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Old 02-02-2009, 07:10 PM   #61
JohnASmith
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Default Re: S-Series Automatic Transaxle "Reverse Slam Cure-All"

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Originally Posted by v@ri@ble View Post
Hey all,

I am so glad I found this post and I am hoping this is what my problem is. I have a 2000 SL2 DOHC that I ended up replacing the motor in. My friend swapped it with one from a 2001. Anyways, the motor has ran great since the swap which was about 6 months ago, but the other night when I went for a drive my tranny seemed to slip a little from 1st to 2nd. I made it to my destination only to find that reverse was now going as well. When I got home and tried it again, reverse was gone and it still slipped going into 2nd. From the sounds of it, this post should be the cure.

I'd like to get a second opinion however so that I am not wasting money on this. I plan to take the contents of plastic torpedo's first post to my local garage and see if they can do this procedure for me since I am not very good at working on cars.

Any thoughts on this one guys???

Thanks!!!
If you take it to a shop they will probably want to pull and overhaul the tranny. It is unlikey they will want to be respomsible if a limited repair doesn't work. See if you can get a friend to help.

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Old 02-17-2009, 03:55 AM   #62
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Default Re: S-Series Automatic Transaxle "Reverse Slam Cure-All"

It has worked for me every time, and worked for the peeps I sold valve bodies to. So I say you got a 99% chance of success. Shouldn't take you more than a couple hours.

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Old 02-17-2009, 08:53 PM   #63
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Default Re: S-Series Automatic Transaxle "Reverse Slam Cure-All"

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It has worked for me every time, and worked for the peeps I sold valve bodies to. So I say you got a 99% chance of success. Shouldn't take you more than a couple hours.
Thanks, I have AAA towing my car Thursday to get it fixed from a friend.

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Old 02-26-2009, 01:25 PM   #64
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Default Re: S-Series Automatic Transaxle "Reverse Slam Cure-All"

So...I just got a call from AAMCO saying that the valve body started to go out and the lack of pressure from that caused it to burn up both clutches? $1825 for a rebuilt and $325 for a new torque converter and they will replace the valve body free of charge.

I stopped driving it the day it started slipping. I'm having a hard time believing AAMCO but I have no clue.

I'm thinking about just having it towed back home and finding someone to put in a used one for me.

What a f'ing b*tch this is.

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Old 02-26-2009, 02:01 PM   #65
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Default Re: S-Series Automatic Transaxle "Reverse Slam Cure-All"

Based on my experience I don't believe it.

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Old 02-26-2009, 03:20 PM   #66
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Default Re: S-Series Automatic Transaxle "Reverse Slam Cure-All"

Quote:
Originally Posted by v@ri@ble View Post
So...I just got a call from AAMCO saying that the valve body started to go out and the lack of pressure from that caused it to burn up both clutches? $1825 for a rebuilt and $325 for a new torque converter and they will replace the valve body free of charge.

I stopped driving it the day it started slipping. I'm having a hard time believing AAMCO but I have no clue.

I'm thinking about just having it towed back home and finding someone to put in a used one for me.

What a f'ing b*tch this is.
Interesting, here's a question that i dont think i've seen discussed here,
CAN A BAD VALVE BODY CAUSE DAMAGE TO OTHER PARTS OF THE TRANSMISSION?

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Old 02-26-2009, 04:51 PM   #67
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Default Re: S-Series Automatic Transaxle "Reverse Slam Cure-All"

It seems a little fishy to me too. I am going to have it towed back home and try to replace the valve body myself and see what happens.

They said the valve body caused a change in pressure and that is what caused the clutches to burn up.

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Old 02-26-2009, 04:57 PM   #68
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Default Re: S-Series Automatic Transaxle "Reverse Slam Cure-All"

They're trying to rip you off. I got many quotes like that when I was researching my options.
You HAVE to torque the input shaft nut to spec, not just replace the valve body, or it will not work.
I drove my car with slipping gears for over a year before all hell went loose, and it still worked like a champ after that.

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Old 02-26-2009, 06:48 PM   #69
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Default Re: S-Series Automatic Transaxle "Reverse Slam Cure-All"

I ran my 2000 and 2002 SL2's for a long time before finally fixing the valve bodies which only involved replacing one valve in my 2002. I had my 2000 rebuilt but now I know that was not necessary. The nut they keep talking about can loosen from hard shifting but I was very careful to back off the accelerator to prevent that. I would not have considered Aamco even if a complete rebuild was necessary. They donít fix transmissions they sell you rebuilt ones no matter what the problem. I suspect they donít have clue what is wrong with yours they just gave you the same diagnosis they give everyone.

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Old 02-27-2009, 01:15 AM   #70
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Default Re: S-Series Automatic Transaxle "Reverse Slam Cure-All"

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I ran my 2000 and 2002 SL2's for a long time before finally fixing the valve bodies which only involved replacing one valve in my 2002. I had my 2000 rebuilt but now I know that was not necessary. The nut they keep talking about can loosen from hard shifting but I was very careful to back off the accelerator to prevent that. I would not have considered Aamco even if a complete rebuild was necessary. They donít fix transmissions they sell you rebuilt ones no matter what the problem. I suspect they donít have clue what is wrong with yours they just gave you the same diagnosis they give everyone.
It's in my driveway as we speak. I had it towed back to my house and will replace the parts. I'll keep you updated...should start on it by Monday. AAMCO did find me a brand new valve body for $239 with shipping.

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Old 02-27-2009, 01:53 AM   #71
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Default Re: S-Series Automatic Transaxle "Reverse Slam Cure-All"

Watch the video for replacing selenoids. Once you are in there it's not that much harder to change out the entire valve body. I hope the selenoids were included because that's probably the problem?

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Old 02-27-2009, 08:17 AM   #72
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Default Re: S-Series Automatic Transaxle "Reverse Slam Cure-All"

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Originally Posted by v@ri@ble View Post
It's in my driveway as we speak. I had it towed back to my house and will replace the parts. I'll keep you updated...should start on it by Monday. AAMCO did find me a brand new valve body for $239 with shipping.
A BRAND NEW valve body for 239.00, are you sure its not a rebuilt, if not
where can i get one of those?

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Old 02-28-2009, 01:24 PM   #73
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Default Re: S-Series Automatic Transaxle "Reverse Slam Cure-All"

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A BRAND NEW valve body for 239.00, are you sure its not a rebuilt, if not
where can i get one of those?
Sorry, it is a rebuild. I typed new by mistake.

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Old 02-28-2009, 01:37 PM   #74
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Default Re: S-Series Automatic Transaxle "Reverse Slam Cure-All"

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Sorry, it is a rebuild. I typed new by mistake.
Even that is a great price considering one selenoid is $80.

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Old 03-11-2009, 08:22 PM   #75
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Default Re: S-Series Automatic Transaxle "Reverse Slam Cure-All"

There's a guy on ebay that sells Sonnax rebuilt valve bodies. I'd buy from him. He's an established member on 6thsphere and he's an honest person, and I've personally worked with him on some other projects, so that's your best bet. Sonnax parts make your valve body bulletproof.

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Old 04-05-2009, 02:59 PM   #76
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Default Re: S-Series Automatic Transaxle "Reverse Slam Cure-All"

'98 SL2 with rough upshifts from 2nd to 3rd gear and maybe also from 1st to 2nd gear and seeking advice on what to do next. Did Wolfmann's reverse slam fix (twice, sort of), drained the fluid twice, and opened the side cover but only torqued the output shaft nut, not the input shaft not. It's much better now but still a little rough on some upshifts. Fluid got burnt recently and I'm wondering if that could be causing my problems instead of the input shaft nut being loose?

My '98 SL2 has 159,000 miles. Transmission mostly fine since a dealer repair in 1999, with occasional rough downshifts from 4th to 3rd gear when climbing hills. Had the fluid drain and fill at least 6 times (before problems started)--every 30,000 miles plus an extra. Done 5 times by Saturn dealer and once by 3rd party using Wix filter instead of OEM.

Fluid was last changed 12,000 miles ago at 147K. Last week Saturday I drove to Tahoe and back with a friend, involving lots of mountain climbing with an extra 300 lbs of stuff in the car (my friend and ski stuff). On way down I used 2nd/3rd gear engine breaking a lot, and when my frien drove he pushed the car hard. Wednesday night suddenly getting reverse slam and hard upshifts. Immediately got a bottle of Seaform transmission treatment, put in half pint and did Wolfmann's "reverse slam cure" for 45 minutes but without first changing fluid. This immediately eliminated the reverse slam problem, but I was still getting hard upshifts. Noticed tranny fluid smelled burnt.

Thursday reverse slam problem returned. Had Saturn dealer drain and fill, their tech notes said fluid was burnt and they only drain 4 out of 7 quarts so I still had 3 quarts burnt fluid mixing with 4 qts new fluid. Problem was further improved, but not cured.

Friday I bought new input and output shaft nuts and end cover gasket, total $20 including tax. At Kragen/O'Reilly bought jack+jackstands+creeper for $50, 4 qts ATF fluid, drain pan, and 23mm 12-point normal (not thin-wall) socket. Mind you I have never before jacked up my car or changed the oil, but reading these forums gave me the confidence to try.

First did Wolfmann's reverse slam cure again, this time with new fluid for 35 minutes. Afterward reverse slam seemed slightly better but still hard upshifts.
Lifted car, removed wheel and splash guard, lowered engine cradle by loosening left-side cradle bolts, and removed end cover, but bent longer of the two tubes while pulling out cover. My neighbor helped by turning the steering wheel to the left as I pulled out the cover, which rotated the brake calipers out of the way. Discovered 23mm socket wouldn't fit because it wasn't thin-wall. Ran to Kragen, returned socket, rented axle nut set with 30mm socket for $6/day (becasue a new one was $16). Ran to Lowe's HW, bought their 23mm 12-pt socket but it also wouldn't fit.

Torqued output shaft nut to 111 foot-pounds, but it was already at/near 111. Could only get about 20 ft-lbs on input shaft nut because socket wouldn't go in. It wasn't loose, less than 1mm of in/out free shaft movement. Put in new gasket, and couldn't get the end cover back on becasue the tube was bent. Put on and pulled off end-cover 4 times each time trying to unbend the tube and rotating the steering to get it in and out. Finally removed brake caliper and hung it from coil spring, and was able to get cover back on 5th try. Put everything back together, raised cradle, drained and filled fluid, and low and behold my problem was much, much better. Reverse slam is gone, and upshifts are only slightly rough and only sometimes, whereas the day before most upshift were rough with a big jerk.

So a few questions....
  • How does the dealer get the cover off without bending the tube? Do they remove the dogbone? lower the cradle? Remove top engine mount? Remove coil spring? They wanted $400 to tighten the input shaft nut.
  • Could burnt fluid be causing my hard upshifts? Or more likely valve body problem?
  • Since input shaft nut had no free play, but I couldn't torque it, could that still be the problem? Should I mail order a 23mm thinwall socket and do this again?
  • If burned all the fluid, how many times do I need to drain and fill to make it new enough? Assuming each drain gets 4/7 qts (57%), then after 2nd drain my fluid is 18% burnt, and if I do a 3rd drain and fill it will be 8% burnt, 4th drain and fill about 4% old/burnt fluid.
  • If I drain and fill a few more times to clear burnt fluid, do I need to replace the filter multiple times?
  • Is it possible I just need to let the PCM relearn shift points, or disconnect battery to reset PCM? Have only driven 16 miles since 2nd drain and fill.

Anyway, it was much more work than I anticipated because of removing the brake caliper and not having the right 23mm socket, but it was almost fun. And now I know how to change my own transmission fluid. I'm going to drive the car a few more days and see if the hard upshifting gets better or worse, and if the reverse slam comes back. Hoping I don't have to replace valve body... dealer wanted $830 for a new one (would need to find a rebuilt one).

Big BIG thanks to all on this forum who have provided advice and how-to's.

--John Kim

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Old 04-05-2009, 10:12 PM   #77
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Default Re: S-Series Automatic Transaxle "Reverse Slam Cure-All"

Well, I hate to say it but you're not going to eliminate the problem that way.
The only reason why the input shaft nut backs off is because the valve body has a worn out boost valve inside. Once the boost valve wears out, the valve body starts slamming in reverse. Once the transmission starts slamming in reverse, the input shaft nut backs off. So this is all because of the valve body. What you did will only be a temporary fix unless you get the valve body replace. Drive to your local pull-a-part and get a valve body. Here they don't know what kind of part it is and only charge $35 for one. So you should be able to get one real cheap to drop into your car.

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Old 04-06-2009, 08:17 AM   #78
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Default Re: S-Series Automatic Transaxle "Reverse Slam Cure-All"

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Well, I hate to say it but you're not going to eliminate the problem that way.
The only reason why the input shaft nut backs off is because the valve body has a worn out boost valve inside. Once the boost valve wears out, the valve body starts slamming in reverse. Once the transmission starts slamming in reverse, the input shaft nut backs off. So this is all because of the valve body. What you did will only be a temporary fix unless you get the valve body replace. Drive to your local pull-a-part and get a valve body. Here they don't know what kind of part it is and only charge $35 for one. So you should be able to get one real cheap to drop into your car.
If the car is slamming a little when in drive but not reverse could it
still be the input shaft nut?

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Old 04-07-2009, 02:13 AM   #79
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Default Re: S-Series Automatic Transaxle "Reverse Slam Cure-All"

Plastic Torpedo,

Help me out with the right fix recommendation. You quoted Wolfman saying if it's reverse slam only, it's valve body 99% of the time. If it's both reverse slam and bad 2nd gear upshift, it's loose input shaft nut 99% of the time. I have both these problems and thought the point was many of these problems could be fixed by torquing (and maybe replacing) the input shaft nut if it had backed off. And that many times the reverse slam could be cured by running the car in reverse for 30 minutes with fresh tranny fluid and some tranny cleaner, which cleans gunks/deposits out of the valve body, right?

I understand the valve body problems cause the reverse slam, which causes the input nut to back off. So are my rough upshifts caused by the loose input nut or the valve body problems? You're saying if I torque the input nut, it might fix both my problems temporarily, or will fix only the 2nd gear upshift problem until the continuing reverse slams make the input nut back off again?

I am thinking you're right about the valve body, as my shifting problems seem to be worse when the car has warmed up. Another post said sometimes a failed solenoid will work fine when car is cold but not at operating temps.

So can the valve body problems cause both reverse slam and rough upshift (2nd to 3rd) even if the input shaft nut is nice and tight? If my problem is the boost valve and I put on a rebuilt valve body to fix that, will I still need to tighten the input shaft nut?

Can a worn boost valve make my tranny more likely to overheat during uphill driving? I'm still trying to figure out how I burnt my fluid and how to prevent that from happening again, other than installing a tranny cooler.

--John Kim

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Old 04-07-2009, 10:47 AM   #80
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Default Re: S-Series Automatic Transaxle "Reverse Slam Cure-All"

I had a 2000 SL2 with severe reverse slam. I tried everything before eventually replacing the valve body. No issues with the input shaft nut in spite of 6 months of slamming though I tried to be gentle. My next Saturn was a 2002 SL2 and it developed hard shifting from 2nd to 3rd. I replaced one seleniod following the video on a previous post. That fixed it.

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