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Old 11-22-2006, 09:50 AM   #1
DeMAN
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Question Will GM be able to sell the outlook in the >$32k market

I like the look on the Outlook but will GM be able to sell a Saturn in volume in a $32-$36k price range?

I'm sure this is a fine SUV, but I don't see Saturn being able to move in the Mid-level price range market just yet. Price may end up being Outlooks worst enemy.

I hope GM don't try to blame this price on high health insurance and pension cost.

The 2007 Hyundai Santa Fe is priced from say $22k-30K loaded out.
You will also be able to get some kind of a deal on these prices where that price would be $20k-28K.

Hyundai is now being mentioned in the company of Lexus when it comes to quality. Thats high mark from a company thats used to sell junk new cars.

I hope I'm wrong but I think that Saturn will have to get its name back before being able to sell in the Mid-level SUV market.

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Old 11-22-2006, 10:37 AM   #2
hedges1
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Default Re: Will GM be able to sell the outlook in the >$32k market

I've test driven the new sante fe. If you pay close attention to detail you can see why it's as cheap as it is. The outlook is going to suprise a lot of folks and is priced competitively against it's real competition. I don't understand why people have such a problem with Saturn trying to redefine itself. Great product is the key and the Outlook by all accounts is a great product. Combine the outlook with the sky, and aura.....I'd say Saturn is well on their way.

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Old 11-22-2006, 10:45 AM   #3
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Default Re: Will GM be able to sell the outlook in the >$32k market

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeMAN
I like the look on the Outlook but will GM be able to sell a Saturn in volume in a $32-$36k price range?

I'm sure this is a fine SUV, but I don't see Saturn being able to move in the Mid-level price range market just yet. Price may end up being Outlooks worst enemy.

I hope GM don't try to blame this price on high health insurance and pension cost.

The 2007 Hyundai Santa Fe is priced from say $22k-30K loaded out.
You will also be able to get some kind of a deal on these prices where that price would be $20k-28K.

Hyundai is now being mentioned in the company of Lexus when it comes to quality. Thats high mark from a company thats used to sell junk new cars.

I hope I'm wrong but I think that Saturn will have to get its name back before being able to sell in the Mid-level SUV market.
The Santa Fe is nowhere near the size of the Outlook.

The Outlook is:
- 12.6" longer in wheelbase
- 16.6" longer in length
- 3.8" wider
- 2" taller
- 900lbs heavier

Yet still gets better fuel economy and has more power.

Compare

...
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Old 11-22-2006, 11:11 AM   #4
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Default Re: Will GM be able to sell the outlook in the >$32k market

I have the same concern, but the Lambdas do have a feature unique to them in this class that is important to some users:

The minivan-style seating package, and specifically the captain's chairs (and a pass through) in the second row with significant storage space behind the third row. This is important to me because I have 3 kids of car seat age. Installing and removing car seats is not anything you want to do on a regular basis to get access to the third row. With the pass through, the oldest child can simply walk through to the back row & strap themselves in.

I would postulate that minivans offer this seating package for the reason that it is very family-friendly. Also, in the Lambdas, as with most long minivans, there is some significant storage space behind the third row.

This combination is available in Minivans and Suburbans and other very large SUVs (not the Tahoe, though - with the third row seat there isn't much storage), but no other crossover.*

If one needed the minivan seating package, but wanted to avoid the mommyvan stigma, one used to just buy the Suburban. With gas prices the way they are, though (and the 'Burbans aren't exactly inexpensive), the crossover is becoming the contemporary alternative for those who do not need the towing capability of the body-on-frame style vehicle.

I know this exact configuration will not be important to all (or even most) people, but for those to whom it is, there is not much other choice, and the price, while higher than I like, is not totally out of the ball park. Now with that said, if the NVH, driving dynamics and interior materials are subpar, I will not buy one anyway (I'll suck it up & get that dreaded minivan). Initial reports, though, seem to indicate that the General has done well with this one. The proof, for me, will be in the test drive (where I will drive it back to back with an AWD Sienna – I like the AWD for snow & ice but will rarely take either vehicle camping & where we do camp the roads are usually not anything an AWD minivan couldn’t handle).

* I think this will change in the near future, but as of now, the Lambdas are a class of one (ok, 3). Perhaps by the time the others get to the marketplace the Lambdas will be established and have garnered a following (it worked for Chrysler - they still sell a bunch of minivans by having gotten there first).

By the way, vehicles that don't offer this package include: Pilot, Highlander, Murano, Santa Fe, MDX, Edge, CX-7, CX-9, Tribeca – also, you can’t get it on an Explorer, Cherokee, X-terra or 4 Runner either ... (The Pacifica is availabe with second -row captain's chairs, but not without the console between them - you can't even order the thing without it & I don't want my kid crawling over a console any more than I want him crawling over the back of a seat. Also, with the 3rd row, you loose the storage area).

Last edited by ffballid; 11-22-2006 at 11:20 AM..

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Old 11-22-2006, 11:47 AM   #5
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Default Re: Will GM be able to sell the outlook in the >$32k market

ffbalid,

Our family is in exactly the same boat with the 7 seat configuration. I just don't think people realize how different this vehicle is that just about anything out there, and I have seen inside of one. I was shocked at the quality level.

The only downside is that you can't get an outlook with captains chairs and get cloth interior, you have to upgrade it to leather. That sux.

I know the Acadia website APPEARS to say that you can get cloth seating and captains chairs but I'm not holding my breath.

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Old 11-22-2006, 11:58 AM   #6
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Default Re: Will GM be able to sell the outlook in the >$32k market

Sounds like it will be priced between a Pilot/Highlander and an MDX/RX350. That may be a good thing. Still too much for me, though.

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Old 11-22-2006, 12:05 PM   #7
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Default Re: Will GM be able to sell the outlook in the >$32k market

Quote:
Originally Posted by hedges1
ffbalid,

Our family is in exactly the same boat with the 7 seat configuration. I just don't think people realize how different this vehicle is that just about anything out there, and I have seen inside of one. I was shocked at the quality level.

The only downside is that you can't get an outlook with captains chairs and get cloth interior, you have to upgrade it to leather. That sux.

I know the Acadia website APPEARS to say that you can get cloth seating and captains chairs but I'm not holding my breath.
Why would you want to mix cloth with children?
Leather is much easier to clean.

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Old 11-22-2006, 12:24 PM   #8
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Default Re: Will GM be able to sell the outlook in the >$32k market

Quote:
Originally Posted by K-1
The Santa Fe is nowhere near the size of the Outlook.

The Outlook is:
- 12.6" longer in wheelbase
- 16.6" longer in length
- 3.8" wider
- 2" taller
- 900lbs heavier

Yet still gets better fuel economy and has more power.

Compare
Size wise, you are right. But price is what will be the biggest problem for Saturn, size. The Santa Fe compares more to the VUE. Will the buying public be willing to pay >32k for any Saturn?
Hyundai has done a good job in getting there name back. I hope for the same or better future for Saturn.

Saturn is not one of first vehicle that people would think of at this point. Price plays a big part at getting people back. Quality will keep those same people and more coming to Saturn.
I hope I will be able to come back in a year from now and say WOW about the Outlook sales volume.

Acadia will more than likely be the sales leader out of this group.

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Last edited by DeMAN; 11-22-2006 at 12:32 PM..

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Old 11-22-2006, 12:29 PM   #9
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Default Re: Will GM be able to sell the outlook in the >$32k market

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeMAN
Size wise, you are right. But price is what will be the biggest problem for Saturn, size. The Santa Fe compares more to the VUE. Will the buying public be willing to pay >32k for any Saturn?

Hyundai has done a good job in getting there name back. I hope for the same or better future for Saturn.

Saturn is not one of first vehicle that people would think of at this point. Price plays a big part at getting people back. Quality will keep those same people and more coming to Saturn.

I hope I will be able to come back in a year from now and say WOW about the Outlook sales volume.

Acadia will more than likely be the sales leader out of this group.
Look at the prices on a bang-for-buck level and the Outlook trounces the Santa Fe.

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Old 11-22-2006, 12:44 PM   #10
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Default Re: Will GM be able to sell the outlook in the >$32k market

Quote:
Originally Posted by uboys
Why would you want to mix cloth with children?
Leather is much easier to clean.

O, I agree that leather is nicer for kids & I would probably get leather anyway. The problem is the price swing for people who may already be streaching to get into this vechicle. If you want the 7 seat configuration (& see my post above to see why I do), you have to pony up not only the $500 for the captain's chairs, but you must also buy the leather package. This means that if you want the 7 seater, you have to count on $1,770 in extra cost. While as I said above, this 7 seat configuration is not available on any other comperable vehicle, this cost might be enough to push someone who was also considering a minivan back into the minivan camp.

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Old 11-22-2006, 03:21 PM   #11
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Default Re: Will GM be able to sell the outlook in the >$32k market

We're not fans of leather. Especially in Texas (HOT!). Plus, most of the new cloth interiors are made of much more durable materials than what you may be thinkign about. Our Jeep liberty interior is incredibly tough and after 100,000 miles still looks great, as opposed to the lower grade leathers that start to crack and look bad. I know several of the new Chrysler products have the Yes Essentials interiors that are stain and odor resistant. Something like that would be great.

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Old 11-22-2006, 04:31 PM   #12
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Default Re: Will GM be able to sell the outlook in the >$32k market

I too want a seven passenger with cloth seats. I hate leather seats (opposite to Texas, I find them to cold for Ottawa, ON. I really get upset when a manufacturer tells me that I can't have what I want (kind of like you can't get there from here) for no reason other than they can make more money by forcing me to "upgrade" to something I don't want. I will cross shop the AWD Toyota Sienna with the AWD Outlook. By the way, I also need a vehicle that will tow a 18 foot travel trailer (very light weight Taylor Coach made just outside of Hamilton, ON) that I have towed with a Dodge Grand Caravan and my current 2002 Toyota Sienna. At the present moment I truly believe the Outlook is what I want but I will hold firm on the 7 passenger cloth seats. Maybe I will have to wait to 2008.
One other point while I have your attention. I tend to keep vehicles for at least 5 years and if I am truly happy with a vehicle, I will keep it much longer than that. For example, I kept a Honda Accord for 19 years. Would I be foolhardy to expect a Saturn Outlook to give me 10 years of reliable service. Obviously, my experience with GM cars is somewhat limited, my last being a 1978 Chevy Malibu Stn Wgn with a 350 V8. Now that was a car but unfortunately I had to sell it after 3 years as I was leaving the country and couldn't take it with me.

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Old 11-22-2006, 04:53 PM   #13
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Default Re: Will GM be able to sell the outlook in the >$32k market

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeMAN
Size wise, you are right. But price is what will be the biggest problem for Saturn, size. The Santa Fe compares more to the VUE. Will the buying public be willing to pay >32k for any Saturn?
Hyundai has done a good job in getting there name back. I hope for the same or better future for Saturn.

Saturn is not one of first vehicle that people would think of at this point. Price plays a big part at getting people back. Quality will keep those same people and more coming to Saturn.
I hope I will be able to come back in a year from now and say WOW about the Outlook sales volume.

Acadia will more than likely be the sales leader out of this group.
I have thought about the price and to me if GM can make a car such as the Aura as nice and refined and quite as it is I would think they are right to charge about 10K more for a comprable AWD 8 seater loaded. I know it's pricey but I think it's the midlevel that we will sell more of 29-33 and not so much the 42. I am just excited to get em and sell em

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Old 11-22-2006, 05:38 PM   #14
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Default Re: Will GM be able to sell the outlook in the >$32k market

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Originally Posted by SKYGUY10066


I have thought about the price and to me if GM can make a car such as the Aura as nice and refined and quite as it is I would think they are right to charge about 10K more for a comprable AWD 8 seater loaded. I know it's pricey but I think it's the midlevel that we will sell more of 29-33 and not so much the 42. I am just excited to get em and sell em

Not to belittle Saturn, but again this will be a new area for Saturn to be in that price range.

GM has scare off many potential buyers by pricing some of there car where american, are not willing to spend for that car. Resale value has alot to do with that. People are not willing to pay $30K+ for a car that the may have to pass off to there grandkids to keep from being upside down in the vehicle.

People flip vehicles every 24-36 mos. Some are force to stay in a vehicle longer because of its resale value. Resale value is going to be key in the Outlook sales and american willing to pay >$30k for a Saturn brand vehicle.

I mentioned Hyundai earlier about how they had been look at as a quality brand, but know one will spend $30k for one period.

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Old 11-22-2006, 09:04 PM   #15
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Default Re: Will GM be able to sell the outlook in the >$32k market

I think the average american consumer just wants a great product. If it really is a great product then the resale market will reflect that too.

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Old 11-22-2006, 11:36 PM   #16
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Default Re: Will GM be able to sell the outlook in the >$32k market

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeMAN
Not to belittle Saturn, but again this will be a new area for Saturn to be in that price range.

GM has scare off many potential buyers by pricing some of there car where american, are not willing to spend for that car. Resale value has alot to do with that. People are not willing to pay $30K+ for a car that the may have to pass off to there grandkids to keep from being upside down in the vehicle.

People flip vehicles every 24-36 mos. Some are force to stay in a vehicle longer because of its resale value. Resale value is going to be key in the Outlook sales and american willing to pay >$30k for a Saturn brand vehicle.

I mentioned Hyundai earlier about how they had been look at as a quality brand, but know one will spend $30k for one period.
In which country?
Most people keep their cars to term--5 years or longer.
People who flip cars every 2 to 3 years and complain about depreciation are not wise.
That is crazy stuff.

The only people who "flip" cars every 2 to 3 years are the people who are too poor to buy a car--so they have to lease it to get the lower payments.

Cars are made to last a long time, and most people make good use of that time.
You lose quite a lot of money if you flip over and over again--and it has nothing to do with "resale value".
The original owner takes the first depreciation hit, which diminishes with time.
There is no reason on earth to buy a new car every two years except to make a fashion statement.
Mind you, that is a very expensive fashion statement.

Besides, anybody who complains about resale value would not seriously consider a Hyundai.

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Old 11-23-2006, 07:50 AM   #17
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Default Re: Will GM be able to sell the outlook in the >$32k market

Quote:
Originally Posted by uboys
In which country?
Most people keep their cars to term--5 years or longer.
People who flip cars every 2 to 3 years and complain about depreciation are not wise.
That is crazy stuff.

The only people who "flip" cars every 2 to 3 years are the people who are too poor to buy a car--so they have to lease it to get the lower payments.

Cars are made to last a long time, and most people make good use of that time.
You lose quite a lot of money if you flip over and over again--and it has nothing to do with "resale value".
The original owner takes the first depreciation hit, which diminishes with time.
There is no reason on earth to buy a new car every two years except to make a fashion statement.
Mind you, that is a very expensive fashion statement.

Besides, anybody who complains about resale value would not seriously consider a Hyundai.
I used the word "flip" because its the fashion word right now. I have 3 cars and part owner of a fourth car of which 3 of the four are >8.5 years old. My 95SC2 is almost 12 years old in which we bought brand new. It will be making an 800+ mile trip across Texas on Sunday
One of the four cars is an 06 Acura TL. I had an 04 TL with almost 40k miles for approx. 22 mos of which I had already started to build equity. I didn't put any money down on the the 04 when it was new. I picked up the 06 mainly because my 04 was getting close to being out of warranty (4/50K miles) for no money down and a lower payment. I'm buying and not leasing. Resale value does help those who lease. The higher the resale, the lower the monthly payments. I plan to give the Outlook a serious look and probable will buy base on the information thus far.

I still will ask the primary question again. Are people willing to pay >$30K for the SATURN? Thats the bottom line. I truely hope so or this will be another vehicle that GM won't be able to sell. If the Outlook were a Toyota, Honda, or Nissan, the answer would be YES to my primary question.

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Old 11-23-2006, 08:08 AM   #18
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Default Re: Will GM be able to sell the outlook in the >$32k market

There are two price ranges for these SUV's. Hyundai / Kia / Suzuki (etc) are doing size per dollar. The traditional imports play upscale (around $30K). There has traditionally been more volume at those higher price points. The Honda Pilot costs the same, the Toyota costs much more and even the Murano costs more and it doesn't have a third row. Gm is being good with their branding on this one... Let Chevy take on Hyundai at the opening price points and let Saturn take on the higher end imports.

Priced as good or better, FAR better looking than the Pilot or Highlander (inside AND out), and a powertrain as good as anyone's? WOW! Way to go Saturn! We will own this SUV when my wife's lease ends! You could have put on an Acura badge and I would have believed it!

Your question about Saturn: If they give a better dealer experience, offer a better vehicle, and it is priced as good or better, Saturn will be fine. Look at the 300C from Chrysler. It was a very good engine in a pretty good car, looked better (at least different), and people flocked to the dealerships (over 300K). Remember, no one was paying $35K for a Chrysler before that car either. The Outlook probably competes even better against the competition and the dealer experience will clearly be better. The thing is that GM needs is a brand that is upscale from Chevy and Pontiac. Buick is traditional American. The only way to get the imports is if Saturn builds vehicles that are right and prices them at the same levels. A brand's image doesn't change overnight. However, the Outlook and Sky sure are good starts. I think this SUV is good enough to have people reach for their wallets.

Last edited by sixsigma; 11-23-2006 at 08:23 AM..

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Old 11-24-2006, 08:28 AM   #19
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Default Re: Will GM be able to sell the outlook in the >$32k market

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeMAN
Not to belittle Saturn, but again this will be a new area for Saturn to be in that price range.

GM has scare off many potential buyers by pricing some of there car where american, are not willing to spend for that car. Resale value has alot to do with that. People are not willing to pay $30K+ for a car that the may have to pass off to there grandkids to keep from being upside down in the vehicle.

People flip vehicles every 24-36 mos. Some are force to stay in a vehicle longer because of its resale value. Resale value is going to be key in the Outlook sales and american willing to pay >$30k for a Saturn brand vehicle.

I mentioned Hyundai earlier about how they had been look at as a quality brand, but know one will spend $30k for one period.
I appreciate your viewpoint. Here in MI many people choose to lease and the ones that don't here in this general area put down a large sum of $$. That being said it really will come down to what the vehicle offers for the money, and so far I personally have sold 6 from order even with the mid 600 dollar payment
It's all relative, eveyone is a payment shopper be it a caddy, bentley or a kia. As long as you get what you want.
My last comment is people do keep their vehicles for longer than 2-3 years, I am pretty sure the national average is something like 6 years, so that depreciation point is kind of mute for the masses.

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Old 11-24-2006, 05:43 PM   #20
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$30,000 for a Saturn? I think when people think of Saturn they think of the beloved "S" Series Cars! The "S" Series was a Great Price and a Great Car! Mine has over 182,000 miles and is still running! I wouldn't buy a $30,000 Saturn! Sorry Saturn, you won't be selling alot of $30,000 Cars!

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