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-   -   04 Vue 3.5 won't crank turnover (http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192561)

talonsaab 06-21-2013 02:47 PM

04 Vue 3.5 won't crank turnover
 
My 04 Vue 3.5 v6 suddenly won't start with a no cranking, no turnover condition. Battery is fairly new with full voltage. All interior accessories are working. I am going to attempt to check the starter relay and try the hammer tap on the starter check. Anything else I should check that tends to fail first on the starter system that is still all original? Any help checking / diagnosis is helpful. Where does the starter switch (+$100) come into this?

Thanks

fdryer 06-21-2013 04:30 PM

Re: 04 Vue 3.5 won't crank turnover
 
The starter relay in the fuse box can be replaced with a similar one and tapping the starter a few times may help. Mileage?

Starter switch? The only switch for starting is the ignition switch, not counting the starter relay and starter solenoid as additional switches.

far2grumpy 06-21-2013 07:08 PM

Re: 04 Vue 3.5 won't crank turnover
 
[QUOTE=talonsaab;1989399]My 04 Vue 3.5 v6 suddenly won't start with a no cranking, no turnover condition. Battery is fairly new with full voltage. All interior accessories are working. I am going to attempt to check the starter relay and try the hammer tap on the starter check. Anything else I should check that tends to fail first on the starter system that is still all original? Any help checking / diagnosis is helpful. Where does the starter switch (+$100) come into this?

Thanks[/QUOTE]

Don't bang too hard. :hmpf:

Did you try to start with shifter to N?

The trans P/N switch might be flaky and you can bypass by replacing the start relay (see next para for location) with a jumper between pins 30 and 87. Please make sure transmission is in either PARK or NEUTRAL if you bypass the relay before turning key to crank.

There is a starter relay - it isn't in fuse box but is in wiring harness to left of fuse box (the other similar relay attached to front of battery box is third relay for the dual radiator fan setup).

talonsaab 06-22-2013 01:33 PM

Re: 04 Vue 3.5 won't crank turnover
 
Well there is some smoke coming from the starter when I try to crank it so I'm sure the starter is shot. It was making some strange growling noises after starting from time to time but this has been for a few years. Anyway, I see the starter at the front of the engine compartment, to the left of the battery area. Does this come out from the top or from below. Both look like poor access. From the top do you have to take off the rad hoses? From the bottom it looks power steering or A/C hoses are in the way.

far2grumpy 06-22-2013 02:51 PM

Re: 04 Vue 3.5 won't crank turnover
 
1 Attachment(s)
[QUOTE=talonsaab;1989581]Well there is some smoke coming from the starter when I try to crank it so I'm sure the starter is shot. It was making some strange growling noises after starting from time to time but this has been for a few years. Anyway, I see the starter at the front of the engine compartment, to the left of the battery area. Does this come out from the top or from below. Both look like poor access. From the top do you have to take off the rad hoses? From the bottom it looks power steering or A/C hoses are in the way.[/QUOTE]

See attached service manual extract ... makes a starter change appear simple. However, tech writers have been known to tell a fib at times.

Good luck to you.

One thing not to worry about are power steering hoses. ;)

talonsaab 06-22-2013 04:38 PM

Re: 04 Vue 3.5 won't crank turnover
 
Well I dove in from the top. I have the service manual and it tells you squat about what is really involved. Remove battery, headlamp, battery tray, move all cables out of the way and try to find those starter bolts. Its all very tight.
The toughest thing is trying to get the two O2 sensor wire connectors apart. I just couldn't do it so worked aroung them. I had to use a long breaker bar to loosen the two starter bolts. I have them off but the starter won't come off. Maybe the paul/tooth thingy is still engaged? I'm going in with a prybar.

talonsaab 06-22-2013 10:40 PM

Re: 04 Vue 3.5 won't crank turnover
 
Just pryed the starter off. Remanufactured one cost me about $200 w/ 3 yr warranty. Install went a lot better except the battery tray is tricky because two bolts are blind. Once all back together started great. Its not that bad a job but does take some time due to the lack of space.

far2grumpy 06-22-2013 11:08 PM

Re: 04 Vue 3.5 won't crank turnover
 
[QUOTE=talonsaab;1989660]Just pryed the starter off. Remanufactured one cost me about $200 w/ 3 yr warranty. Install went a lot better except the battery tray is tricky because two bolts are blind. Once all back together started great. Its not that bad a job but does take some time due to the lack of space.[/QUOTE]

Congratulations for making the repair!!! :yes:

I need to save this thread ... starters don't last forever and you did a good job of explaining steps not included in service manual.

glenstewart 03-01-2014 02:43 PM

Re: 04 Vue 3.5 won't crank turnover
 
Thanks very much for posting your approach. I used the same, and it worked nicely. One thing that threw me, was the placement of the rear battery tray bolt - it's BEHIND the front bracket for the fuse box, which rests on top of the battery tray. To gain access and keep things moveable, remove the two front 10mm fuse bracket nuts, and the rear fuse box bracket nut, located next to the strut tower nut.
[IMG]http://freegroups.net/innovative/glen_stewart/IMG_20140301_105916.jpg[/IMG]

Here's what the end of the starter looks like, once you clear the battery tray out of the way...
[IMG]http://freegroups.net/innovative/glen_stewart/IMG_20140301_105853.jpg[/IMG]


[QUOTE=talonsaab;1989660]Just pryed the starter off. Remanufactured one cost me about $200 w/ 3 yr warranty. Install went a lot better except the battery tray is tricky because two bolts are blind. Once all back together started great. Its not that bad a job but does take some time due to the lack of space.[/QUOTE]


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