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Old 02-06-2007, 09:59 PM   #1
sl2gold
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Default SLOW Sl2

I'm a little frustrated, my 99 sl2 w/5 spd just doesnt seem all that peppy like I hear many people say. I don't know if it's mechanical or what. It has 53k miles, and I got it last June at 47k miles. I had the TB cleaned and that made a noticeable difference at first, but now the performance (or lack of) seems to be about where it was before I had it cleaned. The guy at the shop said I should change the spark plugs which I plan to do next Sunday. I don't know if that would be effecting it.( I read that changing your plugs doens't restore performance, but I don't know if that's true or not). Someone else said I should change the fuel filter because it might be clogged, so I called the Saturn parts dept. at the dealer and the guy said it doesn't need to to be changed until 90k or 100k miles. Any suggestions would be appreciated, I'm not looking to race anybody, I just want it to feel spirited and have some zest to it. It just seems to take too long to rev up to the power band which seems to be about 3500-4000 rpms, but by then it's time to shift if I'm in traffic, and I seem to have to put on too much throttle to get her moving Thanks again.

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Old 02-07-2007, 12:09 AM   #2
Cat Fuzz
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1992 SL2
Default Re: SLOW Sl2

Getting an SES light? Check to make sure the SES light comes on when you first turn the key.

If you are getting an SES light, have the codes read.

Spark plugs can make a big difference if the one in there are worn out or fouled. I've actually seen cars that stopped running because the plugs were bad.

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Old 02-07-2007, 12:54 AM   #3
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Default Re: SLOW Sl2

Well, the first question would what are you used to driving, peppy is a very relative term...

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Old 02-07-2007, 02:03 AM   #4
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Default Re: SLOW Sl2

My 99 SL2 just keeps running better. A few thoughts:

NGK plugs were OEM on my Saturn, and I would recommend them for consistent performance.

How old/clean is your air filter? I just replaced mine and it made a difference.

Is your ECTS the newer brass one? When the old design goes south it can affect performance.

Plugs are a 30,000 miles maintenance item. If they have never been changed, they are overdue.

You may want to add some Techron to a few tanks of gas. I use a product called Fuel Power (FP60) every fill up for over 2 years. I think that may be the one thing that has helped performance the most. When I bought my car it was not very responsive, but now it is running beyond my expectations. I had my fuel filter changed at 90,000 miles. Did not run differently, but gave me peace of mind.

...
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Old 02-07-2007, 10:10 AM   #5
Shaw18 Racing
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Wrench Re: SLOW Sl2

Like Tirer said 30k mile maintenance should be done just to prevent these problems. Check your owners manual it will point you in the right direction. The parts guy at Saturn only Knows parts. If you want to Know more about maintenance then I would suggest talking to the service department at Saturn. They are the ones that work on these cars.

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Old 02-07-2007, 10:55 AM   #6
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Default Re: SLOW Sl2

The other day I was working on a 94' motor that lacked power untill you got to 3500-4000rpm. It was a motor that was rebuilt by the person that I bought it from. I changed everything on the exterior of this motor including the car it was in to fix the problem with no sucsess. My last resort was to pull the timming chain cover to see if the chain was on correctly. After removing the cover the chain looked fine. Just before puting it back together I noticed that the intake camshaft marked with (in) was on the exhaust side, and the exhaust camshaft marked with (ex) was on the intake side. You wouldn't think this motor would run like this but it did. It idled fine, but had terrible power off idle untill you hit 3500-4000rpm then it had good power. I switched the cams to there correct position and it now runs great. I'm not suggesting that this is your problem.(unless you have had some major motor work done) Just thought you might fined it interesting.

...
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Old 02-07-2007, 11:16 AM   #7
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Default Re: SLOW Sl2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaw18 Racing View Post
The other day I was working on a 94' motor that lacked power untill you got to 3500-4000rpm. It was a motor that was rebuilt by the person that I bought it from. I changed everything on the exterior of this motor including the car it was in to fix the problem with no sucsess. My last resort was to pull the timming chain cover to see if the chain was on correctly. After removing the cover the chain looked fine. Just before puting it back together I noticed that the intake camshaft marked with (in) was on the exhaust side, and the exhaust camshaft marked with (ex) was on the intake side. You wouldn't think this motor would run like this but it did. It idled fine, but had terrible power off idle untill you hit 3500-4000rpm then it had good power. I switched the cams to there correct position and it now runs great. I'm not suggesting that this is your problem.(unless you have had some major motor work done) Just thought you might fined it interesting.

Intake cam, exhaust cam... shouldn't matter right?

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Old 02-07-2007, 11:22 AM   #8
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Default Re: SLOW Sl2

The SES light doesnt come on except for a few seconds when you start it, but that's normal as all the lights come on at first. I don't know the maintenance history of the car so I dont know how old the plugs are. I dont even know what kind they are. My friend from work is supposed to show my how to install the new ones with new wires this Sun. Btw, we are installing new NGK coppers, as for the air filter, it's a K&N, which has maybe 4-5k miles on it. Maybe it's time for me to clean it. I hope the cams aren't switched around like the other person was experienceing in the 94 motor. Say, when did Saturn switch to a brass etcs ? Maybe my '99 still has the old junky one.
All far as speed being a matter of opinion, trust me, it isn't zesty. I have to really put my foot into it and wait as it somewhat slowly revs up to about 3500 rpm and thats when it finally wants to get moving. It feels like I have to work the motor more than it wants just to move decently with traffic. I guess on the flip side of this I never have to worry about wheelspin.

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Old 02-07-2007, 11:26 AM   #9
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Default Re: SLOW Sl2

"Intake cam, exhaust cam... shouldn't matter right?"

Yes it does. The lobes are complete opposite of each other and the crankshaft senser will tell the PCM to inject the fuel while the intake valves are closed with the exhaust camshaft on the intake side. also the cams have slightly diffrent lifts to them.


"When did Saturn switch to new etc's?"


Your 99' should have the new one

...
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Last edited by Shaw18 Racing; 02-07-2007 at 11:35 AM..

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Old 02-07-2007, 11:35 AM   #10
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Default Re: SLOW Sl2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaw18 Racing View Post
Intake cam, exhaust cam... shouldn't matter right?

Yes it does. The lobes are complete opposite of each other and the crankshaft senser will tell the PCM to inject the fuel while the intake valves are closed with the exhaust camshaft on the intake side. also the cams have slightly diffrent lifts to them.

I WAS joking, they just don't have a good laugh smiley here.

It is hard to believe is still ran, and especially if it ran decent at a certain rev range. I actually wonder if the opposite (in sequence) cylinder was firing off of the waste spark. It seems that would be the cylinder with mixture in it to ignite if the cams were bass ackwards.

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Old 02-07-2007, 12:57 PM   #11
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Default Re: SLOW Sl2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaw18 Racing View Post
The other day I was working on a 94' motor that lacked power untill you got to 3500-4000rpm. It was a motor that was rebuilt by the person that I bought it from. I changed everything on the exterior of this motor including the car it was in to fix the problem with no sucsess. My last resort was to pull the timming chain cover to see if the chain was on correctly. After removing the cover the chain looked fine. Just before puting it back together I noticed that the intake camshaft marked with (in) was on the exhaust side, and the exhaust camshaft marked with (ex) was on the intake side. You wouldn't think this motor would run like this but it did. It idled fine, but had terrible power off idle untill you hit 3500-4000rpm then it had good power. I switched the cams to there correct position and it now runs great. I'm not suggesting that this is your problem.(unless you have had some major motor work done) Just thought you might fined it interesting.
sounds like somebody wasn't paying much attention when they rebuilt their engine. it's funny because now i know i'm not the only one that does dumb **** like that...


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Old 02-07-2007, 12:57 PM   #12
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Default Re: SLOW Sl2

Quote:
Originally Posted by sl2gold View Post
All far as speed being a matter of opinion, trust me, it isn't zesty. I have to really put my foot into it and wait as it somewhat slowly revs up to about 3500 rpm and thats when it finally wants to get moving. It feels like I have to work the motor more than it wants just to move decently with traffic. I guess on the flip side of this I never have to worry about wheelspin.
My SC2 feels like a completely different car once it hits 4000RPM. It's a 4 cylinder, you have to get it wound up before you start feeling the torque. It's not exactly slow in the low RPMs, but comparing the torque at 2000RPM with 4000RPM will make it seem that way. Without driving the car, it's hard to tell, but it doesn't sound to me like there is anything wrong with it. It doesn't hurt the engine to run higher into the RPM range.

If you need more power, let it run up to 6500, the red line is there for a reason. If you want great gas mileage, shift early, but if you want power, shift late. There could be something wrong, but it sounds to me like it's an expectation issue.

...
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1993 SL2 100,406 miles ('94-'98)
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Old 02-07-2007, 05:52 PM   #13
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Default Re: SLOW Sl2

I didn't redline my 98 SL2 until I'd owned for over 2 years. What a difference. I have 130K miles now (all mine) and it seems to just get better with age. I've never driven an automatic Saturn but it has to be kind of disappointing compared to the manual.

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Old 02-07-2007, 07:26 PM   #14
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Default Re: SLOW Sl2

Somewhere in the Mods section, there's a thread about putting an extra intake cam on the exhaust side (or else vice-versa), to acutally gain power. But that requires two of the same cam (forgetting which...), not swapping them. So I can imagine this allowing the car to start, but run like cr@p.

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Old 02-07-2007, 07:34 PM   #15
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Happy Re: SLOW Sl2

Quote:
Originally Posted by bender View Post
I didn't redline my 98 SL2 until I'd owned for over 2 years. What a difference. I have 130K miles now (all mine) and it seems to just get better with age. I've never driven an automatic Saturn but it has to be kind of disappointing compared to the manual.

Well i like the auto, IMO i think is smooth shifting - as in you can not feel it shift, The auto with the Sl1 is "peppy" But any shifting under 3000 RPM is slow, So i keep up on the oil, and keep it toped off, and let er rev lol. on a norm day i am shifting at or around 4000Rpms..(in pref mode so I'm not flooring it) only a couple of times i red lined it, but that was trying to pass in 4 lanes, and one time a just pure stupidly lol. Almost like it that the 1.9 SOHC will not got any farther in to the red line then 5900RPMs. I also have 130K well 128,976 miles...

...
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Old 02-07-2007, 09:31 PM   #16
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Default Re: SLOW Sl2

Maybe 99Blacktop has a point, the car does seem to "suddenly' wake up at about 4000 rpm when it was previously a little sleepy. After 4000 rpm, it quickly revs to 5000 and you can feel it starting to pull. If that's normal, then I guess I just need to get used to it. I guess I thought it would be little more torquey, that's all, especially since it's rated at 122 ft. lbs which is more than a Civic Ex which in '99 had about 109 ft. lbs if I'm not mistaken. Well, later this year, I hope to get an intake and upgrade the exhaust for a little more low end grunt. I think that's what I'm after and my lil gold Saturn might be more of a top end car. Any more thoughts?

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Old 02-07-2007, 10:14 PM   #17
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Default Re: SLOW Sl2

I believe the brass ECTS came out in 2001. Not that it is your problem, but the old design has a high failure rate. May be something to take care of in future.

I am beginning to understand what you are saying. I had a 1993 Sentra before purchasing my Saturn. Too me, it would run circles around the Saturn, say, if I wanted to get out of the way in a hurry. It had a 1.6 liter motor, about 108 hp, but variable valve timing. I think the VVT made the difference. My Saturn, has better low end torque, but seems to wind up slower until it hits the sweet spot. The Sentra seemed to get to the sweat spot faster, or just move like a bat out of hell quicker compared to my Saturn. This is my subjective experience. The Sentra also seemed more refined at highway speeds. I drive my Saturn like an old man (getting there quickly). The Sentra would not get out of the way unless you floored it, so it encouraged spirited driving. My Saturn has better low end torque and has a different feel about it then the variable valve engines. With the Saturn I have enough power without kicking in the passing gear. I rarely rev it. The Sentra asked to be revved, and just seemed to run better when driven that way.

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Old 02-08-2007, 04:15 PM   #18
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Default Re: SLOW Sl2

Yeah Tiger, I think you kind of hit the nail on the head, I had an old Jetta DOHC 16v with 123hp/120 tq. that would fly off the line and keep going if you wanted to. My Saturn revs kind of slowly until the sweet spot then suddenly jumps when it finally hits about 4000 rpm, like turbo lag or something. I think what I'm looking for is a way to get it to rev up or wind up faster to get to it's powerband, especially being a 5-speed. I think there's some more low end in there somewhere, I just may need to do a little more maintenace to bring it out. But the car is clean and in good shape so it may be easier to eventually narrow it down.

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Old 02-08-2007, 07:05 PM   #19
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Default Re: SLOW Sl2

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Yeah Tiger, I think you kind of hit the nail on the head, I had an old Jetta DOHC 16v with 123hp/120 tq. that would fly off the line and keep going if you wanted to. My Saturn revs kind of slowly until the sweet spot then suddenly jumps when it finally hits about 4000 rpm, like turbo lag or something.
Yeah, you can feel the power kick in at 4000rpm, but most of the time mine shifts after that, I drive with a lead-foot, LOL. And mine is an automatic, and I think the Saturn automatics aren't bad....I have been in some slow automatics. Even before 4000rpm, it feels peppy for the most part if nothing is wrong, but I apply the accelerator hard majority of the time.

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Old 02-08-2007, 09:06 PM   #20
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Yeah, you can feel the power kick in at 4000rpm, but most of the time mine shifts after that, I drive with a lead-foot, LOL. And mine is an automatic, and I think the Saturn automatics aren't bad....I have been in some slow automatics. Even before 4000rpm, it feels peppy for the most part if nothing is wrong, but I apply the accelerator hard majority of the time.
Rock on!!

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