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Old 04-12-2021, 10:27 PM   #81
lrbraner
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Timing Belt Kit + Camshaft + Crankshaft Seals

Read my description of where the pulleys are located,
What you are describing sounds like the spring loaded tensioner pulley.
do not worry about the green and red cam locking tools at this point. you said they didnt fit when the crank is at TDC,
Adjust the cam positions until they do fit
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Old 04-12-2021, 10:51 PM   #82
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Thumbs Up Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Timing Belt Kit + Camshaft + Crankshaft Seals

Quote:
Originally Posted by lrbraner View Post
Read my description of where the pulleys are located,
What you are describing sounds like the spring loaded tensioner pulley.
do not worry about the green and red cam locking tools at this point. you said they didnt fit when the crank is at TDC,
Adjust the cam positions until they do fit
lrbraner,

I looked at the replacement parts and seen the spring loaded tensioner pulley like you just said (the hex key one); and then the other two units; which seem to spin by finger.

Let me run this by you to see if I understand correctly:

1) Use Crankshaft Hub Lock and lock the crankshaft.
2) The Red & Green Keys won't be in; because the crankshaft will be TDC and locked with the Kent Moore tool (J-42065)
3) Start to adjust the Camshaft 3-4 eccentric pulley (spinning by finger)

(now at this point; if I understand correctly to this point.) -- do I need to spin my cam sprockets 3-4 to *re-time* the camshafts to the TDC marks on the back cover and the camshaft sprockets 3 & 4? Do I spin the pulley by finger and move the camshaft sprockets at the same time back towards TDC?

Thanks lrbraner!

I'm about to call a junk yard!
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Last edited by BrandonKastning; 04-12-2021 at 10:52 PM. Reason: forgot something
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Old 04-13-2021, 08:48 AM   #83
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Timing Belt Kit + Camshaft + Crankshaft Seals

To adjust the idler pulleys, you loosen the retaining bolt slightly.
Then you rotate the eccentric center of the pulley.
It is a hex shape.
Your Camshaft Tool kit probably has an offset box end wrench that fits the hex.
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Old 04-13-2021, 11:58 AM   #84
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Timing Belt Kit + Camshaft + Crankshaft Seals

When you removed the harmonic balancer and install the cam locks, everything was in time. Spinning the engine counterclockwise will screw up the timing because the belt tensioner only works when the engine is spun clockwise.

Last night I wrote a complete guide how to finish your timing belt project, but I screwed up and lost the post. What you need to do is lock the crank at TDC (only clockwise moment of the engine) and place the plastic wedge at 9pm to lock the belt to the crank pulley.

Then, loosen the idler at 3pm and use a large hex to spin the idler until the timing marks line up on BANK 2 and insert the cam lock. I sorry but I don't remember which color is for BANK 2. They are color coded because they are slightly different. They should slide in very easily with no force.

Once BANK 2 is locked, loosen the other idler, not the belt tensioner, leave the belt tensioner alone. Adjust the 12pm idler until the timing marks on BANK 1 are aligned and insert the cam lock. At this point, you can remove the Belt Tensioner, plastic belt lock, both idlers and the belt. Use brake clean to clean up the oil debris and the crank pulley.

Install the idlers at 12 pm and 3 pm and make sure to review the manual for which it describes how to set them up. As the hex spins, the idler will move closer or farther away from it's mounting bolt. This are only 15ftlbs... don't over tighten them. I know this sounds like too light, but it is correct. Don't be gorilla here they are weak bolts. Don't use anti-seize, I would suggest using lock tight. Install the belt tensioner with mid-range pretension on the small hex tool. I would actually set the pretension to max, but you might have a problem getting the belt on. Just do a mid-setting at this point. Be sure to torque the main bolt as specified and use lock tight. Don't get gorilla either! LOL

Now, for the new belt. There will be double marks in two locations. One is for our engine and the other is for a different engine. To determine which TDC marks are correct. Align the crank gear TDC with one the double marks on the belt. Lock the belt in place with the plastic belt wedge lock at 9pm on the crank sprocket. Double check the belt TDC is dead on the crank TDC mark.

Then, route the belt counterclockwise inside the 3pm position idler and up over BANK 2 cams. If the align marks on the belt line up with the timing marks... you got the belt installed correctly. They can be slightly off and that is okay, but not several teeth off. If you find the marks don't align right, start over using the other TDC marks on the belt and repeat steps above. When you find the correct TDC on the belt, everything will nearly line up with the timing marks on both banks. Once you get BANK 2 aligned, use hand clamps to lock the belt to the cam pulleys. This is extra protection because worming the belt into place can cause the new belt to jump teeth if you are not careful.

Once you get the belt installed, aligned and clamped to each cam sprocket, you can move on to the belt tensioner. If you can't get the belt around the belt tensioner, just loosen the preload small hex and it will relief enough pressure to route the belt.

More to come, but I have to run for now. I'll pick this up later. Sorry for typo's, no time to proof!
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Old 04-13-2021, 12:24 PM   #85
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Thumbs Up Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Timing Belt Kit + Camshaft + Crankshaft Seals

lrbraner,

I have just taken pictures of what you described. You are correct; the Timing Belt Kit did have a wrench that fits the hex.

Is my understanding correct that the orange ones that move with the hex wrench (x 2) are the ones that are going to "re-time" the cams when adjusted (without removing the belt or loosening the belt to the point of it removing?).

And the blue spring loaded one you mentioned; That's the one that I do NOT want to use now to try and TDC everything cams + crank; is this right?

Once the Kent Moore tool (I pictured it here) ... Do you happen to know if the tire can be put on once the Kent Moore Crankshaft Hub Lock is in place?

Thanks again!

Attached are 3 Picture Galleries of the tools and idlers and pulleys being discussed + the crankshaft lock.

Best Regards,

~ Brandon Kastning

Quote:
Originally Posted by lrbraner View Post
To adjust the idler pulleys, you loosen the retaining bolt slightly.
Then you rotate the eccentric center of the pulley.
It is a hex shape.
Your Camshaft Tool kit probably has an offset box end wrench that fits the hex.
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Old 04-13-2021, 12:25 PM   #86
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Thumbs Up Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Timing Belt Kit + Camshaft + Crankshaft Seals

Gallery B:
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Old 04-13-2021, 12:27 PM   #87
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Thumbs Up Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Timing Belt Kit + Camshaft + Crankshaft Seals

Gallery C:
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Old 04-13-2021, 02:35 PM   #88
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Timing Belt Kit + Camshaft + Crankshaft Seals

You are correct about the pulleys.
I am concerned you mentioned the Kent Moore tool.
It has nothing to do with the timing belt installation. Use the locking toll that came in your kit.
You call it a water pump lock I think.
It is a crankshaft positioning.and locking tool.
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Old 04-13-2021, 03:40 PM   #89
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Question Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Timing Belt Kit + Camshaft + Crankshaft Seals

Quote:
Originally Posted by lrbraner View Post
You are correct about the pulleys.
I am concerned you mentioned the Kent Moore tool.
It has nothing to do with the timing belt installation. Use the locking toll that came in your kit.
You call it a water pump lock I think.
It is a crankshaft positioning.and locking tool.
lrbraner,

oh! I just got done pulling the tire off and attempting to fit the crankshaft kent moore lock (However I couldn't figure it out). I am going to share it here on this thread in case somebody could tell me how to use it. I will have to use it immediately after the belt is removed to remove the crankshaft bolt and replace the seal (I purchased all the tools to perform this).

I did think you meant the kent moore tool for this process of adjustment for timing TDC on camshafts w/ the TDC on the crankshaft.

I did get my lines matched up on the crankshaft to TDC as you will see in the pictures.

So; as long as the water pump lock to the crankshaft is on TDC (crap; I am going to have to move it back to get the lock on. (Do I just disregard the RED/GREEN keys while I put the water pump lock on @ crankshaft TDC?).

Thanks man! I am getting close!

I think we are on the same page.

Best Regards,

~ Brandon Kastning
~ TruthSword
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Old 04-13-2021, 03:42 PM   #90
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Attention Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Timing Belt Kit + Camshaft + Crankshaft Seals

Part B:
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Old 04-13-2021, 03:47 PM   #91
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Question Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Timing Belt Kit + Camshaft + Crankshaft Seals

Part C:

lrbraner,

Alright; so now that these are posted. I will put the water pump lock on and make sure it's on TDC while disregarding the timing marks OR RED/GREEN keys in camshafts to prep for the adjustments.

So just to re-iterate; I know you said I am correct about the pulleys.

The one with small hex key (blue one) is spring loaded and will kill my engine if all 3 locks (RED/GREEN keys) + water pump / crankshaft lock?

And adjusting the other 2 with the big blue hex wrench (this will not disable my current belt and only adjust the camshaft positioning while the water pump crankshaft lock HOLDS the crankshaft at TDC) ?

100%
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Old 04-13-2021, 04:03 PM   #92
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Timing Belt Kit + Camshaft + Crankshaft Seals

When you removed the harmonic balancer and install the cam locks, everything was in time. Spinning the engine counterclockwise will screw up the timing because the belt tensioner only works when the engine is spun clockwise.

Last night I wrote a complete guide how to finish your timing belt project, but I screwed up and lost the post. What you need to do is lock the crank at TDC (only clockwise moment of the engine to find TDC) and place the plastic wedge at 9pm to lock the belt to the crank pulley.

Then, loosen the idler at 3pm and use a large hex to spin the idler until the timing marks line up on BANK 2 and insert the cam lock. I'm sorry but I don't remember which color is for BANK 2. They are color coded because they are slightly different. They should slide in very easily with no force.

Once BANK 2 is locked, loosen the other idler, not the belt tensioner, leave the belt tensioner alone. Adjust the 12pm idler until the timing marks on BANK 1 are aligned, insert the cam lock. At this point, you can remove the Belt Tensioner, plastic belt lock, both idlers and the belt. Use brake clean to clean up the oil debris and the crank pulley. Clean and dry everything.

Install the new idlers at 12 pm and 3 pm and make sure to review the manual for which it describes how to set them up. As the hex spins, the idler will move closer or farther away from it's mounting bolt. Idler bolts are only 15ftlbs... don't over tighten them. I know this sounds too light, but it is correct. Don't be gorilla here they are weak bolts. Don't use anti-seize, I would suggest using lock tight. Install the new belt tensioner with mid-range pretension on the small hex tool. I would actually set the pretension to max, but you might have a problem getting the belt on. Second thought, just do a mid-setting at this point on the tensioner. Be sure to torque the main bolt for the tensioner and idlers to specifications and use lock tight. Don't get gorilla either! LOL

Now, for the new belt. There will be double marks in two locations. One is for our engine TDC and the other is for a different engine. To determine which TDC marks are correct. Align the crank gear TDC with one the double marks on the belt only moving the belt to do so. Don't be moving crank with any locks in place. The crank should be aligned and locked in place since before you took the belt off and locked everything in place to remove the old belt and idlers/tensioner. Lock the belt in place with the plastic belt wedge lock at 9pm on the crank sprocket. Double check the belt TDC is dead on the crank TDC mark before trying to route it counterclockwise to Bank 2 first.

Then, route the belt counterclockwise inside the 3pm position idler and up over BANK 2 cams. If the align marks on the new belt line up with the timing marks... you got the belt installed correctly. They can be slightly off and that is okay, but not a tooth off. If you find the marks don't align right, start over using the other TDC marks on the belt and repeat steps above. When you find the correct TDC marks on the belt, everything will line up with the timing marks on both banks. Once you get BANK 2 aligned, use hand clamps to lock the belt to the cam pulleys. This is extra protection because worming the belt into place can cause the new belt to jump teeth if you are not careful. Correction: Make sure the timing marks align, i.e new belt to timing marks on Bank 2. You can not be a tooth off, make sure you have no slack from the crank around the idler to BANK 2. If you don't align the belt straight on the pulleys and have too much slack, you can install it off a tooth which is not good. You need insure the perfect number of teeth are between the crank TDC to the timing marks on Bank 2 or the engine will be out of time. You may need to adjust the idler such that the timing marks align within 1 tooth, not more!

Once you get the belt installed, aligned and add a clamp to each cam sprocket directly next to each timing mark, you can move on to the belt tensioner if everything lines up. If you can't get the belt around the belt tensioner, just loosen the preload small hex and it will relief enough pressure to route the belt. Make sure the belt is truly on each surface of each idler, cam, gear and tensioner. Look at the belt from the side and ensure it is ready to run true (hope you know what I mean).

More to come, but I have to run for now. I'll pick this up later. Sorry for typo's, no time to proof!

Back, once every mark is within one tooth, pretension the tensioner to and 16th to and 8th of inch beyond the end of its scale. Mechanics have learned the new belts will stretch more than original belts to get this right or the belt might skip a tooth over time. When the tensioner and all idlers are set correctly and tightened properly. You can start the process of timing the engine.

You should able to remove all clamps and locks and nothing should move. Pay attention if anything does move. Now spin the engine 360 and install the crank lock at the end prior to hitting TDC and lock the crank in place with the lock and install the plastic belt lock at 9pm again to keep the belt anchored at TDC.

Now look at Bank 2 timing marks with your gauge. If they off horribly by teeth... you will need to start over because you got too many teeth prior or after the BANK 2 gears. If they are only slightly off, loosen the idler at 3 pm and use a large hex tool to tune the timing marks to exactly spot on, then clamp the belt to each timing mark and tighten the idler securely to torque specs. Remove all locks and spin the engine again to verify the BANK 2 marks. If spot on, more on, it not repeat above until they are spot on after a 360 spin back to perfect TDC as seen by crank TDC marks. Remember to not get fooled by parallax error, only use a mirror perfectly 90 degrees in front of the crank pulley to verify TDC every time! I should have said that earlier.

After BANK 2 remains in time after a 360 spin, then move onto BANK1, but use the 12 noon idler to adjust BANK1 timing. Perform the tests the same way, dial in the BANK1 timing marks, clamp the belt to the cam sprockets and then properly tighten the idler to torque specs. Then, turn 360 and check both BANK1 and BANK 2 timing marks. You will notice a change in BANK 1 will alter BANK2 timing marks as well. It seems rather catch22 and it is, but you have to keep adjusting until you properly time and tension the belt. It takes about 10 - 360's to get it done properly.

Once all timing marks remain spot on, move to the belt tensioner. What you want to do here is find TDC and install the crank lock just like you have every time before and lock each cam and had every lock and clamp you can because you need to loosen the belt tensioner to set the proper pretension for belt longevity. The proper spot is 1/16th to 1/8" beyond the gauge shown on the belt tensioner and then tighten and lock the belt tensioner in place firmly with the small hex tool. It takes a bit of effort to get the amount of tension you need to hold the belt in place and by no means do you ever want to mess with the belt tensioner without every point of belt contact locked into place.

With everything part perfectly torqued, lock tight-ed and secure... remove and locks, wedges, clamps and spin the engine 360 aligning the crank to TDC exactly TDC and verity all timing marks using the plastic timing gauge. Everything should be in perfect time. At this point, I started my engine and let it run very briefly to make sure I set it correctly, and I did. You will literally freak out watching the belt tensioner bounce around and the belt noise is loud. Could be quieter depending upon how perfectly you aligned the belt to every surface it makes contact. Don't be alarmed with the belt noise though, it is kind of normal. See this step is not possible if the top end of the engine is not put back together and everything up top is working properly. This is why I suggested you put everything back together and test the engine before moving onto the timing belt maintenance. However, at this point, it appears the timing is OFF from your photos and the only thing you can do is move forward and change the belt as I recommended. You don't want to run an interference engine with the timing far off.

I hope this all makes sense. Rule of thumb... never allow the engine to be uncontained when the belt is off and the locks are off. The cams will spin to rest and valves will hit the pistons. There is a procedure to fix this, but it best to have to explain all that... at this point. Good luck!

Note: After writing this up twice I don't feel much like editing so excuse the carp LOL. If you have any specific question ask, I'd be happy to help.

FYI I made two tools which consisted of a long piece of wood with two bolts to hold two sockets which I used to insert into the as cam sprockets to apply light pressure to spin them into time after they had let loose. Trust me you don't let loose it's a pain to retime the engine!
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Old 04-13-2021, 04:31 PM   #93
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Timing Belt Kit + Camshaft + Crankshaft Seals

If you are still planning on replacing the crankshaft seal you should do that before spending any more time on the timing belt.
The belt will need to be removed to replace the seal.
I believe you find 2 tapped holes on the crankshaft sprocket that line up with 2 hole on the Kent Moore tool.
Then you put the appropriate size breaker bar in the square hole at the other end.
Then you can let the breaker bar rest against the ground or part of the car to keep the crank from turning while you loosen the crank bolt.
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Old 04-13-2021, 04:40 PM   #94
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Timing Belt Kit + Camshaft + Crankshaft Seals

Before you remove any part of the timing belt system, you had better find TDC on the crank and the cam and lock the crank and cams in place before removing the timing belt! The timing belt is holding tension against the valve springs. If you remove the timing belt without the cam locks in place... every cam will spin to rest hitting valves on the pistons. You don't want this to occur! Install the crank lock at TDC and install the cam locks to keep the engine in Time BEFORE removing the old timing belt!
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Old 04-13-2021, 05:32 PM   #95
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Thumbs Up Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Timing Belt Kit + Camshaft + Crankshaft Seals

lrbraner,

Yes I do plan on replacing the crankshaft seal and cleaning the whole area (removing all oil deposits I can access).

I know that the belt must be removed to do this. I just want to do the cam seals + crankshaft seal exactly like NTheFastLane YouTube video for the timing belt replacement on a CTS (Our L81) here

I went ahead and finished getting the water pump + crankshaft lock on. I checked the keys because the lines were 100% almost... and then you will see a *slight* shift in space. (This I believe is where I screwed things up with the breaker bar before winter hit).

I rotated the crankshaft a little bit to supplement; went the wrong way and then corrected it. I haven't taken the tire off to check the crankshaft TDC white out marks yet; I hope I nailed it.

The cams are showing perfect TDC white out lines and when checking the RED and GREEN keys; the top pieces *started* to slide in; just not in the right spots... *very* close I suspect since there is only 1 spot I have found that allows for both keys to fit in correctly without any force.

Thanks for all your help! I will share what I just did. I have to open up GIMP and resize some photos. I'll be back!

P.S. - So the Kent Moore tool doesn't require a specific way? I just setup my breaker bar and then find a spot that meshes with a secure lock position or something? In my mind I was trying to figure out how the tool by itself could hold the crankshaft and prevent it from turning. I did glance at the ratchet square and didn't understand the logic. I understand it better... I just don't know which way it would go. I suppose the inward curvature would be facing towards toward the crankshaft bolt? And perhaps the strange design allows for either side (left or right) ?

Best Regards,

Brandon!

Quote:
Originally Posted by lrbraner View Post
If you are still planning on replacing the crankshaft seal you should do that before spending any more time on the timing belt.
The belt will need to be removed to replace the seal.
I believe you find 2 tapped holes on the crankshaft sprocket that line up with 2 hole on the Kent Moore tool.
Then you put the appropriate size breaker bar in the square hole at the other end.
Then you can let the breaker bar rest against the ground or part of the car to keep the crank from turning while you loosen the crank bolt.
...
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Old 04-13-2021, 05:55 PM   #96
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Timing Belt Kit + Camshaft + Crankshaft Seals

You can NOT use a breaker bar to adjust the crank to fit the cam locks in place. The crank is either at TDC or it is not. Once it is aligned looking at the crank pulley... lock it in place with the crank locking tool. If you can't get it installed at TDC, then spin the engine 350 degrees, install the water pump crank locking tool and continue to spin the engine until it stop against the water pump. This should exactly TDC, but verify the crank timing marks nevertheless. Then lock the cams and if they don't fit perform the procedure I wrote previously to get the cam locks installed. Then and only then can you remove the timing belt. The crank and the cams must be locked before taking the timing belt off or changing any front seals.
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Old 04-13-2021, 06:42 PM   #97
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Wrench Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Timing Belt Kit + Camshaft + Crankshaft Seals

Alright; I believe the crankshaft is at TDC. *fingers crossed*. I will update when I know.

Here are the galleries of me putting the Water Pump Crankshaft Lock on

Legend = fingers pointing (which way I am turning the crankshaft slightly) -- however I ended up getting the first one incorrect; it was actually clockwise. Then I went too much I believe and corrected it.

Part-A attached:
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Old 04-13-2021, 06:43 PM   #98
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Wrench Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Timing Belt Kit + Camshaft + Crankshaft Seals

Part-B:
Attached Images
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Old 04-13-2021, 06:44 PM   #99
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Wrench Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Timing Belt Kit + Camshaft + Crankshaft Seals

Part-C:
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Old 04-13-2021, 06:45 PM   #100
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Wrench Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Timing Belt Kit + Camshaft + Crankshaft Seals

Part-D:
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