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Old 10-10-2020, 10:18 AM   #21
BrandonKastning
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2001 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Thumbs Up Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Timing Belt Kit + Camshaft + Crankshaft Seals

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rj 2000 LS2 View Post
Slow down there, don't do too much because one mistake can be very difficult to find if you do a dozen repairs at once. Do one thing, one repair, withing reason, and then verify it is correct before moving on to the next. Timing belt and water pump are basically one repair.

There are things on your list that just don't need to be done. Exhaust manifold gaskets? Why? Head gaskets? Why? Perhaps it would have easier to pull the engine and work on it on a stand! I found doing the valve cover gaskets a total beotch. There are so many inaccessible bolts and everything fits together in a catch 22 engineering where it is very difficult to figure what and which comes apart first! I can give you some tips when you get to the valve cover gaskets which requires the removal of all intake components and ERG.
Thanks I appreciate that! Difficult to access the E bolts on the camshaft? I have watched a video that the thermostat is in a difficult location and hard to work it's way out. I haven't read or watched anything that said I would encounter difficulties accessing the valve covers.

Are you still working on your engine? If you are; I have the alldata (I got it free during COVID-19 Unconstitutional Library Shutdowns) for our 3.0L V6 GM L81 engine. I can send you the link.

I don't like alldata myself; the Factory Service Manual tends to have better diagrams and instructions. The only cool thing on alldata is being able to quickly query their database for results as opposed to flipping through the book looking for spots. (Which gave me an idea to make dividers for the Index pages for each Section of the L81 Factory Service Manual Engine).

I have seen a diagram of the entire L81 engine. I just don't know if the camshaft drops on top with the thermostat in place. I think I need to check the order in the FSM guide to see.

Head Gaskets, Other Gaskets? Why? I want to ensure that every single part of my engine is sealed by me personally.

If I don't break it! ; Then I get to do what I do best, computers and flash that ECU and TCM. I am dying to get fresh updated firmware with FSB fixes which should include the maximum long arm shifting A/T issue I was intermittently having.

Something funny on the note of ECU's and their programming. When I had my LW300 03 ECU in and running flashed from DTC's; the settings on the throttle pedal was soooooo slow (i.e - meaning, when I pushed on the pedal the RPM's went up slowly) vs. the programming on my stock 2001 ECU which is calibrated completely differently and when I swapped them back the last time I pushed down like I was with the LW300 calibration settings on the pedal sensor... HAHA! The RPM's went darn near through the roof with barely any foot pressure.

Every last one of those settings is allegedly programmable using the acdelco subscription for $40 / VIN. I just hope it covers TSM module programming / flashing (latest computer firmware updates w/ patches).

Anyways, Have a good morning! Onwards!

~ Best Regards
Brandon
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Old 10-10-2020, 10:38 AM   #22
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2001 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Wrench Locked w/ Timing Marks (Keys Removed + Counter-ClockWise 2 Teeth + Locks + Crank) - 1

Locked w/ Timing Marks (Keys Removed + Counter-ClockWise 2 Teeth + Locks + Crank) - 1

I started early this morning; eager to complete this upgrade. I started by removing both RED and GREEN camshaft gear key locks from the timing belt kit.


I then attached my E20 Torx Socket to my Breaker bar and turned the crankshaft counter-clockwise 2 teeth like the man in the CTS video shows. (I stopped his video and counted with my fingers how many teeth). 2 is what I seen; 2 is what I performed and the results were quite pleasing.


I then attached the Water Pump to Crankshaft Locking tool that came with my timing belt kit and started with the Crankshaft end first (the bottom) -- which can only go on one way with it's flat bevel edge on the far right side.


The top water pump locking part; leave the top round screw loose and down.

I then used the E20 w/ my Breaker Bar and cranked the Crankshaft Clock-wise until snug (yet still enough to be able to spin the water pump to align it properly for a full flushing with both locks). You will have to move the bottom lock up and tighten the round screw to lock it in securely.

I then took pictures (Currently raining and had some rain gear on). I didn't use the gauges yet; however, eye balling the marks looks really good. Enough for me to feel confident in taking the belt off once I break loose the camshaft gear bolts (4) and crankshaft gear bolt (1) -- which I blasted with PB Blaster overnight.

Hope I did it right!

Thanks everyone!

~ Best Regards,
Brandon
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Old 10-10-2020, 10:42 AM   #23
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2001 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Wrench Locked w/ Timing Marks (Keys Removed + Counter-ClockWise 2 Teeth + Locks + Crank) - 2

Locked w/ Timing Marks (Keys Removed + Counter-ClockWise 2 Teeth + Locks + Crank) - 2
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File Type: jpg 1_20201010_060013.jpg (208.8 KB, 2 views)
File Type: jpg 2_20201010_060022.jpg (84.4 KB, 2 views)
File Type: jpg 3_20201010_060036.jpg (137.2 KB, 2 views)
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“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” - John 3:16 (KJV)
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Old 10-10-2020, 10:47 AM   #24
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2001 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Wrench Locked w/ Timing Marks (Keys Removed + Counter-ClockWise 2 Teeth + Locks + Crank) - 3

Locked w/ Timing Marks (Keys Removed + Counter-ClockWise 2 Teeth + Locks + Crank) - 3
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File Type: jpg 1_20201010_060310.jpg (95.3 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg 2_20201010_060332.jpg (209.3 KB, 2 views)
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“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” - John 3:16 (KJV)
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Old 10-10-2020, 10:50 AM   #25
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2001 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Wrench Locked w/ Timing Marks (Keys Removed + Counter-ClockWise 2 Teeth + Locks + Crank) - 4

Locked w/ Timing Marks (Keys Removed + Counter-ClockWise 2 Teeth + Locks + Crank) - 4
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“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” - John 3:16 (KJV)
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Old 10-10-2020, 10:53 AM   #26
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2001 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Wrench Locked w/ Timing Marks (Keys Removed + Counter-ClockWise 2 Teeth + Locks + Crank) - 5

Locked w/ Timing Marks (Keys Removed + Counter-ClockWise 2 Teeth + Locks + Crank) - 5
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“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” - John 3:16 (KJV)
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Old 10-10-2020, 10:56 AM   #27
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2001 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Wrench Locked w/ Timing Marks (Keys Removed + Counter-ClockWise 2 Teeth + Locks + Crank) - 6

Locked w/ Timing Marks (Keys Removed + Counter-ClockWise 2 Teeth + Locks + Crank) - 6
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File Type: jpg 2_20201010_061422.jpg (210.0 KB, 4 views)
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“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” - John 3:16 (KJV)
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Old 10-10-2020, 11:01 AM   #28
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2001 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Wrench Locked w/ Timing Marks (Keys Removed + Counter-ClockWise 2 Teeth + Locks + Crank) - 7

Locked w/ Timing Marks (Keys Removed + Counter-ClockWise 2 Teeth + Locks + Crank) - 7
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“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” - John 3:16 (KJV)
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Old 10-10-2020, 11:03 AM   #29
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2001 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Wrench Locked w/ Timing Marks (Keys Removed + Counter-ClockWise 2 Teeth + Locks + Crank) - 8

Locked w/ Timing Marks (Keys Removed + Counter-ClockWise 2 Teeth + Locks + Crank) - 8
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“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” - John 3:16 (KJV)
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Old 10-10-2020, 12:32 PM   #30
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2001 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Question First Brick Wall - Not sure where I stand! Crankshaft Bolt - How to Remove w/o Impact

Alright; so go to break loose the crankshaft bolt. Both keys are locked, cams are timed, crankshaft is TDC and lock tool is in place.

I use a E20 and a breaker bar and double check the keys (Red & Green); both in secure. So I go for the breaking loose of the crankshaft bolt;

I was nervous and apparently there was good reason. By the time I finally had the courage to apply more force than I wanted to; my body weight went forward, knocking the water pump 2 crankshaft lock tool loose.

I did my best to pull it back (clockwise) enough to loosen the RED KEY on Camshaft Set #1 (Cam #1 & Cam #2) and that is good.

However, the GREEN KEY on Camshaft Set #2 (Cam #3 & Cam #3) is jammed up pretty good. It doesn't want to budge.

While trying to correct my mistake (which I still don't know what I did wrong... maybe I didn't use the locking tool correctly or perhaps the force of the breaker bar was too much for the locking tool -- which I would like to believe.) -- If it's the latter and not my incompetence than what would my remedy be?

Should I leave it held in the best I can (like I do at the moment) -- rain just dumped out of no where. I had to run in quick before getting off some shots. and then I was thinking of using zip-ties to possibly re-enforce. I would have to be outside to think on this.

If anybody has any ideas... please let me know. If you also have removed a crankshaft bolt before without using an impact wrench; please also let me know how you did it!

Feeling a bit blue right now!

Thanks in advance!

~ Best Regards,
Brandon
...
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” - John 3:16 (KJV)
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Old 10-10-2020, 01:26 PM   #31
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2001 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Wrench Fixed My Mistake (Minus the Breaking of the Cranks.Bolt) - All Keyed Smooth again - 1

Fixed My Mistake (Minus the Breaking of the Cranks.Bolt) - All Keyed Smooth again - 1

I took a flat head screw driver and a rubber mallet and knocked the top locking piece to the water pump and it dropped down.

Then I put my breaker bar with my E20 socket on it and aligned the best I could and pulled back (clock-wise) -- reversing what I did.

I pulled enough to hear a noise which moved the Camset #2 (Cams #3 & #4) ; resulting in loosening of my GREEN KEY lock.

I then re-installed the water pump to crankshaft lock. However it wants to come towards me (the top part that locks onto the water pump).

I suppose this is me back to where I was when I am locked and timed.

Now I suppose the question is. How to re-enforce this lock to take a breaker bar blow to the crankshaft bolt?

This is going to be my win if I can figure out how to do it without $300 equipment I don't have.

As always, Thanks again!

~ Best Regards,
Brandon
Attached Images
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“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” - John 3:16 (KJV)
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Old 10-10-2020, 01:27 PM   #32
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2001 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Wrench Fixed My Mistake (Minus the Breaking of the Cranks.Bolt) - All Keyed Smooth again - 2

Fixed My Mistake (Minus the Breaking of the Cranks.Bolt) - All Keyed Smooth again - 2
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1_20201010_095226.jpg (112.9 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg 2_20201010_095343.jpg (105.9 KB, 2 views)
File Type: jpg 3_20201010_095347.jpg (89.9 KB, 3 views)
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“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” - John 3:16 (KJV)
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Old 10-10-2020, 01:29 PM   #33
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2001 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Wrench Fixed My Mistake (Minus the Breaking of the Cranks.Bolt) - All Keyed Smooth again - 3

Fixed My Mistake (Minus the Breaking of the Cranks.Bolt) - All Keyed Smooth again - 3
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1_20201010_095432.jpg (119.8 KB, 2 views)
File Type: jpg 2_20201010_095509.jpg (137.0 KB, 2 views)
File Type: jpg 3_20201010_095747.jpg (127.0 KB, 2 views)
File Type: jpg 4_20201010_095803.jpg (91.0 KB, 1 views)
File Type: jpg 5_20201010_095818.jpg (99.7 KB, 1 views)
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“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” - John 3:16 (KJV)
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Old 10-10-2020, 01:30 PM   #34
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2001 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Wrench Fixed My Mistake (Minus the Breaking of the Cranks.Bolt) - All Keyed Smooth again - 4

Fixed My Mistake (Minus the Breaking of the Cranks.Bolt) - All Keyed Smooth again - 4
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1_20201010_095821.jpg (96.9 KB, 7 views)
File Type: jpg 2_20201010_095959.jpg (133.7 KB, 8 views)
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“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” - John 3:16 (KJV)
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Old 10-10-2020, 08:10 PM   #35
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2002 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
2003 L-Series 3.0L Wagon
Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Timing Belt Kit + Camshaft + Crankshaft Seals

Overall I think you are doing a good job in following a proper sequence to complete the repair.
The easiest option for the crankshaft bolt is to rent or borrow an impact wrench.
Although I think you can put a socket and breaker bar on a camshaft sprocket bolt to keep the assembly from rotating while you break the crank bolt loose.
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Old 10-10-2020, 08:22 PM   #36
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Thumbs Up Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Timing Belt Kit + Camshaft + Crankshaft Seals

Quote:
Originally Posted by lrbraner View Post
Overall I think you are doing a good job in following a proper sequence to complete the repair.
The easiest option for the crankshaft bolt is to rent or borrow an impact wrench.
Although I think you can put a socket and breaker bar on a camshaft sprocket bolt to keep the assembly from rotating while you break the crank bolt loose.
lbraner,

Thank you! I really don't know if I broke anything. I wish I could borrow one; you may be right on when it comes to renting one.

I was looking in the FSM and found a piece that mentions GM Tool #J42065 (Crank Hub Holding Tool) -- Proprietary tool used to lock the crank hub while you use a 1/2 " breaker bar to break it loose.

This is what the text says from an ad that is selling this tool online:

"Kent Moore J-42065 Crank Hub Holding Tool. This tool shows use; overall good condition. This listing does NOT come with the bolts.

Application:
3.0, Catera

Information
To hold crank to allow removal of the hold-down nut. There are no conventional means of holding the crank without damage. Three bolts are placed in the slotted holes and then threaded into the crank hub. It is used with a 1/2" break bar to hold the crank firmly while removing the hold-down nut. "

-- Hope my correction didn't result in any valve / internal damage. I didn't go too far when my body slipped.

My lack of engine engineering understandings comes into my nativity here. I did my best to put it all back together.

So I think I have two choices now that I found this:

a) Do as you say and borrow or rent an impact wrench

b) Purchase GM Tool #J42065 - Crank Hub Holding Tool and do it the way I was trying to do minus the "g-damm1t"

Thanks a bunch! Stressful stuff man! wow!

~ Best Regards,
Brandon
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“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” - John 3:16 (KJV)

Last edited by BrandonKastning; 10-10-2020 at 08:24 PM. Reason: forgot to add important info
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Old 10-11-2020, 03:00 PM   #37
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2000 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Timing Belt Kit + Camshaft + Crankshaft Seals

Why are you taking off the crank bolt?

In your photos it appears the engine is sagging toward the passenger side. Without the engine mount, the engine will put excess force on the other mounts. Do you have the engine jacked up to take the weight off the remaining mounts? It is much easier to work on the engine while it is slightly lifted.
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Old 10-11-2020, 04:05 PM   #38
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Thumbs Up Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Timing Belt Kit + Camshaft + Crankshaft Seals

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rj 2000 LS2 View Post
Why are you taking off the crank bolt?

In your photos it appears the engine is sagging toward the passenger side. Without the engine mount, the engine will put excess force on the other mounts. Do you have the engine jacked up to take the weight off the remaining mounts? It is much easier to work on the engine while it is slightly lifted.
a) To replace the crankshaft seal

b) Because I do not have a garage and do not want my hydraulic jack stolen
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Old 10-11-2020, 04:19 PM   #39
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2001 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Question This is the correct way my FSM says to remove the crankshaft

I did lookup "Crankshaft" prior to attempting removal of the crankshaft bolt without the proper proprietary GM Crankshaft Hub Locking Tool.

Whether I broke my engine or not I am unsure (Heavily on my mind).

The cam gear sprockets held in place the whole time; however, when I went counter-clockwise attempting to break the bolt loose with the J-xxx69 water pump to crankshaft tool (meant for the force limit of the camshaft gear sprockets *only* ; I understand this now).

So I have the camshaft gear cam sets locked and crank with a breaker bar counter clock-wise enough to lunge forward (it was literally when my force went beyond my comfort level; then it went only so far).

When I kept the keys locked in the camshaft cam sets and "corrected" my mistake of even assuming the J-xxx69 water pump to crankshaft tool would support a breaker bar blow to the crankshaft bolt was beyond foolish.

The direction that I went counter clock-wise; does it matter if I stayed within 60 degrees BTC when I lunged forward? Or would the locking of the camshaft gears *while* the crankshaft *locked w/ the J-xxx69 water pump to crankshaft tool* using a breaker bar ... did I screw up internals?

Looking at the Factory Service Manual (FSM) which is labeled very misleading in my opinion. However; my fault. My rush.

It appears you remove the cam shaft gears first using the J-xxx69 water pump to crankshaft tool with the RED and GREEN keys locked in.

Then break the bolts and remove the entire camshaft gear sprockets and bolts, etc.

Then you use the Crankshaft Hub Locking Tool (which I cannot acquire for a month or so) and bolt it to the crankshaft (3 bolts). -- This lock can actually brace the force of the breaker bar blow to the counter clock-wise direction of the crank to break the crankshaft bolt right off; allowing access to the crankshaft seal for replacement.

If anyone understands my concerns and the internals please let me know. Do you think I broke my engine? Or did the clearance of 60 degrees BTC counter clock-wise breaker bar push work to correct until I get the proper tools to start again? Do you think when the breaker bar lunged and knocked the J-xxx69 water pump to crankshaft locking tool loose and the cam gear sprockets stayed in place with the keys locked; Do you think the sprockets are too sharp for the belt now? Could that force have cause a "knife sharpening" type effect when the impact happened (the first time) and my "correction" back to TDC.

I looked at the camshaft gear sprockets are close to $70 / piece without tax and shipping. Close to $400 for a full new set if I broke the ability to have a new belt on. *DOH*

Attached is the FSM Page of the procedure!
Thanks in advance!

~ Best Regards,
Brandon
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“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” - John 3:16 (KJV)

Last edited by BrandonKastning; 10-11-2020 at 04:29 PM. Reason: forgot important stuff
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Old 10-11-2020, 06:13 PM   #40
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2000 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Timing Belt Kit + Camshaft + Crankshaft Seals

I am quite certain the timing belt kit was not designed to be use to break the crank bolt loose. There are better methods than depending on aluminum parts that were never designed for that kind of force.

I gotta admit... all the work you have done on the side of the road is amazing. It certainly could have not been easy. I still would jack up the engine higher than it sets on the removed engine mount and place wooden blocks under the oil and transmission pan. They are strong enough to share the weight of the engine and you can then access things much better. When I changed my sub frame, I literally has the engine and transmission sitting on blocks. Before anyone asks, I placed the new (used) sub frame under the car before I jacked the engine etc... I cut the old sub frame apart and then raised the new sub frame into place.
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