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Old 03-14-2013, 09:57 AM   #21
Rogerrp
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2003 VUE 2.2L
Default Re: 2003 Vue FWD 4CL. P0302 Misfire. Spontaneous recovery, then back to problem

Update:
While car/engine runs much better in gear, the problem of hesitation continues for 10 minutes after starting the engine cold in the morning. Coolant pump goes on repeatedly during this time.

More info:
Got AdvancedAuto to check the battery and they read 12.28 V with a message of "Good but Recharge". Also, rpms shoot up from 800 to 1100 for a couple of seconds if I turn on the heater. Is this normal?
Will get my neighbor's recharger to run overnight on my battery asap. But, how likely that this is a battery related problem?

Also, rockauto sent the wrong boots for the spark plugs. Oil change and throttle body cleaning this weekend. Will swap fuel injector from cyl 2 to 3 this time.

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Old 03-14-2013, 04:42 PM   #22
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Default Re: 2003 Vue FWD 4CL. P0302 Misfire. Spontaneous recovery, then back to problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogerrp View Post
Update:
...........
Will get my neighbor's recharger to run overnight on my battery asap. But, how likely that this is a battery related problem?
....
While reading one of Far2grumpys service manual postings, it mention that the car monitors battery voltage, and if too low, the rpms go up to compensate. Same sort of thing happens when you turn heat on high, high load need more rpms to produce more power.
If battery was new, then I'd also look at alternator and connections....I had the exact problem you did with battery voltage...battery being marginal caused all sorts of problems for me. New battery, replaced battery posts and cleaning = no problems.
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Old 03-26-2013, 04:11 PM   #23
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2003 VUE 2.2L
Default Re: 2003 Vue FWD 4CL. P0302 Misfire. Spontaneous recovery, then back to problem

Update:
New battery, charged and holding charge. Car asking for 60 mA with everything off. I deduce from this that there is no excessive drainage.
Replaced IAT sensor. Took Throttle body out and cleaned front and back. Replaced TB gasket with new one.

Temperature in Boston now above freezing.

Result: Car keeps improving. Still bad idle. Gets better when warm. No misfires, just hesitation in idle. SES light off.
New thing, rpms when turning engine on jump to 2000 for 10 to 20s (feels like a long time), then slowly come down and hesitation starts. No hesitation at high rpms even with cold engine at idle. Drives very well in gear.

My current guess: Due to the apparent link between cold temperature and idle problem: Engine coolant temperature sensor problem. Got the part and just learned how much of a pain it will be to access the sensor and replace it on the 2.2l ecotec saturn 2003. Will try this weekend.

What else could it be?
A bad fuel injector, valve, vacuum leak do not go away as outside temperature goes from 20 to 30F, do they?

R
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Old 03-26-2013, 05:49 PM   #24
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Default Re: 2003 Vue FWD 4CL. P0302 Misfire. Spontaneous recovery, then back to problem

Glad to hear it is improving. Mine goes up to 1500rpm in cold weather starts...slightly warmer here. Guess your alternator is working well?
At high rpms, a small vacuum leak isn't as big of a problem at lower rpms...what does the car idle at?
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Old 03-26-2013, 05:58 PM   #25
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Default Re: 2003 Vue FWD 4CL. P0302 Misfire. Spontaneous recovery, then back to problem

The 60 ma draw may be caused by the bcm keeping the mileage displayed on the instrument cluster. After about a half hour, it should drop down into a normal range.

I'm kind of leaning toward an injector that may be partially plugged, has the misfire moved at all sinced you swapped injectors around?
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Old 03-26-2013, 06:04 PM   #26
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Default Re: 2003 Vue FWD 4CL. P0302 Misfire. Spontaneous recovery, then back to problem

Alternator tested at AAP and working fine.
60 mA do not worry me as it falls within acceptable range.
Have not swapped the injectors yet, in part due to the lack of misfires recently. Also, I am running Seafoam through the fuel line (confounding factor, I know).
Car idles at 700 when warm, 800-900 for the first 10-20 minutes of idle (with the exception of the first minute, which as I explained, start at 2000 and slowly comes down).

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Old 04-02-2013, 04:22 PM   #27
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2003 VUE 2.2L
Default Re: 2003 Vue FWD 4CL. P0302 Misfire. Spontaneous recovery, then back to problem

Update:
ECT sensor replaced. Old one dirty. Pic attached.
Coil boots /wire replaced, also dirty (but not cracked, just gunk).

No difference.

Again, when warm, this car works better than ever (probably due to the few things that I have cleaned and replaced in the last two months). However, when cold like this morning (30s), hesitation and random shaking of the entire engine during idle.

All the cheap tests done, now back to injector swapping and see if the misfire code shows up and switches cylinder.
Maybe I'll move to Florida next winter ha!

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Old 04-17-2013, 11:29 PM   #28
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Default Re: 2003 Vue FWD 4CL. P0302 Misfire. Spontaneous recovery, then back to problem

Update:
Replaced ICM as it seems the most common culprit for the Ecotec 2.2. No difference.

Current status: Engine starts as usual with the stuttering/hesitation right away. The best thing I can do is not let it sit in idle and drive within 10 seconds of starting up. Even idling, as long as car moves (coasting or in gear), no problem. The second the car stops (at a red light for instance), the random stuttering or shaking of the engine. I guess because the rough idle is the only issue, the car is not picking up any codes and SES light is off. Also replaced the fuel injector for cylinder 2 (originally the one where the misfire was picked up) and no effect. Checked the fuel pressure and it is good within range. Fuel pressure does not drop after turning engine off arguing against leaky injectors.
Paying attention to the noise of the engine, for first 5 minutes after starting cold, I can hear the click-clack of something (a valve?). As always, problem gets better when engine warms up and completely disappears after 20-30 minutes of driving, less on the afternoon commute.

Ready to go to dealer, give up and ask them to check for vacuum leaks themselves and also to do engine compression tests.

On the bright side, the car runs much better after cleaning throttle body and replacing some other components.

As always, open to ideas.

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Old 04-18-2013, 03:26 PM   #29
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Default Re: 2003 Vue FWD 4CL. P0302 Misfire. Spontaneous recovery, then back to problem

I looked all the way thru you post and I don't see where you read 02 sensor. Mine had a miss and couldn't find it since light wasn't on. About time I was able to diagnose light came on with no codes. Drove it like that until I could get a scanner that would read codes and data stream. The light would stay on for a few days and go off for a week but no change in miss. Found bad heater on bank 1 sensor and I laughed saying this can't be but to prove me right I ordered a direct replacement sensor online and installed it knowing it would not fix it. Well I was wrong. Cleared light and idle went normal and miss disappeared so I am glad I didn't go thru all the checks that I was going to go thru when I could shut it down for a day. At that time I was going back and forth with Dad on his death bed so had no time for repairs and sensor came in I changed it in 10 minutes in between funeral arrangements. Been over 2 years and still idles correctly and fuel mileage is still up. Worth a shot. Oh it cost me 40.00 for sensor online.

2006 Vue
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Old 04-19-2013, 08:54 PM   #30
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Wrench Re: 2003 Vue FWD 4CL. P0302 Misfire. Spontaneous recovery, then back to problem

Thanks for all the advice and suggestions.
I am happy to announce that the problem is finally SOLVED!

And after replacing:
fuel filter
Air intake sensor
Engine coolant temperature
One fuel injector
ICM
Coil Plug boots.

After purchasing for tests:
Vacuum gauge/pump
Fuel pressure gauge

After cleaning throttle body and running seafoam in fuel, oil and manifold.

The part that did it was...

The Ignition Coil Pack itself!
(BWD Ignition coil part E411 from Advanced Auto Parts).

Car runs wonderful. Engine runs very differently. Better than ever maybe due to the additional work I did on it up to this point.
Approx monetary expense by buying parts through internet deals: About $400.
All the parts replaced needed replacing (looked worn or torn) with the exception of the ICM which I will keep for parts.

Is there a way to label this Thread as Solved for future readers?

Finally, thank you all for your help!

Roger
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Saturn Vue 2003 FWD 2.2l 128k miles
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Old 06-12-2013, 12:05 PM   #31
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Default Re: 2003 Vue FWD 4CL. P0302 Misfire. Spontaneous recovery, then back to problem

I have 2004 2.2 with 140 000 miles and just got a p0300 code. My symptoms are similar to yours and with the your thread I will attempt to fix the problem. I am guessing some ignition parts are dealer only. Are these available from GM dealers? Who else would be trust worthy source?
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Old 06-12-2013, 12:23 PM   #32
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Default Re: 2003 Vue FWD 4CL. P0302 Misfire. Spontaneous recovery, then back to problem

Avoid dealer as much as possible.
Plenty of good parts at
Rockauto (they have everything you may ever need)
or
Advance Auto Parts.

even ebay.

I have never bought anything from GM dealer. In fact, I often call them to find out the cost of a part just to feel good about how much money I save purchasing from other parts stores.

Best of luck. If the symptoms are very similar, that ignition coil may do it.

Roger
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