Car Died, Please help

[SIYAM]

Ok... coming out of Irwindale speedway tonight, my car started fine, and ran ok. I was in second gear making a left turn out of the track, and my car just died. I was pushing the gas... at low RPM and low if any boost. All the lights came on and I coasted to a stop... everything dead.

Car wouldn't start, after. The engine turns and everything... I can smell fuel, and when I pulled the plug wire, I saw it arch. Something isn't kicking though... and the car died completely. I just got it home from the tow... and it just won't start. All the PCM/DIS fuses are ok.. coil pack plugs are fine... spark plug wires on there. I can "hear" the fuel pump come up when I click over the ignition... but it will just crank forever.

I checked the wiring as best I could... electrical systems are just not my thing, though. I *think* its something to do with electronics... as I didn't hear any bad noises or anytning mechanical go bad... just smoothly and slowly died. The headlights are bright... so the bat. doesn't seem dead. I'm praying it is nothing mechanical.. praying.

Fred had suggested that it could be my crank position sensor. I know it's a wild shot in the dark.. but I'm really in a jam here. It's my only car, and I was supposed to be driving 450 miles to my home for the summer this weekend, not to mention work tomorrow. I really feel pretty crappy 'bout the whole thing... but I'm trying hard not to get discouraged here.

The only other thing I will say is that after I did my clutch, and re-installed everything, the car didn't want to start, either. I charged it over night... but it still didn't start. Then I finally got it to start by jumping it. It has gone the last 700 miles of daily driving with no problems... starting was kinda slow before... but it just died all of a sudden this time. Oh boy...

If anyone has any ideas... anything, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks guys!

Ian

[VentureForth]

You may want to check the compression in the cylinders...

[OhioVueBoy]

I also am willing to put money on the crank sensor being bad.
~D.J.~

[Qlara]

Possibly it's the Fuel pump too, but the crank sensor is also a very high suspect.

We/You never know, best just tow it back to dealer have them do diagnosis.

[ssicarman]

If you get spark then the crank sensor is good as is the ignition module. If you can smell fuel then the fuel pump is likely giving the system presure and the injecters are working. Hows the oil level?:o: I ask because ..... pull the valve cover to see if the top end of the engine is spinning with the bottom end. Possible broken timing chain or siezed cam(s) or jumped timing chain? When the engine is cranking does it sound like it wants to fire or does it seem like it's spining faster than it should? Like Ventureforth says check the compression. Check ALL of the fuses.

[SIYAM]

I got it to start tonight by replacing the plugs/wires, then jumping it and cranking for a long ass time. I got on the road... btw it idled fine for 10 minutes. Coming out of my driveway, it ran ok... shifted, then died completely. Same exact thing as last night. It won't start now.

I'm lost.

Ian

[SIYAM]

Sorry... won't let me edit.

I'm goin' crazy right now... I'm so hozed guys.

Yes, my car is boosted, but has been running perfectly, even boosted, for 5 months.

Let me explain more closely: I am in second gear, light on the gas and all of a sudden the pedal had NO response whatsoever.... the engine was turning.

In fact, when I got it to run tonight... it idled fine After 30-60 seconds of sounding Horrid.... and smoking like crazy. I think the cylinders were all flooded.

I pulled the plugs, cranked and cleared it of the extra fuel. Definetely fuel, definetely arching on all the wires. The car feels like it "almost" wants to start... but just won't fire up. Oh yeah, plugs are new.

No wierd mechanical noises at all when it goes dead... which it does after 300 ft of drving. It has done it twice now.

I'm really sorry... I'm rambling... cuz I'm really scared. I realize I don't know what I'm doing... but am trying to learn. Havin' a hard time thinkin' straight right now though... and am afraid the sat. techs are gonna laugh at me if I try to get help at the dealership. Oh boy.... so, I'm only 18... you guys are older... and more wise, right? Suggestions, then?

Thanks so much, wish me luck!

Ian

[dohc 97]

If your car is a 95 or earlier, you may be able to use a paper clip to read trouble codes -- see a Chilton or Haynes manual for instructions. Your least expensive approach is to get an accurate diagnosis. Then, don't authorize repairs that you can do yourself.

[ssicarman]

Ok so now you're pretty well 100% looking at electrical problems. Theses can be tough to trace down. Does it idle forever and a day while not driving? As in does it only die when you drive? If so then try and figure out when you drive it does it die when you do a certain thing (ie shift??) or go a certain distance? You'll have to look for loose connections or chaffed wiring harnesses. Poor connections. I think though that if you can figure out if there is a consistant point at which it dies you'll be better able to trace the problem down. Keep us posted with anything that you find.

[SIYAM]

Ok... this is getting bad.

I had it towed to the dealer. One of my extra injectors in the intake pipe had broken and was dumping huge volumes of fuel into the intake pipe. I removed the two extras from the fuel system completely, and they got it to start. I don't know how.

I drove it home w/o the turbo hooked up. It ran ok... just felt really slow. Drove it for 20+ miles, and it started twice when I stopped at a few places on the way home... started fine. Ran a little warm.

Got it home, did a comp. test. 190, 180, 180, 180. 4 months ago, before the turbo, it was 200 accross the board. Clearly, the turbo is taking it's tole. However... an engine really should run on that compression, right? Plus... it ran fine.

I did the FSM oil/ring procedure, and tested it wet. 200-120 psi/per cyl on a wet comp. test. Started the car, and idled fine. Turned it off. Then it wouldn't turn back on. The EXACT same thing as before... just cranked forever, but wouldn't fire!

Some have said blown engine: b/c I guess the DIS goes off compression.... and so it won't spark if it doesn't see compression. If my engine was really that broken... would it have run and idled smoothly?

What should I do?

Ian

[SCDYNE]

status?

[SCDYNE]

My damn proxy server didn't show that last post.

Do an oil change and drop the pan(optional). Run the oil through a strainer to see if there is any metal in it.
Check the metal to see if it's magnetic.
Do you have an inline filter on the turbo oil feed line? If not you may want to inspect it because it could have pumped metal filled oil through the turbo.

good luck,

[SIYAM]

Ok... comp is a *little* low... but boost may have cleared out carbon and whatnot... so it's not that bad.

I'm thinking this, now: Head Gasket.

Smoke... steam, white. Water. Runs too warm. Am I ok to drive on it for a little while? It runs fine... just warm.

Anything else?

Oh yeah... car starts and runs now, it was some ignition stuff. Very wierd things going on. I'm working on just figuring stuff out.

Adam... didn't wanna bug you any more again today. But it's running. I'm gonna pull the head: that will tell me what the pistons/rings look like. Nothing in the oil. Whew... this is all a serious learning experience.

Thanks.

Ian

[ssicarman]

Originally posted by SIYAM
Ok... comp is a *little* low... but boost may have cleared out carbon and whatnot... so it's not that bad.

I'm thinking this, now: Head Gasket.

Smoke... steam, white. Water. Runs too warm. Am I ok to drive on it for a little while? It runs fine... just warm.

Anything else?

Oh yeah... car starts and runs now, it was some ignition stuff. Very wierd things going on. I'm working on just figuring stuff out.

Adam... didn't wanna bug you any more again today. But it's running. I'm gonna pull the head: that will tell me what the pistons/rings look like. Nothing in the oil. Whew... this is all a serious learning experience.

Thanks.

Ian

What smoke steam etc......?????????
I begine to get the feeling that we're getting bit and pieces of story and not in the right order or all of it. Just what is going now or all along or what?

The compression numbers that you posted before are fine. Nothing wrong with thoses numbers.


"One of my extra injectors in the intake pipe had broken and was dumping huge volumes of fuel into the intake pipe. I removed the two extras from the fuel system completely, and they got it to start."

You most likely have an enormous amount of fuel in the engine oil.
Do an oil change, filter and oil.


"b/c I guess the DIS goes off compression"


What year are you running? Not that it really matters because the ignition system only uses the the number four cylinder to measure for misfires, not to fire the spark. The crank sensor is used to give the initial spark fire. The compression sensing system on the number four cylinder is used to help the igniton system/PCM control the spark and timing and injection. It should not affect the ability of the engine to start. If the oil is full of fuel this could cause starting problems.

[SIYAM]

I'm sorry man... I'm not trying to give you just part of the story or anything.. I more than anyone want this to be fixed. I appreciate your guys' help more than you know.

Ok, I will do an oil change right away.

Before, with the turbo, it would smoke a little when I turned the car on, then dissapear as the car warmed up.

It smokes more now.

The extra injectors have been completely removed, as has boost. I'm running n/a for now, until I get the engine fixed. I'm glad those comp. numbers aren't as bad as I was thinking... but they are down a solid 10% since before boost. That to me, meant something. Am I wrong?

Ok: I was worried it wasn't starting b/c if the nubmer four comp. was low... it wouldn't kick over and the DIS would fight to spark over the cyl. with the least resistance. I think the crank pos. sensor is ok b/c I watched it read w/ the tec II. Plus... the c.p.s. goes to the DIS before the PCM, right? Ok... so it starts now, and runs now. Just runs hot, and smokes.

What I'm sorry I didn't make clear (honestly, because I didn't know), was that I think I have/had more than one problem. I am fixing them one at a time. I'm working on the last problem. I'm not sure of any other ways to tell if the head gasket is going/gone. I just know it heats up and liquid comes out the tailpipe.

Again, thanks guys for the help. Any suggestions always appreciated. Things are looking up, slowly.

Ian

[ssicarman]

Water out of the tailpipe is normal, it's a product of good combustion. You won't get water all of the time because as the exhaust heats up the moisture is able to get out of the tail pipe and not show as vapour as much (my theory at least). Are you able to ID the liquid coming out of the tail as water or anti freeze? Give it a quick taste test on the tip of your tongue. No real taste = water and normal. Sweet taste then it's anti freeze and you could have a problem. Is the smoke water vapour or oil smoke or fuel smoke? Colour?
Engine compression numbers--they can differ on any given day due to differenes in how they where taken, by whom, the state of charge of the battery, temperature of engine and/or atmosphere, variables in how the test was done. What you need to look for is the compression in an acceptable range and within acceptable boundries. I think that you are.

Maybe what should be done is to make sure that the car is running properly on the factory original system and then begin to slowly hook up your system and see if it starts to have problems.

One last thing if the smoke out of the tail pipe is oil or anti freeze don't rule out that you may have a problem with the turbo. Bad oil seals or if it is cooled by coolant then you may have a coolant leak from it.

[SIYAM]

Thanks for the help, ssicarman.

Ok... It seems like water coming out of the exaust, but a lot of smoke. It idles and runs ok... as it warms up it smokes less. When it was cold... it smoked alot.

Comp. has remained even today.

Any other ideas?

How can I know for sure if my head gasket is leaking? Oh yeah... and I'm not boosting. The i/c pipes are disconnected, and the extra injectore are completely out of the loop. I'm running n/a stock fuel/spark systems.

Ian