New Ethanol standard?

[Mister_Cee]

Will using fuel with a 15% ethanol mixture (instead of 10%), the idea of which has been suggested by those in power, have adverse effect(s)on our cars?

I've read that "newer" cars and their parts were designed to (and can) handle a higher percentage of ethanol better than "older" cars but I've not come upon good definitions of "newer" and/or "older".

[cujoe_da_man]

The research I've been doing says that it's the rubber that will fail over time. It's not built for such high alcohol content. It's also going to be an issue for a lot of our tractors and yard equipment, some of which specifically state nothing more than E10 and the tractors are old Ford's. We can't just buy non-ethanol gas when it's roughly $20 a gallon (those pre-mixed cans you see at Home Depot or Menard's).

I keep seeing corrosion being an issue on certain metal parts and that is true, but that's mainly when the gas is just sitting for long periods of time. Not saying it can't cause a bit of corrosion when in normal use, but the chance is greatly reduced.

Since the ethanol wants to literally suck the water right out of the air, that's what causes all the corrosion issues. I've seen some products that claim to stop this, but the results are not good (I've watched a few vids about it).

But, this is all part of the plan, right? *tinfoil hat*

[fetchitfido]

Why are you paying Home Depot for E0 gas? Just goto the pump like a normal person.
Michigan list: https://www.pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=MI

Change the "MI" part to whatever state you live in.

[fdryer]

Mister_Cee, I think if you can find old threads when E10 became standard, you should find what years Saturns made the grade. Gaskets, rubber, O-rings and aluminum are affected by corrosive ethanol. GM made a statement about ethanol in our fuel and generally pointed out what year and models met specs to accommodate E10. Every vehicle manufacturer had to put out a public statement about which vehicles are compatible and which aren't. In general, older vehicles using carburetors are the cutoff; carb engines with plain rubber fuel lines would deteriorate from ethanol over time, not overnight. Rubber diaphragms and seals would be affected too over time. Most of not all EFI engines are immune to E10 and almost every vehicle manufacturer states it emphatically. If they didn't they're open to lawsuits from America's penchant for litigation. Using higher ethanol content isn't advised by most vehicle manufacturers unless specified. GM created their flexible fuel vehicles to allow higher ethanol use but as you can see, not as popular because of the hit in fuel economy. You won't hear of anyone with a flex-fuel vehicle vehicle praising their ride.

Ethanol has a higher octane than 87 regular but the air/fuel ratio requires more of it to burn correctly. Something like 9:1 compared to gasoline at 14.7:1. EFI engines compensate for E10 easily but may not do as well with E15 or higher unless it's configured as a flex-fuel engine. The reason for a drop in fuel millage is that more ethanol is needed than gasoline and engine computers compensate by using a bit more fuel this the drop. Use higher ethanol and fuel economy drops a little more. Most know this as the number of miles in a tank; getting less mileage per tank When E10 first came out then less going to E15 and even greater drop when using E85.

Lawnmowers, riding tractors, chainsaws, weed wackers, snow blowers and other small engines still using carburetors can suffer from E10 use over time as ethanol absorbs moisture and allows this to attack carburetors by creating deposits interfering with fuel passages. Fuel treatments are recommended if equipment is stored away with fuel left in them to reduce creation of deposits. Draining fuel can reduce or eliminate this altogether. Small engine repair shops are aware of E10 corroding fuel systems.

[cujoe_da_man]

Originally Posted by fetchitfido

Why are you paying Home Depot for E0 gas? Just goto the pump like a normal person.
Michigan list: https://www.pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=MI

Change the "MI" part to whatever state you live in.

I've never bought any of that premixed stuff, was just using it as an example.

And I never looked because they aren't supposed to be selling non ethanol gas, it's a federal regulation. That's why Biden is pushing for E15 even though nothing can run on E15 without killing all the internals.

[termite]

I know my 2013 Toyota RAV4 has a don’t use E15 symbol inside the fuel door. I can’t imagine any car not labeled Flex Fuel would be able to use E15 without damaging the fuel system. The whole idea is stupid to make us use it.

[laser3kw]

And I never looked because they aren't supposed to be selling non ethanol gas, it's a federal regulation.

??? federal regulation - can't sell non-ethanol reduced gasoline?
I don't know about federal, maybe a state thing. We have had gas stations around here for years that have pumps with non-ethanol gas. I'm sure that is there was a federal stature that they would not be allowed.

[Waiex191]

https://www.pure-gas.org/
Find stations that sell alcohol free gas.

[onlinebiker]

After careful consideration - I have decided that I' m good with that if they put 15% gasoline in Joe Biden' s drink.....

[Mister_Cee]

Whenever E15 becomes the fuel du jour, is Uncle Joe gonna pay to fix cars that weren't designed to handle it as fuel and are adversely affected? I think not.

[fdryer]

"The EPA and an academic study have said that fuel containing 15% ethanol is safe for cars, trucks and sport-utility vehicles made in 2001 or later — which make up more than 90% of the vehicles on U.S. roads. Many car manufacturers have okayed the use of E15 fuel in their vehicles made in the past 10 years." Your '96 should not use E15.

Biden announces summer sale of higher-ethanol fuel in effort to lower gas prices - APR. 12, 2022.

President Joe Biden announced a national emergency waiver that will allow for the sale of E15 — fuel which contains a blend of 15% ethanol and 85% gasoline — this summer in an attempt to reduce fuel costs for Americans amid elevated gas prices.


E15 contains up to 15% ethanol compared to most gasoline in the U.S., which contains about 10% ethanol; Currently, E15 cannot be sold in most of the country from June 1 to Sept. 15 due to air pollution rules.

This isn't a mandate to replace regular/E10 gasoline.

[Mister_Cee]

fdryer,

I'd assumed that using E15 in my '96 wasn't going to be a viable option if I didn't want to damage engine components (plastics, rubber components etc). etc). Spending a few more cents per gallon isn't going to make much difference to me but saving those few cents and ending up with a big repair bill isn't my idea of worthwhile lol

I don't know how many stations will start carrying the E15, here, so I guess I'll have to make sure to find a place that isn't selling it.

[fdryer]

E15 should be labeled as 88 (no lead gasoline) on pumps. 87 regular is E10.

[Sid]

I've been using 91E0 for a few years now. It gets slightly better gas mileage but not enough to make up the cost difference in the gas. It also has a little more punch on acceleration and better low end torque. I like the improved torque, especially starting out in first with the stick shift. I also use the 91E0 in our 2016 Odyssey. I can't tell any difference with the Honda Odyssey but there is a noticeable difference with the 96 SW2.

[Ricketts]

It's sad we are so far down this path we are on that nothing they do can actually fix the system we have now.

More ethanol means less arable land for food, means food prices increase. More ethanol in our fuel means more long term wear/damage which will get older vehicles off the road, creating more waste, forcing more people into newer vehicles (most of which have worse mileage than our Saturns), which they cannot afford because they are spending more for food that they also can't afford.

This is unsustainable