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-   -   Won't Start after Clutch Replacement... Help! (http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=267806)

Channeler1 11-27-2020 05:29 PM

Won't Start after Clutch Replacement... Help!
 
Hey guys! Back again! 😑

I have a 2005 Saturn vue base 2.2l 5-speed.
I recently had to replace the clutch and clutch line assembly on my Vue... Went fairly well considering, but now that I have it all back together she won't start!

Did the usual grounds and wire checks, fuse checks, relay swaps, as it ended up being grounds on the ECM that kept me from starting the last go round... Ugh...

I have narrowed the problem down to NO spark at the plugs... Grounds seem good, triple checked all the connections, swapped out the ignition coil assembly for another, changes nothing...

Starter turns, no binding, fuel in system and tried with Stater fluid before I pulled the coil pack, not a blip... I have an alarm but it is bypassed in Valet/service mode so should be a none issue.

Any ideas What to try next before I have to send it to the Shop or Stealership to have it diagnosed for the electrical problems?
Anyway to check the ignition coil plug pinout with my meter to check for possible issues or direction to go? 🤔 🤔 🤔

THANKS GUYS!
And hope you're all having a great Holiday weekend so far!

waiter21 11-27-2020 08:01 PM

Re: Won't Start after Clutch Replacement... Help!
 
If the engine was removed:

Verify all ground connections.
Near starter
on ECM - I seem to recall you could put the ground connector on a bolt that wasn't actually ground.
On coil packs and head.

Scroll through posts to look at various ground points

[url]http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=216101[/url]



Verify that the fuel injection and throttle body connectors didn't get reversed. Scroll down to post #16

[url]http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=215542[/url]

fdryer 11-27-2020 10:50 PM

Re: Won't Start after Clutch Replacement... Help!
 
While suspecting lack of spark, did you check for injector operation via spark plug removal and examining them for wet fuel? Fuel pressure and fuel spraying out the fuel test valve verfies pump operation but not injector pulses. Spark plugs should be wet or have a strong smell of fuel after several starting attempts without the engine firing up.

Channeler1 11-28-2020 02:23 PM

Re: Won't Start after Clutch Replacement... Help!
 
Hi Guys!
Thanks for the quick Responses.

@waiter21 - Yep checked and verified ground connectors and continuity tested for engine ground on both engine/trans. Had the ECM ground fault issue before so have since run an additional ground wire to ECM checked and grounded. I've had the engine out before so i don't think that i got those connectors mixed up - but i'll check a 6th time for sure ! :-)

@fdryer - Yes fuel in rail so know pump is at least working. Too remove any thoughts about fuel i removed the Air intake and sprayed Starting Fluid right into the intake opening, That at the VERY least should give me some pops and misfires from the engine if the sparks are firing at all... but dead silent not a backfire or anything... that's how i decided it was no spark as the issue...

I figured even if by some odd chance the Throttle body and Fuel rail connections were mixed I should STILL get some response on Starting Fluid No ??? or would some internal check disable the coil packs from functioning?

Thats why i was trying to see if anyone had testing ideas for the Coil pack pinout if anything could even be tested on that??? Or what is the minimum set of connections that HAVE to be present for there to be spark at the plugs when turning it over?

I have another ECM from the previous engine swap i could try, but getting those connectors off sucks more often than not i break them....
So Frustrating it was running FINE before i did the Clutch replacement and all that work was mechanical parts installs - nothing electrical ! Grrrrrrrr Ugh ~

fdryer 11-28-2020 03:50 PM

Re: Won't Start after Clutch Replacement... Help!
 
Unless someone posts wiring diagrams for igntion, try searching past threads. I've posted wiring here and there from service manuals. Here's a trick that may help. Google Saturn L200 ignition wiring diagram. The search feature here may not be as great as Google with Google search better for suggestions.

Unless you are absolutely sure injectors are operating, you have no proof, hence removing spark plugs to examine them for wet fuel. Please do not assume anything otherwise you may delay troubleshooting by overlooking the easy things too check. Injector operation is separate from fuel pump pressure. Please check for fuel on plugs. If injectors aren't operating, an electronic problem may be wiring or ecm. ECMs rarely fail. And while plugs are out, a spark test can be performed. There's a reason to check for fuel on plugs and spark testing.

With plugs removed, reconnecting the coil pack, icm, plugs, reconnecting wiring, wire all plug bases to engine ground. Remove the fuel pump fuse or pump relay. Have someone start the engine while you observe for spark. All plugs should spark. Without compression, the engine will turnover faster with less load on the starter for this spark test.

If both spark and fuel (on plugs) are missing, the crank sensor probably failed. It's hidden by the starter body. Crankshaft rotation is detected by the crank sensor, generating precise timing signals sent to the ecm. The ecm uses crank timing signals as an electronic clock. This clock allows the ecm to turn on fuel pump, initiate timing for spark and pulse injectors. A dead crank sensor effectively kills the ecm, preventing pump operation, spark and injector pulses. The ecm works only if all its sensors are operating. The crank sensor is the electronic heartbeat of every ecm.

waiter21 11-28-2020 04:48 PM

Re: Won't Start after Clutch Replacement... Help!
 
DO NOT hook up another ECM until you have verified the connectors for the FI and throttle body. If they are mixed, the ECM is toast.

Normally these two connectors are far apart and cannot be mixed. However when the engine gets removed, its possible for these to get re-routed a little and get mixed.

Channeler1 11-29-2020 09:28 PM

Re: Won't Start after Clutch Replacement... Help!
 
FDryer YOU ARE THE MAN !!!!!!

Was looking for that one thing that I was missing to hopefully point me in the right direction of possible issues and you NAILED IT! After reading your last posts went back and physically Unplugged and Checked the connection to the CAM Position Sensor (the only thing i Hadn't rechecked 5 times lol) and low and behold one of the pins was bent and not in the slot! Simple as that !

Must have jammed it in when i was putting it back together and with gloves on under the car in the cold I couldn't feel that it didn't go in smoothly.... Ugh !

10 minutes later fired right up.

Thanks Guys for all the Help !

Looks like another winter out of the Vue after all :):cool::)
2005 Saturn Vue 2.2L 261,521k miles


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