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Old 05-08-2012, 10:41 PM   #1
JohnnyNH
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Default Warranty Service for P065e

Hey everyone. I've run into an issue with getting warranty service for a recent issue. My 08 Astra began triggering a CEL for a code P065e. It happened during my cross country move out west a few weeks ago and I called the dealer at my final destination about the code. It only came on after fueling up and as soon as the engine would bog down on an uphill climb. The dealer said that it was a minor issue and that I should clear the code and see if it triggered again. It happened again 3-4 more times in the following weeks and called the dealer to set up a service appointment. From what I understand, the code refers to an issue with the air intake tuning valve. The dealer had the car for an hour and recommended replacing the entire air intake manifold to the tune of $1125! The car is only 4 years old and still under warranty but the dealer claimed the service would not be covered as a warranty repair. I left the dealership and contacted GM customer care and they confirmed that the parts were included under warranty. GM later contacted the dealership to make arrangements for me to get the car serviced. Instead, the dealership spoke with GM and indicated that the repair was needed due to normal wear and tear. GM contacted me to let me know that they would not cover this item under warranty since it was not due to material or workmanship defect, only normal wear and tear. At the moment, I'm at a loss. I've never heard of an air intake manifold needing replacement due to a faulty valve and certainly can't understand how this is due to just normal wear and tear. Does anyone have any recommendations on how to proceed with getting any further assistance from GM for this kind of issue or am I expecting too much? If I'm up the creek on this one and am stuck having to do this repair on my own, has anyone here encountered this issue before and replaced the intake manifold? Any tips or advice? Thanks all!
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Old 05-09-2012, 01:03 AM   #2
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Default Re: Warranty Service for P065e

I hate to say this, but go to a different dealer and get the repair, regardless of how far away they are. This is an emissions related item. Essentially, the intake plenum has a separate valve system that varies according to engine demand. It restricts or allows airflow to the intake valves. Ideally, this allows maximal fuel economy and lowers exhaust emissions by making the fuel/air ratio stoichiometrically lean, depending on engine demand. If this valve doesn't work, your engine will run like crap. This code means that the valve is not responding correctly.

By the way, this is a poor description of how it actually works, but it should get the point across. It has to do more with intake pulse length.

This is not normal wear and tear. You paid for a warranty, and you should not pay for the repair.
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Old 05-09-2012, 10:09 AM   #3
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Default Re: Warranty Service for P065e

that dealer really screwed things up for you. probably should have been covered and now im not sure anyone could get it covered if gm really already said no.
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Old 05-09-2012, 04:38 PM   #4
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Default Re: Warranty Service for P065e

Quote:
Originally Posted by phatfire6 View Post
I hate to say this, but go to a different dealer and get the repair, regardless of how far away they are. This is an emissions related item.

<<<snip>>>

This is not normal wear and tear. You paid for a warranty, and you should not pay for the repair.
This scenario is preposterous. Everyday "wear & tear" does not negate a warranty -- unless it is specifically called out in the warranty itself. Examples of such exceptions would include brake and clutch lining, tires, etc. "Wear & tear" is usually something associated with parts featuring moving mechanical components. Well guess what? Many emissions controls feature moving mechanical components (eg: EGR systems), but they are still emission controls.

I'm going to guess that the reason why your dealer is trying to call it a non-warranty issue is that factory warranty repairs don't pay as well as the going shop rate (ie: warranty work is done at a lower $/hr than the normal shop rate, and I believe there is less mark-up on parts as well). Dealers must fully document all warranty repairs and submit the old parts for reimbursement. It seems very strange that the people willing to pony up the money to pay for the repair are OK with it, while the ones that would be doing doing the actual hands-on work seem to object.

The good news is that sight-unseen, the GM warranty department was initially willing to cover it. It wasn't until your particular dealer got involved that things got ugly. First thing I would do is approach your dealer and say that you want to get the work done, but only under warranty. If they know that you're willing to walk out the door and travel to another dealer, they might reconsider doing the work "at a lower profit margin" than getting nothing out of the deal -- unless they are so busy that they can actually turn away work.

Otherwise, wait a few weeks and then try a different dealer. Hopefully by then, you'll either be talking to a different person at the GM warranty office, or they might have forgotten about you by then. Unless they recorded your VIN and have the original warranty refusal still on file. In that case, I'd take it on up the line and ask a senior manager why the repair was at first considered under warranty, and now it is not. If they give you that crap about normal "wear & tear", ask them to explain to you how a mechanical emission control cannot be covered under the specific emission section of the warranty. "Material and workmanship defects" do actually extend to the movable components too, the same way a switch is rated in on/off cycles over so many hours.

PS: Our 1.8L engines won't be rare for long. The base Cruze LS and the Sonics both feature the same engines, so used parts should start to become more readily available as the boneyards start to fill up.
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Old 05-10-2012, 12:25 AM   #5
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Default Re: Warranty Service for P065e

Thanks everyone for the information and advice. I've been playing phone tag with GM customer service but the tidbit of info I got today was that the dealership told GM that since I did not purchase the car from that particular dealership, they did not want to do the warranty service. I would think that this kind of answer from a dealership would send up huge red flags at GM but apparently not thus far. I hope that the next nearest dealer (90 miles away) will offer some better customer service.

So far the problem has been really hit or miss. I've driven the car to and from work all week and it hasn't triggered another CEL. I haven't necessarily noticed a huge difference in performance thus far but I'll keep an eye on mpg. I just moved from sea level to around 7,000 feet and that has a more noticeable effect on performance.
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Old 05-12-2012, 12:01 PM   #6
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Default Re: Warranty Service for P065e

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyNH View Post
I've been playing phone tag with GM customer service but the tidbit of info I got today was that the dealership told GM that since I did not purchase the car from that particular dealership, they did not want to do the warranty service. I would think that this kind of answer from a dealership would send up huge red flags at GM but apparently not thus far.
Believe me, it will. Dealers are very concerned about their CSI rating (Customer Satisfaction Index), because it is directly tied to how GM HQ views that particular dealership. When I used to pull wrenches at a big dealer here in Vancouver, our CSI rating was displayed on a large board for everyone to see, and it was updated monthly. New car sales, used car sales, and service all tie in together, and a dealer with a low CSI rating doesn't look good in the eyes of HQ. Dealers are all franchises, after all, and they can lose their franchise license if their CSI dips too low. I've even heard of instances where people buying new cars would be "offered" a free oil change or two if they score the dealership highly in their dealer survey.
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Old 06-02-2012, 02:15 AM   #7
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Default Re: Warranty Service for P065e

Update on my issue with the air intake tuning valve. I took the car to the next nearest authorized facility (90 miles away) and after a diagnostic, they came up with the same conclusion. This dealership seemed far more knowledgeable and customer friendly and they indicated that they would be able to replace the intake tuning valve instead of the entire air intake manifold for $365. I took it in today and they already knew about my conversations with GM and were able to make the fix for $265. I was happy with the savings and test drove the new Sonic 1.4L Turbo. After 15 miles off the lot, the car seemed to be performing much worse. As soon as it climbed a hill, the CEL popped on again. Ran the code and came back again as P065e. I took it back and they seemed equally confused. Now I'm looking at having to go back another weekend and shelling out more money for engine work which no one in my area (within 300 miles) is willing to service under warranty. I'd love to keep the car but can't keep paying out for repairs that aren't working, especially ones which should be covered under warranty. Has anyone else run into this issue with the refusal of dealerships to cover these repairs?
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Old 06-02-2012, 05:13 PM   #8
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Default Re: Warranty Service for P065e

Its unfortunate to be in your shoes with what appears to be faulty(?) GM parts, faulty GM service, and/or GM being less than honest about an emissions related error code that repeats and refusing to cover this under a warranty that is supposed to be providing an emissions warranty. Politics. Some would take this up the ladder and skip a few rungs to scream loud and hard about GM's ability to back away from what seems clearly an emissions issue that should not cost you a dime while under warranty. Perhaps calling your local politician may raise a dew eyebrows and nudge GM into fixing this issue once and for all. Dealer complacency along with corporate hiding from warranty obligations needs strong language aimed at the right people. Raising your voice in contempt is just a start. It won't be easy to fix this issue.

While no expertise is given, the initial P065e, DTC P065E: Intake Manifold Tuning (IMT) Valve Performance. implies the tuning valve used by the EFI system as described previously. What's not apparent is whether this valve is the actual fault or something else is causing this issue and dumb diagnostics points the blame when its more complicated. Just the procedures to remove and replace this valve says to disconnect the electrical connection and two vacuum hoses. Well, two vacuum hoses suggest vacuum as a possible issue, the hoses, and where vacuum is originating from. Digging a little deeper into troubleshooting is part of a technician's/mechanic's raison d'etre (borrowing a French phrase)/reason for being (one). For GM to replace this part only to have the error code pop up again tends to display a recurring theme of 'replacement artists' - mechs/techs simply following the yellow brick road and not learning anything at your inconvenience.

I am clearly not familiar with this problem unless I expose the one cell between my ears for new information to understand the role of this intake tuning valve and more importantly how the EFI system interacts with other sensors to make this tuning valve operate. Sometimes removing and replacing a part doesn't fix the problem when its elsewhere causing it. Finding the repair expert is one thing, interpreting the warranty issue as to who pays is another....................
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Old 06-02-2012, 07:55 PM   #9
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Default Re: Warranty Service for P065e

Sounds like someone needs to lawyer up.
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