and some flat out lies, and they often soon have a following from those too lazy to do that first good search.

Being that you had the background on the SHO and stated that the truck beat you, most saw no reason to question that you either got a strong start or the SHO driver or car were lacking somewhat.


I've found for quite some time on this forum that the most informed and helpful are often those that don't stick their chests out and claim to be the all knowing chief. Those are the ones IMO that overall help the forum members the most. Some of the all knowing chiefs often cost users a lot of extra time or money chasing parts and/or not troubleshooting. Not to mention spreading misinformation as needed to cover their tracks.

For the most part I ignore the chiefs, but some of their posts are pure comedy gold. You just can't spread that much BS without quite a bit of it stinking!
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Old 05-16-2018, 07:36 AM   #39
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If somebody's forum style really bugs you, then use the ignore list in your user control panel. Then their posts are hidden and your blood pressure stays good. If they happen to post "pure comedy gold" someone is bound to quote it in their own post, and you won't miss out.
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Old 05-16-2018, 08:50 AM   #40
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Default Re: Just How Fast is a Saturn SL2?

Gentlemen! I apologize!

LOL, my question of "Do I sound resentful?" was meant to be sarcastic and comedic; even a bit redundant based on the words leading up to it. It was a sarcastic exclamation of of just how serious I take the chief's in here; a kind of reverse psychology.

I apologize for the misunderstanding! It just goes to show how much meaning is lost in text versus a live conversation.

Though what they might say often bites and ruffles my feathers, I am a big boy with thick skin and an education. I am able to sign out and have a life outside of this forum. I'm not sure they can do the same with the same amount of joy that I do.
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