SaturnFans.com
saturnfans.com - classifieds - forums - webmail


Go Back   SaturnFans.com Forums > Models > Saturn S-Series > S-Series Tech

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-01-2021, 02:25 AM   #1
Catch-TwentyTwo
Member
Catch-TwentyTwo is a glorious beacon of lightCatch-TwentyTwo is a glorious beacon of lightCatch-TwentyTwo is a glorious beacon of lightCatch-TwentyTwo is a glorious beacon of lightCatch-TwentyTwo is a glorious beacon of lightCatch-TwentyTwo is a glorious beacon of light
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 158
 

2002 SL2
Default White Smog Can't Catch a break

The white smoke issue has hit the DMV supposedly someone complained about excessive smog... We just got the letter from the DMV....

I have not seen any smoke for awhile but apparently someone did....

This was midday and HOT so I don't think it can be the water vapor.... I am going to get the combustion leak tester tomorrow....
Catch-TwentyTwo is offline   Reply With Quote
SaturnFans.com Sponsored Links
Old 08-01-2021, 10:51 AM   #2
billr
Master Member
billr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to behold
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,277
Default Re: White Smog Can't Catch a break

What does the DMV require you to do, take it in for a smog-check? Is there a citation from a law-enforcement officer that witnessed the pollution?

If you are not consuming coolant, it might be worthwhile to go for a smog check, or even contest the DMV letter. I'm thinking (hoping) any report from a private citizen is of little real consequence.

PS: the block-check can't hurt (other than cost), but distinguishing white smoke from gray or blue can be kind of subjective, and varies with lighting. That may have been "normal" oil smoke from valve seals or rings; and only for a brief time at startup.
billr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2021, 01:30 PM   #3
Catch-TwentyTwo
Member
Catch-TwentyTwo is a glorious beacon of lightCatch-TwentyTwo is a glorious beacon of lightCatch-TwentyTwo is a glorious beacon of lightCatch-TwentyTwo is a glorious beacon of lightCatch-TwentyTwo is a glorious beacon of lightCatch-TwentyTwo is a glorious beacon of light
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 158
 

2002 SL2
Default Re: White Smog Can't Catch a break

Quote:
Originally Posted by billr View Post
What does the DMV require you to do, take it in for a smog-check? Is there a citation from a law-enforcement officer that witnessed the pollution?
Thank You.

No law-enforcement officer.... Also the car is not throwing any codes to fix... I have seen smoke but not in an excessive amount... We have checked spark plugs which are new, we replaced the Catcon and fuel filter.. No coolant leaks, and has maintained the same level for months (checking every so often) Oil levels have been okay same with transmission fluid levels.

I am going to check the fuel injectors today.


"The Department of Motor Vehicles has received a Smoking Vehicle complaint. The complaint received indicates that the above vehicle was observed emitting excessive visible exhaust emissions on 7/27/2021 at 1:16 PM near road name and road name. Department records indicate that this vehicle is registered in your name.

Driving a vehicle that emits excessive visible emissions is a violation of the Nevada Revised Statute 482.460 and Nevada Administration code 445B.576, which may result in cancelation of your vehicle registration. Local law enforcement agencies, including the Nevada Department of Public Safety may also cite drivers of such vehicles, which ultimately could result in a fine.

If you presently own and operate this vehicle and you find that it does indeed emit excessive visible exhaust emissions, we request that you have the vehicle repaired to correct the issue. Motor vehicle emissions are a major contributor of air pollution. This pollution has an adverse effect on public health and welfare.

Individual efforts such as your own are critical in maintaining healthy air quality. If you have any questions or concerns please contact a member of the Emission Control Program ar (702) 486-4999"
Catch-TwentyTwo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2021, 03:39 PM   #4
billr
Master Member
billr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to behold
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,277
Default Re: White Smog Can't Catch a break

"... you find that it does indeed emit excessive visible exhaust emissions,"

So, it is your call; an advisory only.
billr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2021, 04:42 PM   #5
toggenburg
Master Member
toggenburg has much to be proud oftoggenburg has much to be proud oftoggenburg has much to be proud oftoggenburg has much to be proud oftoggenburg has much to be proud oftoggenburg has much to be proud oftoggenburg has much to be proud oftoggenburg has much to be proud oftoggenburg has much to be proud of
 
toggenburg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Beautiful Blue Ridge Mountains of Bedford, Virginia. Born once? Die twice. ------ Born twice? Die once.
Posts: 3,551

2001 SL1
Default Re: White Smog Can't Catch a break

Billr:
"I'm thinking (hoping) any report from a private citizen is of little real consequence."

Reminds me of a time, a "friendly" neighbor, contacted the Illinois EPA, who sent an investigator to my home.
Said neighbor, told EPA I was burning animal waste to ashes, then using said ashes as LYE to render (saponify) milk to become soap, which then, friendly neighbor stated I was selling said soap to others....EPA came out (3 hour drive each way to visit me) to determine if I were in violation of some health law.

Investigator, came, and left without finding any "finding".

Government of the people, by the people, but definitely NOT for the people.
toggenburg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2021, 06:36 PM   #6
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 45,301
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: White Smog Can't Catch a break

Since the DMV addressed a complaint from a citizen, possibly an irate neighbor presuming their civic duty to inform the DMV of an arbitrary amount of smoke emanating from a vehicle without citing a specific ordnance and the DMV not ordering you to have your vehicle inspected for illegal emissions, nothing can be done. It's moot. Neither the DMV has set forth any regulations and ordered you to appear before them or summoned you to an immediate emissions inspection.

This may possibly be an overreach and fallout from illegal pickup trucks deleting diesel emissions controls - diesel engines modified and spewing large clouds of black exhaust smoke in defiance of diesel emissions controls. Perhaps some citizen believes your exhaust is illegal and wrote a complaint to the DMV, providing your license plate to them.

As you know, your vehicle hasn't turned on its check engine light and passed the last inspection. Unless your vehicle suddenly blew a head basket to create steam (white exhaust) or is now burning excessive motor oil (blue exhaust), this might be a false citizen's complaint.
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2021, 01:33 AM   #7
Catch-TwentyTwo
Member
Catch-TwentyTwo is a glorious beacon of lightCatch-TwentyTwo is a glorious beacon of lightCatch-TwentyTwo is a glorious beacon of lightCatch-TwentyTwo is a glorious beacon of lightCatch-TwentyTwo is a glorious beacon of lightCatch-TwentyTwo is a glorious beacon of light
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 158
 

2002 SL2
Default Re: White Smog Can't Catch a break

I was in the drive thru at Arby's we were waiting a bit idling I saw the white smog, definitely white... I have seen other cars with more smog, but I still want to fix it I got the carb cleaner to hopefully clean up the Idle Air Control Valve.. I also ordered new fuel injectors since they have (to my knowledge) never been replaced.

Thank You !!!
Catch-TwentyTwo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2021, 09:15 AM   #8
fetchitfido
Super Member
fetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant futurefetchitfido has a brilliant future
 
fetchitfido's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 15,013
 

2001 SC2
Default Re: White Smog Can't Catch a break

If your state/city doesn't do a sniffer test direct in the exhaust pipe, I'd kindly tell them to take a long walk off a short pier.

Without a proper "before" test baseline, there's no way to verify there's anything that needs fixing and no way to verify a fix has been done.
fetchitfido is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2021, 11:25 AM   #9
RobertGary1
Master Member
RobertGary1 is a name known to allRobertGary1 is a name known to allRobertGary1 is a name known to allRobertGary1 is a name known to allRobertGary1 is a name known to allRobertGary1 is a name known to all
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 4,327
 

1996 SC2
2006 VUE 3.5L
Default Re: White Smog Can't Catch a break

Snitches get stitches
RobertGary1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2021, 11:58 AM   #10
Catch-TwentyTwo
Member
Catch-TwentyTwo is a glorious beacon of lightCatch-TwentyTwo is a glorious beacon of lightCatch-TwentyTwo is a glorious beacon of lightCatch-TwentyTwo is a glorious beacon of lightCatch-TwentyTwo is a glorious beacon of lightCatch-TwentyTwo is a glorious beacon of light
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 158
 

2002 SL2
Default Re: White Smog Can't Catch a break

Quote:
Originally Posted by fetchitfido View Post
If your state/city doesn't do a sniffer test direct in the exhaust pipe, I'd kindly tell them to take a long walk off a short pier.

Without a proper "before" test baseline, there's no way to verify there's anything that needs fixing and no way to verify a fix has been done.
The annoying part is not having any codes thrown...

I was thinking about the catcon, the original completely failed and blocked the exhaust.... We replaced it using the bolts (no welding bs lol) could whatever the catcon is made of, could it be causing this issue?

They use the OBD port and visual of smoke, and glance at the motor to see if any sensor was bypassed...

Last edited by Catch-TwentyTwo; 08-02-2021 at 12:00 PM. Reason: type o
Catch-TwentyTwo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2021, 12:24 PM   #11
billr
Master Member
billr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to behold
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,277
Default Re: White Smog Can't Catch a break

If you slobbered on a lot of lube/anti-seize while changing the cat, then that might cause smoke/odor for a few days/miles. I don't think the cat itself will create smoke, no matter what its condition or how it has failed.

You don't know where or when this alleged smoke observation was made, or the intensity/duration. It is akin to school yard tattling, and I would ignore.
billr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2021, 02:20 PM   #12
Catch-TwentyTwo
Member
Catch-TwentyTwo is a glorious beacon of lightCatch-TwentyTwo is a glorious beacon of lightCatch-TwentyTwo is a glorious beacon of lightCatch-TwentyTwo is a glorious beacon of lightCatch-TwentyTwo is a glorious beacon of lightCatch-TwentyTwo is a glorious beacon of light
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 158
 

2002 SL2
Default Re: White Smog Can't Catch a break

Quote:
Originally Posted by billr View Post
If you slobbered on a lot of lube/anti-seize while changing the cat, then that might cause smoke/odor for a few days/miles. I don't think the cat itself will create smoke, no matter what its condition or how it has failed.

You don't know where or when this alleged smoke observation was made, or the intensity/duration. It is akin to school yard tattling, and I would ignore.
The letter from the DMV did give date/time but my dashcam had already recorded over it.

The original Catcon failed, I was thinking that some of it went into the muffler... or the fiberglass that holds the unit in place
Catch-TwentyTwo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2021, 04:23 PM   #13
billr
Master Member
billr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to behold
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,277
Default Re: White Smog Can't Catch a break

I gotta ask... what would the dashcam show that would be helpful regarding this issue? I can think of only three possibilities:

1) you took a "picture" of the DMV letter with the dashcam, then threw away the paper original

2) a huge cloud of smoke came out, billowing forward enough to engulf the front of the car and be caught by the dashcam

3) the dashcam shows some other person, probably the complainer, "gesturing" at you or otherwise showing displeasure with you or your car
billr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2021, 09:59 PM   #14
Catch-TwentyTwo
Member
Catch-TwentyTwo is a glorious beacon of lightCatch-TwentyTwo is a glorious beacon of lightCatch-TwentyTwo is a glorious beacon of lightCatch-TwentyTwo is a glorious beacon of lightCatch-TwentyTwo is a glorious beacon of lightCatch-TwentyTwo is a glorious beacon of light
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 158
 

2002 SL2
Default Re: White Smog Can't Catch a break

Quote:
Originally Posted by billr View Post
I gotta ask... what would the dashcam show that would be helpful regarding this issue? I can think of only three possibilities:

1) you took a "picture" of the DMV letter with the dashcam, then threw away the paper original

2) a huge cloud of smoke came out, billowing forward enough to engulf the front of the car and be caught by the dashcam

3) the dashcam shows some other person, probably the complainer, "gesturing" at you or otherwise showing displeasure with you or your car
4) to see IF we were at the location/time the report claims....
Catch-TwentyTwo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2021, 11:18 AM   #15
cgg17
Advanced Member
cgg17 is just really nicecgg17 is just really nicecgg17 is just really nicecgg17 is just really nicecgg17 is just really nice
 
cgg17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 813

1995 SL2
1995 SW2
Default Re: White Smog Can't Catch a break

If the car passes the regular smog and emissions checks, I would just ignore it. I cannot believe somebody reported your car for smoking, it is as if they have nothing better to do.
...
1994 Sl2 5spd First Car, Stock: 56,576 (Totaled 1/10/2018)
1995 Sl2 5spd: Retired Daily, Not Stock: 192,000
1998 Sl2 5spd: Family Car, Stock :135,000
1995 SW2 4spd: Daily, Stock: 91,000
cgg17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2021, 01:00 PM   #16
Catch-TwentyTwo
Member
Catch-TwentyTwo is a glorious beacon of lightCatch-TwentyTwo is a glorious beacon of lightCatch-TwentyTwo is a glorious beacon of lightCatch-TwentyTwo is a glorious beacon of lightCatch-TwentyTwo is a glorious beacon of lightCatch-TwentyTwo is a glorious beacon of light
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 158
 

2002 SL2
Default Re: White Smog Can't Catch a break

New Catcon
Fuel Filter
The engine temp sensor
4 new Fuel Injectors

Ordered The Idle air control valve..

Idle at park 1000 RPM
Idle at neutral 1000 RPM
Idle in drive 800 RPM

Idle in drive dips to 700 RPM and sounds like it wants to die...
Catch-TwentyTwo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2021, 01:41 PM   #17
mattwithcats
Senior Member
mattwithcats is a jewel in the roughmattwithcats is a jewel in the roughmattwithcats is a jewel in the roughmattwithcats is a jewel in the rough
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,775

2002 SL2
Default Re: White Smog Can't Catch a break

Numerous problems exist with this process...

First, proof of delivery.
How does the DMV know you received the letter?
Official letters should be sent registered mail, return receipt, or by process server...

Second, does it have a Judges signature? Does it have a court date?

Third, what manner of reparation do they want you to perform?


I would send them a receipt for a bottle of Techron, and call it a day...
...
2002 Silver SL2, manual, 5th gear swap (.605), 80,000 miles, black badges,
205/60R15 "H" rated tires, 5mm spacers rear...
Pennzoil Maximum Power 0W-30, Champion COS3600...
NGK BKR6E-11 spark plugs
mattwithcats is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2021, 01:47 PM   #18
Catch-TwentyTwo
Member
Catch-TwentyTwo is a glorious beacon of lightCatch-TwentyTwo is a glorious beacon of lightCatch-TwentyTwo is a glorious beacon of lightCatch-TwentyTwo is a glorious beacon of lightCatch-TwentyTwo is a glorious beacon of lightCatch-TwentyTwo is a glorious beacon of light
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 158
 

2002 SL2
Default Re: White Smog Can't Catch a break

I installed the Idle air control valve.... No improvement and in drive its worse 1 ARGH
Catch-TwentyTwo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2021, 03:41 PM   #19
billr
Master Member
billr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to behold
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,277
Default Re: White Smog Can't Catch a break

The subject of this thread has morphed from "smog Nazi" to "poor idle". Let's get back to basics:

Have you checked compression and fuel pressure?

Have you used live-data (or other) to check the TP, MAP, VSS, ECT, IAT, EGR, and IAC?
billr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2021, 09:14 PM   #20
Catch-TwentyTwo
Member
Catch-TwentyTwo is a glorious beacon of lightCatch-TwentyTwo is a glorious beacon of lightCatch-TwentyTwo is a glorious beacon of lightCatch-TwentyTwo is a glorious beacon of lightCatch-TwentyTwo is a glorious beacon of lightCatch-TwentyTwo is a glorious beacon of light
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 158
 

2002 SL2
Default Re: White Smog Can't Catch a break

Quote:
Originally Posted by billr View Post
The subject of this thread has morphed from "smog Nazi" to "poor idle". Let's get back to basics:

Have you checked compression and fuel pressure?

Have you used live-data (or other) to check the TP, MAP, VSS, ECT, IAT, EGR, and IAC?
I have a Zurich Z11 but haven't used it a lot... I am used to the Car MD but doesn't have all the live data....

I cleaned the throttle body OMG the carbon build up... I replaced the Throttle position sensor and the Idle air control valve (installed before but made it worse, put the old one back on until I could take the throttle body out to clean it)

Fuel pressure is fine, since putting the new fuel filter in the car starts first try every time...

There are 3 wire clips 2 for the throttle body, and one below the throttle body sensors... What does that go to ?

Is there a way to clean the pipe below the throttle body? My brother wiped it with no chemicals and it was built up... he got what he could see but didn't want to do anything wrong to it....
Catch-TwentyTwo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
PCV catch can... mattwithcats S-Series General 1 04-11-2015 03:21 PM
catch can kydanny S-Series Tech 3 07-30-2012 11:54 PM
2 questions...catch can/intake on exhaust side and smog saturnsl293 S-Series Mods 7 04-05-2010 12:58 AM
I passed HALF the smog? My smog trouble continues. :( amazinghl S-Series Tech 25 09-12-2003 01:14 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:35 PM.

Advanced Forum Search | Advanced Photo Search


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
SaturnFans.com. The Saturn Enthusiasts Site.