No fuel gauge, no prime. no start.

[Aardvarks]

1st off I wanna say this forum is fantastic and a wonderful wealth of knowledge. Thanks fdryer and far2grumpy for the wealth of knowledge that you 2 have dispensed. I have been a member for a long time and have found the answers (or an idea that led to the answer) here many times.

I have a 2005 3.5L vue with around 135k miles. Two weeks ago it it wouldnt start, after a while of checking basic things it started and ran normally until last night. So here is a description of the intermittent problem (that I hope to keep from becoming a common one.)

Turn the key and everything lights up normally, however the fuel gauge remains off and the fuel pump does not prime. Car turns over well but doesnt attempt to fire as there is no gas. After a few seconds the service soon light (wrench inside the car light) turns on.

The 1st time I checked /swapped fuses and relays, cleaned and disconnected the battery. Checked fuel lines for leaks and topped off the tank thinking that maybe I was mistaken and had run out or had my fuel siphoned. Last night I had no tools at all and after about an hour of reading threads here and randomly trying the ignition it primed, showed fuel level and started like nothing ever happened. I considered a passlock condition but ruled that out due to the fuel pump not priming and the passlock light is not staying on /flashing as described in other threads.

Im not sure where to start as its not a constant problem, so any leads or ideas would be welcome. Its never a good time for this kind of thing but I have a baby due in a week (!!!) So this wont have my full attention but I'll do my best to try things and update progress.

Aardy

[fdryer]

Are you sure the fuel pump isn't priming (cycling on for 2 seconds) every time the ignition switch is turned ON (without starting)? Fuel pump operation is pcm controlled. If I'm not mistaken, the fuel gauge is a bcm function.

[Aardvarks]

Yes Fdryer that is correct neither was functional the times the car failed to start. The 1st time I was under the car listening for the fuel pump to prime while my buddy cycled the key. At that point he noticed the fuel gauge was pegged on empty. I had filled up earlier in the day and driven only about 50 miles. The 2nd time (last night) I was alone in a quiet parking garage. When it didnt start I immediately looked at the fuel gauge and it wasnt working. When I cycled the key I could not hear the pump. Once I got it home I turned it off and on several times and both the gauge and the pump cycled as intended.

[fdryer]

I'm mistaken as the ecm drives gauges and indicators. Perhaps grounds are flaky, loose, corroded?

[Aardvarks]

Thats the direction that I was leaning. Would you suggest the connections on the under hood fuse block? Any where else? The bcm is behind /below the radio correct? Is that a likely suspect?

[fdryer]

Once again I have to correct myself; the ecm drives the fuel gauge and pump, bcm drives the Low Fuel indicator. The following troubleshooting steps require the wiring diagrams. Print and highlight the suggested circuit lines. This is advanced troubleshooting.

I'm not sure which way to go as the fuel gauge is driven by digital signals mixed in with speed, tach and coolant data - serial data sent out over two wires. Nothing to check here. The fuel level signal from the tank goes to the pcm. This may be a starting point to check wiring. On the wiring diagram, wire 1589 (purple) goes from the fuel tank to the pcm. An interruption anywhere in this line would create an erratic signal and may cause your gas gauge symptoms. This covers only the gas gauge interruption. Intermittent failure of the pump may be caused by either a flaky ground connection or pcm/pump circuit.

The fuel pump run signal comes from wire 465 (gn/wh) to power the fuel pump relay. 12v power from a fuse travels from one side of the pump relay contact to another, out on wire 120 (gy) to the pump. Pump ground is wire 850 (bk). G403, a ground splice pack joining several ground wires to a chassis stud is located near fuel tank wiring. Corrosion at this ground connection?

[RobertGary1]

Read the code.

[Aardvarks]

Great info, thx Fdryer! I work the next couple of days, long shifts, so I'll post in a few about what i find.

[Aardvarks]

So I know it's been a long time since I posted last on this thread but I wanted to update. After posting I ended up moving across the country and had a whirlwind of changes in my life. Through it all my 2005 3.5l vue sporadically would chose to start or not depending on its mood. After the move I let it sit for a few months, then took it to a shop for diagnosis. Their diagnosis was along the same lines of one of my theories and though they wanted a small fortune to repair it, I took it home to make the swap myself.
They pointed to the FUSE block going bad but not a specific junction. With this I went to a junkyard and pulled a replacement from a clean donor. I cleaned up the "new" part and went to install. It's been around 6 months since doing this and the car has performed flawlessly ever since. I think it cost me around $20 and an hour of time.
Once again I want to thank this community for its dedication and time spent to help others. Hopefully by completing this thread as "fixed" I too can help other with similar symptoms.

[far2grumpy]

Originally Posted by Aardvarks

So I know it's been a long time since I posted last on this thread but I wanted to update. After posting I ended up moving across the country and had a whirlwind of changes in my life. Through it all my 2005 3.5l vue sporadically would chose to start or not depending on its mood. After the move I let it sit for a few months, then took it to a shop for diagnosis. Their diagnosis was along the same lines of one of my theories and though they wanted a small fortune to repair it, I took it home to make the swap myself.
They pointed to the FUSE block going bad but not a specific junction. With this I went to a junkyard and pulled a replacement from a clean donor. I cleaned up the "new" part and went to install. It's been around 6 months since doing this and the car has performed flawlessly ever since. I think it cost me around $20 and an hour of time.
Once again I want to thank this community for its dedication and time spent to help others. Hopefully by completing this thread as "fixed" I too can help other with similar symptoms.

Its great that you posted some results ... that is a rare thing these days.

Just wondering which fuse block you replaced? Underhood or IP?

[spurkey]

Originally Posted by far2grumpy

Its great that you posted some results ... that is a rare thing these days.

Just wondering which fuse block you replaced? Underhood or IP?

I had this problem with my 2007 3.5L Vue...wouldn't start, fuel gauge showed no fuel when I knew there was at least a quarter tank of gas.

Prior to this happening, the power went out to the cigarette lighter, which I'd been using to power a small air pump. Thinking the cigarette lighter fuse may have blown, I removed the cover to the under-hood fuse box to check the fuse & discovered that a screwed-down plastic plate prevented access to the fuses. This plate was secured with 3 7mm screws. I removed it and checked the cigarette lighter fuse & found it was OK, and then got busy with other stuff. A while later I tried to start my Vue and had this non-start problem, but I didn't connect it with my unscrewing the plate in the fuse box. Unsuccessfully tried to resolve this frustrating problem for a couple of weeks, then I recalled that the nonstart issue had happened right after I took the plate out of the fuse box, so maybe that was the cause. I removed the fuse box cover and tightened down the 3 7mm screws and BINGO! my Vue started right up! So my question is, why did that plate come installed in the fuse box preventing access to the fuses, when removing it caused a big problem? Nothing in the owner's manual alluded to there being a problem in trying to access the fuses.