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Old 03-27-2022, 06:18 PM   #21
Luthin
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Default Re: A/C Refrigerent Line Pressure Switch

Here's another question. I'm having difficulty mounting the filter/drier to the frame of the vehicle. It seems like the rubber hose is getting in the way of proper alignment. Is it acceptable to gently bend the aluminum tubing to facilitate alignment? Or is that a no-no?

Also - as I understand it, these units have a dessicant in them, right? So I would not want to leave it open to atmosphere for an extended period of time while I am completing the work? I.e. keep everything sealed, and only complete the connections at the very end when ready to pull vaccum?
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Old 03-27-2022, 06:46 PM   #22
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Default Re: A/C Refrigerent Line Pressure Switch

Yes, a "gentle" bend is no problem; just don't kink the tubing tightly.

And yes, keep the drier sealed up as long as possible.
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Old 03-27-2022, 09:00 PM   #23
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Default Re: A/C Refrigerent Line Pressure Switch

A little science. Water at atmospheric pressure is a liquid. It boils at 212F in an open container. In a sealed cooling system, the boiling point is raised in proportion to pressure, to as much as 265F@15psi. When vehicle ac systems are open during factory assembly, crash or repairs, desiccant will absorb moisture. When factory assembly or repairs are completed, a vacuum pump removes air and moisture. In a vacuum, water evaporates, boils out quickly since a vacuum (lower than atmospheric pressure) is created. This allows any moisture to leave a properly repaired system. The longer a vacuum is held, moisture comes out of solution (pag oil absorbs moisture) including any moisture absorbed in the desiccant. Every ac system requires a complete evacuation using an electric vacuum pump to remove air and moisture to leave a sealed system free of these two contaminants before refilling with refrigerant. When performed correctly, refrigerant, oil and dye are the only things circulating in ac systems.
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Old 03-28-2022, 09:11 AM   #24
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Default Re: A/C Refrigerent Line Pressure Switch

Heard. Thank you.

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Yes, a "gentle" bend is no problem; just don't kink the tubing tightly.

And yes, keep the drier sealed up as long as possible.
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Old 03-28-2022, 09:13 AM   #25
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Default Re: A/C Refrigerent Line Pressure Switch

So the desiccant can release its moisture again when under vacuum? I wasn't sure how this stuff works; I assumed it was a chemical reaction that 'absorbed' the water, and once the desiccant had absorbed all the moisture it could, then it was effectively 'used up'. Isn't that why they say to replace the filter drier every time you work on the system? Or is that more for the 'filter' part than the 'drier' part?


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A little science. Water at atmospheric pressure is a liquid. It boils at 212F in an open container. In a sealed cooling system, the boiling point is raised in proportion to pressure, to as much as 265F@15psi. When vehicle ac systems are open during factory assembly, crash or repairs, desiccant will absorb moisture. When factory assembly or repairs are completed, a vacuum pump removes air and moisture. In a vacuum, water evaporates, boils out quickly since a vacuum (lower than atmospheric pressure) is created. This allows any moisture to leave a properly repaired system. The longer a vacuum is held, moisture comes out of solution (pag oil absorbs moisture) including any moisture absorbed in the desiccant. Every ac system requires a complete evacuation using an electric vacuum pump to remove air and moisture to leave a sealed system free of these two contaminants before refilling with refrigerant. When performed correctly, refrigerant, oil and dye are the only things circulating in ac systems.
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Old 03-28-2022, 09:30 AM   #26
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Default Re: A/C Refrigerent Line Pressure Switch

Mix some common sense with your "science". Vacuum will eventually get all the moisture, but how long do you want to pump for? Moisture kept out, as much as possible, sure won't impede the process.

PS: It's not just the drier that holds moisture, even the pores of metals/plastics/elastomers in the system do too, and need a bit of time for the moisture to be removed. How long is "a bit"? Why risk it?
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Old 03-28-2022, 11:30 AM   #27
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Default Re: A/C Refrigerent Line Pressure Switch

All of my experiences and repairs since r12 days as a diyer gathering as much information on refrigeration fundamentals, diagnosing, troubleshooting and using best practices goes a long way to accomplishing repairs equal to dealer/repair shop work. Service manuals spell out specific data so an informed repair is accurate. I refrain from second guessing established procedures.

When a vacuum decreases atmospheric pressure, physics takes over. In a sealed system, air and moisture are evacuated with water readily boiling out of solution because of reduced pressures. Water is a liquid at atmospheric pressure, freezes into a semi solid at 32F and turns to steam when heated to 212F. In a vacuum, water or moisture in the form of droplets come out of solution from refrigerant oil or desiccant. Desiccant absorbs minute moisture from an opened system and usually replaced like oil and air filters since this is the only way to ensure capturing any moisture left in a system after repairs. Any remaining absorbed moisture is boiled out as soon as a vacuum is created, lowering pressure to as close to absolute zero as possible. Leaving a vacuum pump running for at least 15 minutes keeps a vacuum as moisture leaves. Repair shops make money and use minimum time. Diyers have the luxury of leaving a pump running longer. This assumes the same adherence to repair procedures of using new seals where needed, replacing oil to correct oil amounts and using known good gauge sets that don't leak. All I'm describing are facts to ensure perfect repairs by anyone willing to spend time and effort in refrigeration repairs. Ac repairs are unforgiving of mistakes. I've made my share to add to personal experiences.

Using an electric vacuum pump for 10-15 minutes, shutting it off and observing gauges for zero needle movement indicates hook ups are correct, seals are working and gauge connections aren't leaking atmospheric pressure back into a repaired system. Needles slowly (or quickly moving back to zero from a vacuum) indicate a leak and should be investigated and repaired before continuing as a leak means zero guarantee of refilling a......... leaking system. Every ac repair relies on correct repairs against vacuum or pressure leaks. If needles hold after several minutes of observation then continue evacuating for another 30-45 minutes. The longer a vacuum is held, any remaining minute moisture boils out. One member left his system overnight in a vacuum (pump off), returned the next day with zero needle movement. Overkill but satisfied his repairs were perfect before refilling with refrigerant. An hour of vacuum pump running is more than sufficient for diyers making home repairs. Attention to details goes a long way to ac repairs. All it costs are time and effort, saving money from hourly labor rates and marked up parts.
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Old 04-28-2022, 02:26 PM   #28
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Default Re: A/C Refrigerent Line Pressure Switch

Getting closer on this. I have almost everything bolted back together and ready to go; the vacuum pump is reserved for this weekend at my local FLAPS so my goal is to finish things up over the weekend.

This was included in my seal kit. Where does it go? Is this for the low pressure suction hose on the compressor? I thought I remembered that it went there, but that hose came with an O Ring preinstalled already. But it doesn't look/feel like it has a good fit to the compressor either. Not like the other fittings anyways.

https://imgur.com/a/DqyyoDV
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Old 04-28-2022, 06:14 PM   #29
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Default Re: A/C Refrigerent Line Pressure Switch

When repairing my ac system, I bought a seal kit. Assumptions are that it contains a complete seal kit. When compressor, hoses, filter/drier and condenser coil were bought, they came with seals. Guess what I/you/anyone have extras of?

That image is a flat seal, a soft flat aluminum ring with a rubber seal on the inner surfaces. Used mainly on the suction side with some compressors using it on the discharge side. Flat seals are not lubricated before installation. When bolting fittings on the compressor, this seal crushes for the aluminum to conform to both fittings while the rubber seal provides further sealing. A pressure proof seal is required on every fitting when joining fittings together whether or not a total evacuation or hot and humid temperatures occurs where pressures exceed 250 psi on the high side. In vehicle ac system perspective, the compressor has its own high pressure relief valve set to around 450 psi. It can be assumed that the entire ac system is capable of withstanding 450 psi+. This isn't considered or discussed in any repairs of vehicle ac systems.
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Old 04-28-2022, 07:07 PM   #30
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Default Re: A/C Refrigerent Line Pressure Switch

I definitely have a problem here. Take a look at these pictures. Do they make different hoses for these systems depending on what compressor you have or something? Rock Auto does not seem to distinguish a difference in the hoses.

Fwiw, my old hose had a regular o-ring on it and not the flat washer. The first picture is without any o-ring or the flat washer. Note the gap between the fitting and the compressor body. It cannot be pushed in any further because of a little 'lip' on the fitting end of the hose. The issue is even more pronounced with the flat washer in place (2nd picture).

The high side hose has the exact same issue. I ordered GPD hoses from Rock Auto and the part # that I was sent matches what Rock Auto has listed.

If I take my original hoses and mate them up to the new compressor, they fit right up like I would expect, even with their o-rings in place. I really do not want to re-use my original hoses. Any idea how I can determine what hose I actually need?

https://imgur.com/a/ILQvhu2
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Old 04-28-2022, 08:44 PM   #31
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Default Re: A/C Refrigerent Line Pressure Switch

I see your predicament. This must have occurred when GM quietly switched from O-rings on compressor fittings to flat seals. The only way to know; service manuals and/or service bulletins. Hopefully there's a simple answer.

Carefully examine your old compressor fittings and matching hose ends. Compare them to your new compressor and new hose ends. Somewhere is your answer. The second image with flat seal appears wrong where the flat seal is seen when it should be hidden. This would imply using one O-ring (and mineral oil lube) as long as the correct O-ring is forced into the bore hole when tightening the single bolt. Very little sealing pressure is needed to have the correct seal occur as mating surfaces surround the O-ring. At this point of repairs, it's not the end of the world yet. If I'm not mistaken, male fittings with O-rings have a shallow groove for the O-ring to seat while still proud to allow sealing when fittings mate together. If I recall from past repairs, hose ends using flat seals won't have this groove and sit flat on both sides of the fittings, seal hidden when fittings mate. The space between fittings would be the flat seal aluminum taking up space while allowing parallel alignment between fittings.

My worse case scenario occurred when mating old fitting to new (high side hoses) when a leak occurred a day later. Aluminum corrodes over the years and the old fitting seemed clean but upon closer examination, I found pitting, enough to allow high pressure leaks. The question was either replace the older hose or try cleaning up the the fitting. I gambled on filing, scraping, shining the fitting rather than wait two weeks for a new hose. It worked. Zero oil/dye marks on the mated fittings. Not something I would recommend to anyone unless well thought out.
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Old 04-29-2022, 12:04 AM   #32
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Default Re: A/C Refrigerent Line Pressure Switch

I ran into a similar problem when I replaced the compressor on my 97 where the suction line uses an O-ring at the compressor. The replacement compressor fitting was designed for the flat seal and the line would not bolt up. I solved the problem by ordering a suction hose for a 2002 which uses the flat seal at the compressor but is identical to the old one on the TXV side.
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Old 04-29-2022, 12:28 PM   #33
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Default Re: A/C Refrigerent Line Pressure Switch

Thanks to both of you for the helpful replies. I ordered different brand hoses from Rock Auto (UAC) after zooming way in on the picture and from what I can see it looks like there is no lip on the compressor side of the fittings.

Are you saying the 2002 SL/SC hoses are different than my 1998's? It looks like Rock Auto lists a different part number for the suction hose, but the same one for the discharge.

Fwiw, my old hose had an o-ring on it, and so did the new ones from Rock Auto.

Here's some pictures of the old and new compressor; the mating surfaces themselves look identical on both to me. But the old compressor basically has a wide open chamber inside where the new one is closed off except for a little port. I don't think that should affect the mounting though?

The old hoses bolt right up to both the old and new compressors, which is where I came to the conclusion that my problem is with the hoses. If my other set of hoses that I have coming doesn't work, I can try getting hoses for a 2002 if you think that'd help. I'm basically throwing parts at it now, which I don't like....

https://imgur.com/a/dWo68dn
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Old 04-30-2022, 12:09 AM   #34
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Default Re: A/C Refrigerent Line Pressure Switch

My problem was a different style of suction fitting on the compressor on the replacement vs the old one which looks like your picture. The difference was a raised boss where the bolt hose is and the 02 hose was made for that. So my issue was different than yours.

Now that I looked at your pictures again I remember having the same problem with a Rockauto suction hose I was replacing on a 98. The small lip preventing the hose fitting from seating in the bore all the way. I gave up and installed a decent used hose I had on hand.
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Old 04-30-2022, 02:36 PM   #35
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Default Re: A/C Refrigerent Line Pressure Switch

That is precisely the problem that I am having, and I really don't want to re-use my old hoses. I'm pretty sure they were leaking at the crimp connections. Any idea how to find the correct brand new/NOS hose?

If these UAC hoses show up and look the same way, I'lll be completely out of ideas. Rock Auto has some GM Geniune hoses that are much more, but I'd gladly pay that if I was getting the correct new hoses.


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The small lip preventing the hose fitting from seating in the bore all the way. I gave up and installed a decent used hose I had on hand.
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Old 05-01-2022, 12:40 AM   #36
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Default Re: A/C Refrigerent Line Pressure Switch

I just went up to my shed to check and the one I bought that wouldn't fit is a Four Seasons brand from Rockauto. I think before I'd risk installing a hose you suspect leaks I'd gamble the GM hose would fit.
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Old 05-01-2022, 12:15 PM   #37
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Default Re: A/C Refrigerent Line Pressure Switch

That's helpful, thanks. It's interesting that I actually have the Four Seasons compressor.

Here's the compressor that I purchased. Interestingly enough it confirms that both the suction and discharge ports are o-rings, so at least that question has been ruled out. I'll see what these UAC hoses look like, and I may see if I can contact Four Seasons...they should be able to tell me what hose hooks up to their compressor. Or at least you'd think...

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo...t=6628&jsn=337
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Old 05-02-2022, 09:33 AM   #38
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Default Re: A/C Refrigerent Line Pressure Switch

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I definitely have a problem here. Take a look at these pictures. Do they make different hoses for these systems depending on what compressor you have or something?
i suspect that the hoses are the same regardless of seal design. on the 2 cars i've parted out (1996 and 2000), which were also the only two i've disassembled the ac system on, the hoses didn't appear to be any different. i can't say i paid any attention to the seals, but i think rockauto is correct about hose compatibility. they're actually my go-to source for cross-referencing parts compatibility between years.

however, the seal design may be specific to the compressor design. i also note that most of the hoses are listed as compatible with 1994-2002, but compressors are much more year-specific.
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Old 05-02-2022, 03:06 PM   #39
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Default Re: A/C Refrigerent Line Pressure Switch

Ugh!!!!

My UAC hoses came today and they are identical to the GPD ones - both have the offending lip that prevents a seal against the compressor.

I am at a total loss for what to do here. The compressor I have is made by Four Seasons. I called Four Seasons and explained my problem, and they absolutely ASSURE me that their Four Seasons part #55794 and 55792 hoses will bolt right up to my Four Seasons Compressor part #158529 without any modifications.

Needless to say, I am skeptical at this point.

I see 2 options at this point. 1. buy the four seasons hoses and see if they fit. That would be the 3rd set of hoses that I purchased.

2. Can I file/grind/blowtorch/any other method that lip to make it flat without compromising the connection/seal? Anyone know if that's possible and if so, how I would go about it?

Here is a close up picture with O-Rings removed of exactly what I'm up against. New hose on the left, old hose on the right. This is the suction hose on the compressor side. Discharge hose has the same issue. Help!!!

https://imgur.com/a/nJH3CXQ
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Old 05-02-2022, 03:51 PM   #40
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Default Re: A/C Refrigerent Line Pressure Switch

As a further note, this one has a picture specifically of the compressor connection. Look at this one: No lip! I am DEFINITELY buying this hose.

https://smile.amazon.com/ACDelco-210...s%2C282&sr=8-1


How do I find the part number for the GM Genuine Suction Hose?

Edit: Found it! These guys all have pictures of the connection end itself, and guess what....no lips!

https://www.gmpartsgiant.com/parts/g...-21031259.html

For posterity and any poor soul that comes across this thread in the future, the suction hose GM Part # is 21031259. I will reply to this thread once I confirm that geniune GM hoses work, but based on the high res pictures I am feeling good about this option so far.

Last edited by Luthin; 05-02-2022 at 03:59 PM.
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