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Old 09-26-2010, 01:13 PM   #1
bw86
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Dazed Intake Manifold Support Bracket (95 SC2)

Just finishing up the engine (DOHC), and the last step before lowering her in, according to the FSM is the "intake manifold support bracket" that goes from the bottom of the intake manifold, to the top of the three bolts that hold on the intermediate shaft.

We can't find it; we can't remember if it was there before.

Do we care? Does this part matter? Can anyone post a picture of what it actually looks like?

TIA

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Old 09-26-2010, 01:24 PM   #2
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1998 SC2
Default Re: Intake Manifold Support Bracket (95 SC2)

Yes, you care. Second design 94-99 DOHC are all the same. It is long enough to fit between the stud on the manifold under #2 intake runner and the top bolt on the intermediate axle shaft mount. It is about as big around as your index finger and flattened on each end and the ends are bent so each end sits flat against the manifold and block.
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Old 09-26-2010, 01:54 PM   #3
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Default Re: Intake Manifold Support Bracket (95 SC2)

Side with smaller hole attaches to the manifold.

Im pretty sure my engine that I rebuilt in 2003 thats been in a 1993 SW2, 1995 SL2, 1996 SC2 and is currently in a 1995 SW2 and has over 100,000 miles in it doesnt have this bracket attached.

...
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Old 09-26-2010, 02:10 PM   #4
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Default Re: Intake Manifold Support Bracket (95 SC2)

Will I need to buy another one from the dealer? This engine needs to be in ASAP, and it's Sunday, so the dealer is closed.

Basically, if I can help it, I would like to just put the engine in AS-IS but I won't if this is going to cause some serious damage.
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Old 09-26-2010, 02:24 PM   #5
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1998 SC2
Default Re: Intake Manifold Support Bracket (95 SC2)

Its not an immediate failure point. Put the engine in as you can install the bracket later. The best place to get one is the junk yard. The dealer will not have one and will attempt to order it. If the car runs in nice sunny CA on smooth roads its entire life you don't need it but if you liver in the rest of the country where the roads are paved with potholes connected by small strips of smooth pavement and frost heaves you do need it.

Just get one out of a Junk Yard next week.
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Old 09-26-2010, 02:35 PM   #6
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Default Re: Intake Manifold Support Bracket (95 SC2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bw86 View Post
Will I need to buy another one from the dealer? This engine needs to be in ASAP, and it's Sunday, so the dealer is closed.
Doubt your local dealer will have this in stock. If they have to order it from a GM warehouse (if its still stocked by GM), it'll be over a week until you receive it. If you order one from an online Saturn parts site, it'll be two to three weeks. Its part number 21007239 FYI. And apparently not listed at the online places.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bw86 View Post
Basically, if I can help it, I would like to just put the engine in AS-IS but I won't if this is going to cause some serious damage.
100,000+ miles on my engine. No issues.

You can drop your engine in and drive it until you find the bracket if you feel you really need one. It can be installed with the engine in place from below.

If you really, really want one, PM me. The one in the picture I posted is available if you want it.
...
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Old 09-26-2010, 02:38 PM   #7
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Default Re: Intake Manifold Support Bracket (95 SC2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
If the car runs in nice sunny CA on smooth roads its entire life ...
Sunny, yes. Smooth? Yeah right. About as smooth as Edward James Olmos' face.
...
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Old 09-26-2010, 02:47 PM   #8
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Default Re: Intake Manifold Support Bracket (95 SC2)

Thanks everyone! I think I'll find it EVENTUALLY, I'm just fed up with looking for it. I'll put it in now and I'll let you know if I need anything else! Thanks!
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Old 09-26-2010, 03:03 PM   #9
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Default Re: Intake Manifold Support Bracket (95 SC2)

I don't have that part installed on my 96 DOHC
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Old 09-26-2010, 05:06 PM   #10
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1998 SC2
Default Re: Intake Manifold Support Bracket (95 SC2)

There are no extra parts on a Saturn. If that brace had no benefit it would not be there.

The one that is supposed to be there will show up shortly after installing the engine.
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Old 09-26-2010, 05:51 PM   #11
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Default Re: Intake Manifold Support Bracket (95 SC2)

Quote:
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Sunny, yes. Smooth? Yeah right. About as smooth as Edward James Olmos' face.
hahahahaha.

You could always fabricate one out of 1/4" steel in a pinch. Would take about 15 minutes of eyeballing, a vice, a BFH, and a drill.

That said, I just walked out and looked at my engine and it's there.
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Old 09-26-2010, 08:27 PM   #12
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Default Re: Intake Manifold Support Bracket (95 SC2)

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There are no extra parts on a Saturn. If that brace had no benefit it would not be there.

The one that is supposed to be there will show up shortly after installing the engine.
No extra parts, just a bunch of over engineered ones.

"lets use some the inch long bolts to secure a plastic air box in place when shorter ones will do"

"lets use eight bolts to secure the power steering pump when half as many will do" Theres more bolts holding down the power steering pump than the rest of the belt drive system combined.

Yet they couldnt make a simple design change to the differential to keep the transmission from self destructing.
...
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Old 09-26-2010, 09:34 PM   #13
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Default Re: Intake Manifold Support Bracket (95 SC2)

Fixing the differential would have been too much work.

I suspect the manifold braces are the result of the vibrational analysis they run all of those assemblies through. That may also explain all of the bolts on the power steering pump.
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Old 09-26-2010, 10:08 PM   #14
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Default Re: Intake Manifold Support Bracket (95 SC2)

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Fixing the differential would have been too much work.
It would of been a fairly simple fix. And I bet a simple design change and retool would of cost far less than all the warranty repair work that was done throughout the years.

While we were doing another tranny swap because of this problem a couple weeks ago on a family members SL2. We were discussing it and were surprised that in this sue happy world that a class action suit was never filed against Saturn. Not only for the diff pin problem that plagues manuals as well as autos, but the issues with automatics too. We see the problems that our cars transmissions have and can quickly some up with an explanation and its no big thing. Its almost expected. But in reality, it should of been fixed the third or fourth year into the S-Series. It now got to the point that even a non-enthusiast knows its a common problem. Its mentioned on craigslist adds and eBay auctions.

Quote:
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I suspect the manifold braces are the result of the vibrational analysis they run all of those assemblies through. That may also explain all of the bolts on the power steering pump.
I think you're giving the people that designed these cars too much credit. We had some interesting conversations with some of them in 1999 at Homecoming.
...
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Old 09-26-2010, 10:28 PM   #15
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Default Re: Intake Manifold Support Bracket (95 SC2)

I have a work acquaintance who has a brother who works in GM transmission design. Of all the thing s they do and don't do one is vibration analysis so big parts do not crack and fall off.

The roll pin failure mechanism is a well documented failure for several different vehicles with that design. the justification is that the car is an economy car and not a performance car.

The computer controlled electric shift automatic was the state of the art when it was speced into the car. There were lots of them in Europe and they all Sux... But it has low internal losses so it will work well with a small economy car.

Why the problems were never fixed probably had a lot to do with the actual profitability of the line. And GM upper management.
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Old 09-26-2010, 10:30 PM   #16
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Default Re: Intake Manifold Support Bracket (95 SC2)

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I think you're giving the people that designed these cars too much credit. We had some interesting conversations with some of them in 1999 at Homecoming.
And the oil burning didn't come up as part of that??
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Old 09-26-2010, 11:19 PM   #17
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Default Re: Intake Manifold Support Bracket (95 SC2)

GM has built many oil burners.
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Old 09-27-2010, 07:28 AM   #18
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Default Re: Intake Manifold Support Bracket (95 SC2)

Quote:
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GM has built many oil burners.
One of the many reasons their market share has tanked. Consumers have long memories when they get "burned."
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Old 09-27-2010, 09:29 AM   #19
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Default Re: Intake Manifold Support Bracket (95 SC2)

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One of the many reasons their market share has tanked. Consumers have long memories when they get "burned."
Pretty much. People can only be loyal for so long before they actually want a top tieir product. Don't get me wrong, I love my Saturn, but it's not built as well as a Japanese car. I still wouldn't trade my Satty straight up for one either. (Instead I have one of each)
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Old 09-27-2010, 09:30 AM   #20
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Default Re: Intake Manifold Support Bracket (95 SC2)

GM built a multi-year fleet of lemons in the early 80s. This example of low quality assembly and poor engineering resulted in GM setting up a wholly owned independent subsidiary to try and bail out the company reputation. That would be Saturn.
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