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Old 03-18-2007, 07:23 AM   #1
webhair
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Default Issues installing trailer hitch and electrical

I had ordered and installed the factory trailer receiver hitch and electrical receptical... Installation was fairly easy... But I can only get the park lights on the trailer to work. The turn signals and brakes do not work. I had given up and took it to the dealer...

Ok - so taking it in to the dealer did not help any - so far. After 4 hours of playing with it...

I appears that the factory wiring harness for the basic trailering (4 wire) on the none towing package models is none functioning. The ones with the towing package are fine. If it did not come with the towing package then there is a wiring harness tucked up under the bumper for what one would think is for use if you decided to add a hitch...

Here is the interesting part. You would need to add relay and fuse for the LT Turn/Brake light and one for the RT Turn/Brake light... But the catch is that there are not contacts on one side of the relay socket... Basically no way to activate the wiring. We even did a side by side comparision of two on the show room floor. The one with the towing package had a fuse box with contacts for all four points of the relay. It also had a 7 wire harness (LT turn, RT turn, brake, ground, power, reverse lights and electronic brakes). The one without the towing package had a 4 wire (LT turn, RT turn, brake and ground) and only 2 contacts in the fuse box for the 4 pronged relay.

The dealer called tech support... they had no idea. Then they got a hold of a master tech (with tech support). He said it looked like it may have been a design flaw and the dealer needed to replace the fuse box with a V92 fuse box (the one for the CUVs with the towing option).

They were going to order one.... I left.

Three hours later one of the service intake guys called me to tell me that they (shop guys) have been discussing the issue and do not think that replacing the fuse box will solve my problem and their for is not really an issue since mine did not come with a towing package.... and that it would not be covered under warranty. Yes = I add the factory parts... Hitch and electrical receptical... He even admitted that he does not know anything about trailers or wiring for them.

Well of course that just set me off. Basically I told him that I guess instead of talking to him I should be turning this over to my lawyer as this vehical has a design fault and that they are not going to do anything to rectify it. Yes there was more discussion before that statement came out...

Never the less - he directed me to Saturn's Customer Service Center... I called them - reported the issue. They called the dealerships general manager and he was out. They will be getting in touch with him on Monday now to "see what can be worked out"...

I am going to argue with them on this one...

Am I wrong? I think a factory wiring harness - that came on the vehicle - should work.

mmm If it is not something that they can make work... Lemon Law.

Hey they built the vehicle with the wiring harness....

Now that I am done venting... If there is anyone out there that is trying to add either a factory or aftermarket (yes - there are a few out now). Please let me know how it goes on getting the electrical worked out.

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Old 03-18-2007, 02:06 PM   #2
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Default Re: Issues installing trailer hitch and electrical

I don't think that you are realistic in going after Satrun for not haing a working trailer wiring harness in a car that was not ordered with the trailering package. If there is a wiring harness there to support trailer wiring at the rear then it would be because it can be easier and cheaper to have one rear wiring harness than to have several. Especially if the only difference is the trailer wiring.
They should not be expected to make something work that was not designed to work. If you had bought the trailing spec vehicle then you would have a case.

All that said perhaps you need to find a hitch shop or trailer shop that specializes in this work. Sounds like your local Saturn does not not much about wiring trailers. I have not done/seen enough work on the Outlooks to remember if the brake and signal lights are seperate--we just recently started to get them for sale up here. If the brake and signal lights are seperate ones then there are adaptors that are available to take the two wires from the car into the adaptor and convert them to the one wire out for the trailers which normally have the brake and signal lights as the one light.

It is easy to install. The adaptors have been out in the aftermarket for longer than Saturn has been around and they work well. You need to cut into the wiring harness for the rear lights so you want to do a good job of it with heat shrink connectors so that water does not start to corrode the wiring.

...
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Old 03-18-2007, 07:06 PM   #3
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Default Re: Issues installing trailer hitch and electrical

Well - I would have agreed with you if the wiring harnesses were the same but they are not.

The Outlooks with the towing package have a 7 wire harness (adds electronic brakes, reverse lights and pwer for charging a battery)

Where as the standard - without the towing package has a 4 wire harness.... LT / RT turns, brake and park lights...

It would not have been a issue if they (one guy at the dealer) were not being such a butt head about it. Now it is a princple thing...

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Old 03-20-2007, 03:35 PM   #4
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Default Re: Issues installing trailer hitch and electrical

It's totally absurd and rediculous to expect warranty for altering the wiring for a trailer connection, on a vehicle that WASNT ordered with the trailering option.
So WHAT if it's wired unconventionally, LOTS of newer cars and trucks are!
The neccesity of additional wiring and fuses is common practise these days as the fuseblocks are now fully bussed and can be different depending on optional equipment.
It's not your dealer's or SATURNS issue IMO, it's YOURS!
Hey's a nickel... buy a clue
WOT

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Old 03-20-2007, 03:38 PM   #5
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Default Re: Issues installing trailer hitch and electrical

Thanks to WOP and his brilliant spelling, and almost helpful assistance to no one but his own attempt at an ego.

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Old 03-20-2007, 04:07 PM   #6
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Default Re: Issues installing trailer hitch and electrical

Quote:
Originally Posted by rayzur9 View Post
Thanks to WOP and his brilliant spelling, and almost helpful assistance to no one but his own attempt at an ego.
Your Welcome! (digs in pocket for another nickel)

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Old 03-20-2007, 06:59 PM   #7
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Default Re: Issues installing trailer hitch and electrical

Quote:
Originally Posted by WopOnTour View Post
It's totally absurd and rediculous to expect warranty for altering the wiring for a trailer connection, on a vehicle that WASNT ordered with the trailering option.
So WHAT if it's wired unconventionally, LOTS of newer cars and trucks are!
The neccesity of additional wiring and fuses is common practise these days as the fuseblocks are now fully bussed and can be different depending on optional equipment.
It's not your dealer's or SATURNS issue IMO, it's YOURS!
Hey's a nickel... buy a clue
WOT
I do not know what your back ground is but it is obvious you really do not understand the issue.

The issue is very plan and simple:
There is a factory wiring harness there for adding a hitch (it is on all Outlooks that did not come with the towing package). I just want it to function as it was designed to do.

So your tell us that you have absolutely no issues what so ever with yours? If so - good for you. I wish you the best.

So for me - I want what was built into the vehicle to function!

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Old 03-20-2007, 07:48 PM   #8
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Default Re: Issues installing trailer hitch and electrical

I understand the issue perfectly
If you did not order your vehicle with the V92 trailering provisions, you can not expect the blunt-cut portions of the factory harness to function directly as a method of connecting your trailer connector.The V92 option also includes a small harness to allow easy connecion to an electronic trailer brake controller.

Unfortunately, you'll likely have to "tap" into the various lighting circuits as was once common practise. Adding the 2 relays and 2 fuses into the fuseblock may not work because modern fuse blocks are "bussed" (meaning they have considerable internal wiring) and the part number used may be quite different depending on optional content (in this case the V92 trailering provisions appears to be the case here)

ssicarman had good advise, look for aftermarket companies that are/will soon be offering a convenient trailering connection solution. In short your Outlook is probably operating as designed, and no attempt to alter the electrical system to "add" V92 should be made at any dealership as a warranty repair. Whatever they can do to help you get access to the appropriate circuits should be at your expense.
If it will help you, provide me an email address that accepts attachments via a PM, I'd be willing to send you a schematic of the trailering wiring provisions for the Outlook. (assuming your dealer didnt already provide them to you)
JMO
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Last edited by WopOnTour; 03-20-2007 at 07:59 PM..

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Old 03-20-2007, 08:06 PM   #9
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Default Re: Issues installing trailer hitch and electrical

Quote:
Originally Posted by WopOnTour View Post
I understand the issue perfectly
If you did not order your vehicle with the V92 trailering provisions, you can not expect the blunt-cut portions of the factory harness to function directly as a method of connecting your trailer connector.The V92 option also includes a small harness to allow easy connecion to an electronic trailer brake controller.

Unfortunately, you'll likely have to "tap" into the various lighting circuits as was once common practise. Adding the 2 relays and 2 fuses into the fuseblock may not work because modern fuse blocks are "bussed" (meaning they have considerable internal wiring) and the part number used may be quite different depending on optional content (in this case the V92 trailering provisions appears to be the case here)

ssicarman had good advise, look for aftermarket companies that are/will soon be offering a convenient trailering connection solution. In short your Outlook is probably operating as designed, and no attempt to alter the electrical system to "add" V92 should be made at any dealership as a warranty repair. Whatever they can do to help you get access to the appropriate circuits should be at your expense.
If it will help you, provide me an email address that accepts attachments via a PM, I'd be willing to send you a schematic of the trailering wiring provisions for the Outlook. (assuming your dealer didnt already provide them to you)
JMO
WopOnTour
EDIT> I just checked with another source and it appears that the BCM my have to be reprogrammed for V92 trailering for the relays to function correctly. So assuming the the 2 relays and fuses have been added, AND a different bussed electrical center (fuseblock) is NOT required, then maybe in your case that's all that is going to be required. Will look into this further tommorrow.WOT

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Old 03-21-2007, 05:57 PM   #10
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Default Re: Issues installing trailer hitch and electrical

Quote:
Originally Posted by WopOnTour View Post
EDIT> I just checked with another source and it appears that the BCM my have to be reprogrammed for V92 trailering for the relays to function correctly. So assuming the the 2 relays and fuses have been added, AND a different bussed electrical center (fuseblock) is NOT required, then maybe in your case that's all that is going to be required. Will look into this further tommorrow.WOT
I appreciate your looking into this. It just seems silly to me that they would include a 4 wire harness and no way to make it functional.

I have seen the wiring schematic (I do not have it) To me it looked like it was for the towing package. I would think there would one for the vehicles with the towing package also - as they are different...

If you could send it to me that would be great --- e-mail address is finkleschmitt@hotmail.com

Part of me is wondering if it is just a simple fact of it not using the relays as the draw would not be any more then 3 amps... In that case they could have bypassed the relay in the bus and just relied on the fuses (which are there). So then they would just need to activate it in the BCM.

I did stop by the trailer shop the dealer is referring me to - so far they do not understand why it is not working either and are also going to do some more research on it also.... They have another Outlook schedule for an install on Friday...

I fully expected to have to pay for it to be activated... But if they it is a design flaw... Then I do not.

I will say the whole thing seems silly to be going through... but then again - the joy of owning a brand new model....

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Old 03-22-2007, 05:32 PM   #11
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Default Re: Issues installing trailer hitch and electrical

Oops
Consider this an official apology to the original poster. It appears there may be a bit more to this than I had originally considered. Sorry!

There really is no obvious reason why the turn signal and brake light circuits available to the "basic trailer connector" (X442- tucked/taped behind the RH rear bumper fascia) shouldn't be able to provide all of the basic trailer lighting circuits.In fact, (as you probably know full well) it's stated as such in your owners manual.(see quote below)

But it appears there may NOT be all of the convenience wiring provisions provided for a certain other RV/large trailer circuits such as the trailer brake and B+ charging circuits made available from the factory UNLESS you have the V92 Trailering Provision option. They certainly could be added though, as has been the normal practice prior to the availability of OEM factory trailer wiring.

Quote:
Originally Posted by owners manual
Trailer Wiring Harness
Your vehicle is equipped with the following wiring harness for towing a trailer.

Basic Trailer Wiring
The trailer wiring harness, with a seven-pin connector, is located at the rear of the vehicle and is tied to the vehicle's frame. The harness connector can be plugged into a seven-pin universal heavy-duty trailer connector available through your dealer/retailer.

The seven-wire harness contains the following trailer circuits:

• Yellow: Left Stop/Turn Signal
• Dark Green: Right Stop/Turn Signal
• Brown: Taillamps
• White: Ground
• Light Green: Back-up Lamps
• Red: Battery Feed*
• Dark Blue: Trailer Brake*

*The fuses for these two circuits are installed in the underhood electrical center, but the wires are not connected. They should be connected by your dealer/retailer or a qualified service center.
As far as I can tell there is NOT a different fuseblock for the trailer option as I had previously speculated. (Same part number) However the necessary fuses and/or relays MAY need to be installed into the underhood fuseblock.

What I still haven't been able to 100% determine, if whether any/all of the necessary fuses and relays have been installed in a NON-V92 Outlook/Acadias (all that I currently have access to HAVE the V92 trailering option)
OR ONE OTHER POTENTIAL ISSUE
If there is special software within the BCM that needs to be installed/initiated before it will control the turn/brake relays for the trailer, that. From what I can tell this looks doubtful as the software for the BCM is identical for all Outlook/Acadias and the latest TECH2 software does not show this function as available.

So I've attached an underhood fuseblock diagram. If your vehicle HAS the V92 Trailering Provisions option then ALL of the relays and fuses (outlined in red) should be there. To determine IF you have the V92 option you can check the Regular Production Code (RPO) option listing on the Service Parts IDentification (SPID) label in your glove box.

If you DON'T have the trailer towing option then... then you will have... well you tell me!

HTH
WopOnTour
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Last edited by WopOnTour; 03-22-2007 at 05:39 PM..

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Old 03-23-2007, 07:26 AM   #12
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Default Re: Issues installing trailer hitch and electrical

Expect a TSB on the trailer wiring for non-V92 vehicles. If you want a trailer harness, I "strongly" suggest you order V92 on your Outlook.

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Old 03-23-2007, 12:15 PM   #13
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Default Re: Issues installing trailer hitch and electrical

WopOnTour - thanks for the apology... and I owe you one to. You have more knowledge on the subject then I gave you credit for.

I have purchased the relays and it did come with the fuses. However - the are only connections on built into the fuse box for one side of the relays...

It is an interesting dilemma.

KenSaturn - it is good to hear that there will be a TSB... I hope it is good news for those of us that already bought our Outlooks without the towing option...

As for those who are thinking about buying an Outlook - go a head a get one with the towing package - it will be easier in the long run.

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Old 03-26-2007, 08:32 PM   #14
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Default Re: Issues installing trailer hitch and electrical

Quote:
Originally Posted by KenSatrun View Post
Expect a TSB on the trailer wiring for non-V92 vehicles. If you want a trailer harness, I "strongly" suggest you order V92 on your Outlook.
So - is it possible to have a dealer install the v92 package after you already purchased the car? I am thinking it may be a little pricey - but worth it.

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Old 03-26-2007, 09:51 PM   #15
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Default Re: Issues installing trailer hitch and electrical

Quote:
Originally Posted by webhair View Post
So - is it possible to have a dealer install the v92 package after you already purchased the car? I am thinking it may be a little pricey - but worth it.
Well, the trailer hitch bolts on, so that's easy. But the radiator is also bigger, and I think it may have a trans oil cooler integrated into it also. I guess maybe this could be retrofitted, but it won't be simple and won't be cheap! And you're probably SOL regarding the tow switch on the IP that changes shift calibrations. And as we're hearing, the electrical system is pretty high tech. Getting a harness on and working isn't clear yet.

Sooo.... if you want to trailer, get the factory package!!!

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Old 03-28-2007, 12:11 PM   #16
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Default Re: Issues installing trailer hitch and electrical

I pretty much figured...

Thanks

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Old 03-28-2007, 12:32 PM   #17
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Default Re: Issues installing trailer hitch and electrical

From my experience with the electrical design of these vehicles the electrical center is the same whether the vehicle has trailering or not, but the content - fuses, relays, etc. - in the electrical center will be present only if the trailering option is present. This also applies for the circuits in the harness. The vehicles that do not have trailering will not have the wires in the harnesses going from the electrical center to the rear of the vehicle.

...
Ed Nunez
2007 Outlook XR FWD

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Old 03-29-2007, 07:41 AM   #18
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Default Re: Issues installing trailer hitch and electrical

Quote:
Originally Posted by ed nunez View Post
From my experience with the electrical design of these vehicles the electrical center is the same whether the vehicle has trailering or not, but the content - fuses, relays, etc. - in the electrical center will be present only if the trailering option is present. This also applies for the circuits in the harness. The vehicles that do not have trailering will not have the wires in the harnesses going from the electrical center to the rear of the vehicle.

All 2007 Outlooks have a trailer harness / wires to the rear. even those without V92.

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Old 03-30-2007, 06:52 PM   #19
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Default Re: Issues installing trailer hitch and electrical

Quote:
Originally Posted by KenSatrun View Post
All 2007 Outlooks have a trailer harness / wires to the rear. even those without V92.
Yes they all do. But the question still comes back as to how to activate it?

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Old 04-01-2007, 12:19 PM   #20
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Default Re: Issues installing trailer hitch and electrical

Quote:
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Yes they all do. But the question still comes back as to how to activate it?
I didn't say it worked....just that it was there!

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