Would you still buy a Relay?

[boone]

We're considering trading our 2003 VTi VUE before the transmission warranty expires later this year. I'm looking at the new VUEs but I'm also considering something bigger to give us room for our two kids in car seats. The local Saturn dealer has one 2007 Relay 2 left, and the salesperson assured me they would make me a good deal on it if I wanted it. It looked pretty nice, but I didn't have time to drive it at the time. It had a DVD system and some other automatic gizmos.

So some questions:

1) Given the problems of previous model years, does the 2007 have all the kinks worked out?

2) What are the implications of the Relay being dropped as a product line? Assuming I keep the van for over 5 years, resale isn't a big concern. Anything else?

3) What would you consider "a good deal" on it? The sticker was like $27k. Current financing on the Relay is only 0% for 36 months. I guess I would expect better financing and/or a drop in the sticker (or a really good VTi trade in value) to consider it a good deal. I'm not sure what sort of flexibility Saturn dealers have in the sticker price though.

Before you mention the Outlook, I drove an XE, and I liked it OK, but with 2 car seats, the 3rd row is not accessible because you can't slide the seats forward to get there. I haven't seen an XR with captain's chairs to see if that would work, but I'm not a fan of the fake wood interior. The wood on the Relay and the V6 VUE was annoying but tolerable. Also the Outlook would probably cost me a good bit more than that particular Relay.

Any comments on the Relay would be appreciated.

[ThePlainsman]

Originally Posted by boone

We're considering trading our 2003 VTi VUE before the transmission warranty expires later this year. I'm looking at the new VUEs but I'm also considering something bigger to give us room for our two kids in car seats. The local Saturn dealer has one 2007 Relay 2 left, and the salesperson assured me they would make me a good deal on it if I wanted it. It looked pretty nice, but I didn't have time to drive it at the time. It had a DVD system and some other automatic gizmos.

So some questions:

1) Given the problems of previous model years, does the 2007 have all the kinks worked out?

2) What are the implications of the Relay being dropped as a product line? Assuming I keep the van for over 5 years, resale isn't a big concern. Anything else?

3) What would you consider "a good deal" on it? The sticker was like $27k. Current financing on the Relay is only 0% for 36 months. I guess I would expect better financing and/or a drop in the sticker (or a really good VTi trade in value) to consider it a good deal. I'm not sure what sort of flexibility Saturn dealers have in the sticker price though.

Before you mention the Outlook, I drove an XE, and I liked it OK, but with 2 car seats, the 3rd row is not accessible because you can't slide the seats forward to get there. I haven't seen an XR with captain's chairs to see if that would work, but I'm not a fan of the fake wood interior. The wood on the Relay and the V6 VUE was annoying but tolerable. Also the Outlook would probably cost me a good bit more than that particular Relay.

Any comments on the Relay would be appreciated.

Hell no. We considered a minivan but it has too many limitations. Our 8 adult passenger AWD Outlook XR is awesome! Don't throw away your money on a minivan. We had one for 10 years. It had AWD too (obviously, it wasn't a Relay). We enjoyed it when the kids were babies but we'd never go back to one.

[tableforSeven]

I'm sure a lot of the 'kinks' in the 2005 are gone -- I have a 2005 and never had any major problems (just a minor thing with the radio - but that was replaced quickly).

I think the main reason that the Relay was dropped was that people think it's "ugly" (personally, I like the look). And it does seem like people are starting to leave the mini-van market.

I'm not sure what I would consider a 'good deal' - I honestly haven't thought about that. We are looking to replace our Relay because our payments are too high (financial situation changed since we bought it 2+ years ago). So we will really be looking into prices/deals soon.

We have the same carseat issues as you. When we bought the Relay we had 2 kids in carseats - another one still in a booster - and two using regular seat belts. We bought the Relay 2 with cloth seats (since there is more room between the middle-row seats with cloth instead of "captains chairs". That way - the boys and their carseats were in the middle seats (and easy to buckle in with the dual sliding doors) and the older kids could easily get thorugh to the back without having to rearrange the seats. We've graduated to one carseat and two boosters -- but I still like the ease of my minivan with the automatic sliding door and easy access for me to get the younger kids buckled in.

I have to admit -- even though I really do love my Relay - I'm leaning toward a different minivan for our future. The pick-up in the Relay is great (I can pull onto the highway, even with all 5 kids and a bunch of stuff loading it down, without worrying that it won't get up to speed fast enough)....but, honestly, the storage stinks. I dread having to groceries if I'm in the Relay (I try to shop when I can use my husband's Ion). We have taken long vacations and fit everything we needed for a family of 7 to be gone for a full week....but, for day-to-day -- it just isn't working well for me.
Like you - I'm not looking for the Outlook -- yes, an extra seat would be nice (so one of the kids can bring a friend along sometimes) -- but at the stage we're in (still having young kids) a minivan is really what we need.

I guess I'm saying that while, yes, I would look into a Relay - if you can get a good deal....then it really is a good choice. But - it's not the only minivan in the sea (so to speak)...so definately look around. (Sorry to sound so wishy-washy.)

Good Luck

[4littlemonkeys]

I wouldn't...but that's because I've been burned with a bad experience.

Would I tell others to get one? I would tell them what I have gone through and continue to deal with but I wouldn't say to avoid it. I just wouldn't tell them go for it because it's wonderful.

I wouldn't buy one. I wouldn't tell somebody else they should or shouldn't buy one. I would just tell them the troubles I've had and they can go from there.

I wouldn't say I won't buy one and not tell somebody why.

[BobbyP]

The Relay has always had too many major and wierd problems. You'd be best to stay away... The VUE is a proven product.

[nakman]

There are just too many better options available to you outside of Saturn. I'm on my second Saturn VUE and really would like to support them. I even looked at the Relay and I've driven quite a few different makes of minivan. You could spend less and get a better van. Even a Chryler/Dodge.....and I'm not a big fan......

With a couple of kids in boaster seats and a mid sized dog, the VUE does OK. If we need some extra room, we have a roof carrier and in a pinch, we rent a van. It costs less than operating a van year round and we get to check out new stuff. JMHO anyway.....

[BobbyP]

Chrysler has always been ahead of the curve in minivan design. They may not be as reliable as the Japanese minivans, but they are better designed. The GM minivans always felt like they were a generation or two behind the rest of the competition.

[cdp326]

Originally Posted by BobbyP

Chrysler has always been ahead of the curve in minivan design. They may not be as reliable as the Japanese minivans, but they are better designed. The GM minivans always felt like they were a generation or two behind the rest of the competition.

Back at the end of the 1990s, the GM vans were among the better vans before a Honda Odyssey. GM did give us the first power sliding door (though it took them a bit more than half a decade to make it reliable), as well as the first built-in video player (VHS first). GM also had front side airbags and the split and flip-folding third row, neither of which Chrysler did until the 2001 model year. During the 2000s, though, GM let their minivans go, and Chrysler moved past them again and continues that. (I'm looking forward to seeing the new 2008 Chrysler vans in person! )

[BobbyP]

Originally Posted by cdp326

Back at the end of the 1990s, the GM vans were among the better vans before a Honda Odyssey. GM did give us the first power sliding door (though it took them a bit more than half a decade to make it reliable), as well as the first built-in video player (VHS first). GM also had front side airbags and the split and flip-folding third row, neither of which Chrysler did until the 2001 model year. During the 2000s, though, GM let their minivans go, and Chrysler moved past them again and continues that. (I'm looking forward to seeing the new 2008 Chrysler vans in person! )

The Stow-N-Go seating is really great! I haven't drove a 2008 yet. I saw them in LA last week, but I picked a HHR with a sunroof to drive.

What's interesting at National Alamo I saw a bunch of Chrysler products in their new vehicles delivery. With GM cutting back on rental fleet sales, they may be filling the gap with Chrysler products.

[page2171]

Originally Posted by cdp326

(I'm looking forward to seeing the new 2008 Chrysler vans in person! )

I'm looking forward to seeing the 2008 Chrysler vans in person too. I have a 2002 Grand Caravan that I will looking at replacing in a few years when the 2008-09 Chrysler vans are on the used lots at 2 years old.

[boone]

Thanks for the responses. I don't think there's any debate that the Chrysler/Honda/etc. minivans are superior to the Relay and its kin. I guess the question in my mind would be, at what price would you be willing to settle for the Relay instead of buying one of the better vans? The salesperson did say they would make a really good deal on it. Maybe you wouldn't do it for any price.

Right now this is just a theoretical question as I'm not sure I'm willing to give up the better gas mileage of a VUE to get a van.

[BradJK]

Given our 3-5 kids we tote around, the Relay holds it's own.
It does give up a a lot to it's competitors in driving dynamics and
interior packaging. Even lack of power points irritates me.

So the only way we settled for our Relay was 0.9% for 5 years, about a grand off of MSRP, free oil changes for life, and a trade in value on our VTI Vue about 2 grand higher than Toyota was willing to go. We know the Seinna was better in seating, storage and power, but that damn Saturn loyalist in me took over.
Ultimately I think we saved about 4-5 grand over a toyota. Was it worth it,
I think so.
Considering the 07's have standard 3.9L V6 and stability conrol, I think you could pull off a good deal.

However...Not a day goes by that I don't wish I still had our Vue (sans VTI).
It's been the best all around vehicle we've owned. Very good MPG, roomy back seat, above average cargo area. I'll be getting onother in a year or so.
V6 this time though and not the New 08, Too Cute for me.

[myoung]

Get another Vue, or if you have to go bigger get an Outlook, but definitely don't get a Relay. Unless you enjoy brake problems at 20k, of course, in which case I would strongly suggest you purchase the Relay.

[LarkVue]

I traded in my Vue for a Relay and never turned back. I enjoyed the Vue but when we went from two to three kids the transition to a larger vehicle was obvious. All of you who claim all the "problems" with the Relay's don't exist with mine and we have just passed over one year and many miles. My opinion has always been that people don't come to these forums to tout the wonders of their Saturn but to pick on every little thing that exists. You cannot tell me that the other GM versions of the Relay are so much better but in reality are the same frame and structure. I am on vacation and we are driving the Buick version. It is the same EXACT vehicle that we have in our driveway at home.

Would I still buy our Relay. You bet we would. We got a great trade-in deal, outstanding customer service, and a terrific vehicle to boot.

I must be biased because we have had outstanding service from our Saturns. Our first SL1 all the way to our Relay.

[BobbyP]

Originally Posted by LarkVue

I traded in my Vue for a Relay and never turned back. I enjoyed the Vue but when we went from two to three kids the transition to a larger vehicle was obvious. All of you who claim all the "problems" with the Relay's don't exist with mine and we have just passed over one year and many miles. My opinion has always been that people don't come to these forums to tout the wonders of their Saturn but to pick on every little thing that exists. You cannot tell me that the other GM versions of the Relay are so much better but in reality are the same frame and structure. I am on vacation and we are driving the Buick version. It is the same EXACT vehicle that we have in our driveway at home.

Would I still buy our Relay. You bet we would. We got a great trade-in deal, outstanding customer service, and a terrific vehicle to boot.

I must be biased because we have had outstanding service from our Saturns. Our first SL1 all the way to our Relay.

Best of luck with your Relay! Unfortunately there were several Relay owners with severe problems with their vans. I've driven the Chevy version a few times and they fine.

Personally I've never posted a single negative thing about my Saturn VUE. It's been an amazing vehicle also. True most of the negative posts are from people needing help.

I do admit I did post a few negative messages about the upcoming 2008 VUE. Like most Saturn owners we don't like the fact it's being built in Mexico.

[4littlemonkeys]

Originally Posted by LarkVue

All of you who claim all the "problems" with the Relay's don't exist with mine and we have just passed over one year and many miles.

I don't claim "problems" I have problems with my van. I've had MAJOR problems. I had brake failure. I have a door that to this day doesn't always want to close. I have horrible noise in the front that is a loud whistle that is not a normal wind noise that they cannot fix. I've had the side strips replaced more then once. I can't even remember the rest of the stuff.

You are lucky you didn't have problems but some people do. They aren't claiming they have problems. They do have problems. Your tone seems like you are putting down those who have problems. Consider yourself lucky that you don't have problems but don't belittle those that do.

[cdp326]

Originally Posted by erinporch

I don't claim "problems" I have problems with my van. I've had MAJOR problems. I had brake failure. I have a door that to this day doesn't always want to close. I have horrible noise in the front that is a loud whistle that is not a normal wind noise that they cannot fix. I've had the side strips replaced more then once. I can't even remember the rest of the stuff.

You are lucky you didn't have problems but some people do. They aren't claiming they have problems. They do have problems. Your tone seems like you are putting down those who have problems. Consider yourself lucky that you don't have problems but don't belittle those that do.

I don't believe he's saying that people are only claiming problems with the Relay. He's saying that those who seem to say that every Relay has the same problems are mistaken and there are those Relays out there who haven't had problems.

[seankiely]

[QUOTE=erinporch;1032116] I have horrible noise in the front that is a loud whistle that is not a normal wind noise that they cannot fix. I've had the side strips replaced more then once. [QUOTE]


Erin I think I posted on this b4 - as you know I totalled my 05 - BUT I had that exact issue when I bought it - I forced them to take the whole thing apart and it was finally fixed when they replaced the door seals. Prior they had taken off the windshield and resealer it, removed the roof racks a few times in various stages (lol) and removed the OnStar antenna. If you still have this - have them do the door seals, or take them out on the highway at 70 miles per hour on a windy day and let them suffer through that screaming. I feel for you man - I found out about this issue on my 05, about 40KM after I bought it - starting into a 1000KM drive home....GRRR!

I hope this helps, if you want more info (service records etc) email me at sean DOT kiely @ gmail.com

Sean

[4littlemonkeys]

[QUOTE=seankiely;1032784]

Originally Posted by erinporch

Erin I think I posted on this b4 - as you know I totalled my 05 - BUT I had that exact issue when I bought it - I forced them to take the whole thing apart and it was finally fixed when they replaced the door seals. Prior they had taken off the windshield and resealer it, removed the roof racks a few times in various stages (lol) and removed the OnStar antenna. If you still have this - have them do the door seals, or take them out on the highway at 70 miles per hour on a windy day and let them suffer through that screaming. I feel for you man - I found out about this issue on my 05, about 40KM after I bought it - starting into a 1000KM drive home....GRRR!

I hope this helps, if you want more info (service records etc) email me at sean DOT kiely @ gmail.com

Sean

Oh I give up on it. I had it in the shop again this week because the trim started peeling off again. I had it in the shop about 2 months ago for that noise. I don't know what they did but at first I thought it was fixed but of course...it's not fixed. I told them to deal with the seals around the door. They pretty much told me that unless there's a tech bulletin they can't really do anything. So they found some bulletin and did something but I'm not even sure what they did but it still isn't fixed.

I give up. I don't know what more to do except to swear off Saturns.

I graduate school the summer of 2008 and will be replacing my Saturn with something other then a Saturn by the end of 2008 early 2009.

I did tell them about the door seals whether or not they actually listened...I don't know because the last time it was a MAJOR fight to get them to do something.

[4littlemonkeys]

Originally Posted by cdp326

I don't believe he's saying that people are only claiming problems with the Relay. He's saying that those who seem to say that every Relay has the same problems are mistaken and there are those Relays out there who haven't had problems.

I took the post as very snotty. With quoting problems makes it sound like he/she is suggesting that nothing is really wrong. Well sure there are some good Relays out there. I think everyone would admit that. There are also a boat load of Relays that are horrible. So I can claim "problems" but they are real. Lucky the person who didn't have issues but many of us did and continue to have issues.

I don't remember anyone here ever saying that EVERY Relay had the same problems though it has been mentioned that some problems are common with the Relay.