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Old 10-25-2006, 09:05 PM   #21
MJD1001
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Default Re: outlook prices announced

Quote:
Originally Posted by KenSatrun
Okay....I go to Chevy's site and a fully loaded Tahoe is over $53k. Seems pretty darn rich to me! Is that what everyone is going to shop an Outlook against? Did everyone plan on buying a fully loaded AWD Outlook with HID headlamps, Navigation and DVD, dual sunroof, etc?

I'd get an XR FWD, add in leather and advanced audio, and I've got a very nice vehicle for $32,370. It's certainly better than a loaded Relay 3 at $31k, especially when I look at all the equipment/options included at this price. Not far from a Pilot EX-L at $31,945 - and I sure as heck think the Outlook looks better than that vehicle. I've seen the inside in person, and it really makes the Pilot seem utilitarian.

Now...what do I get in my Outlook the Pilot doesn't have....
18" wheels vs. the puny 16" on the Honda
A real rear HVAC system
OnStar
Rear Seat Audio
Actual legroom for the third row, and some useful storage behind the 3rd row.

I'm sure I'm missing more that I'll find once I get an Outlook brochure in hand (or the website gets all the specs).

Heck, a loaded Ford Explorer is $43k! Of course they have to put tons of money on them these days.
Another very good point. I don't know how many people I have hears (on these forums or in real life at work when talking about the Outlook) that in the past few day said something like "$43k for a fully loaded outlook?!?! I can get a Tahoe for not much more than that". The problem with that logic is as you stated, they are comparing a fully loaded outlook to a entry level (or just above entry level) Tahoe.

Compare them side to side...a comparably equipped Outlook to a Tahoe...and the Outlook should be $5,000 - $10,000 less (plus get better mileage, and based on the underpinnings, possibly a more refined and smoother ride).

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Old 10-25-2006, 09:05 PM   #22
Njerald
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Default Re: outlook prices announced

Quote:
Originally Posted by KenSatrun
Okay....I go to Chevy's site and a fully loaded Tahoe is over $53k. Seems pretty darn rich to me! Is that what everyone is going to shop an Outlook against? Did everyone plan on buying a fully loaded AWD Outlook with HID headlamps, Navigation and DVD, dual sunroof, etc?

I'd get an XR FWD, add in leather and advanced audio, and I've got a very nice vehicle for $32,370. It's certainly better than a loaded Relay 3 at $31k, especially when I look at all the equipment/options included at this price. Not far from a Pilot EX-L at $31,945 - and I sure as heck think the Outlook looks better than that vehicle. I've seen the inside in person, and it really makes the Pilot seem utilitarian.

Now...what do I get in my Outlook the Pilot doesn't have....
18" wheels vs. the puny 16" on the Honda
A real rear HVAC system
OnStar
Rear Seat Audio
Actual legroom for the third row, and some useful storage behind the 3rd row.

I'm sure I'm missing more that I'll find once I get an Outlook brochure in hand (or the website gets all the specs).

Heck, a loaded Ford Explorer is $43k! Of course they have to put tons of money on them these days.
Specs and Features:

http://eogld.ecomm.gm.com/NASApp/dom...age=7&butID=16

http://eogld.ecomm.gm.com/NASApp/dom...age=7&butID=16

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Old 10-26-2006, 12:40 AM   #23
ffballid
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Default Re: outlook prices announced

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJD1001
Another very good point. I don't know how many people I have hears (on these forums or in real life at work when talking about the Outlook) that in the past few day said something like "$43k for a fully loaded outlook?!?! I can get a Tahoe for not much more than that". The problem with that logic is as you stated, they are comparing a fully loaded outlook to a entry level (or just above entry level) Tahoe.

Compare them side to side...a comparably equipped Outlook to a Tahoe...and the Outlook should be $5,000 - $10,000 less (plus get better mileage, and based on the underpinnings, possibly a more refined and smoother ride).
2 things (& if someone knows the answer to 2, Id like to hear it):

1. I do agree that the Tahoe is not an apples to apples comparison. I just included it to show how much they were being discounted. A better comparison is to the Acura MDX. That way you are at least comparing one CUV to another. This is what makes me worry for GM:

An Outlook equipped as close as possible to the base MDX would cost $38,494. I think this is what you'd need:

ITEM COST RUNNING TOTAL
XR AWD $32,290 $32,290
Premium Trim $1,275 $33,565
2nd row captains chairs $495 $34,060
Red Jewel paint $395 $34,455
us8 Audio System $0 $34,455
XM radio $199 $34,654
Convenience Package $1,045 $35,699
Sunroof $1,300 $36,999
Advanced Audio $805 $37,804
Enhanced Convenience $690 $38,494

The comparable Acura retails for right at $40,000.00. This is only a $1,500 difference (IF one pays full retail on the Acura & I expect you could get it at somewhat of a discount). Now, the Outlook's a little larger, has a 6 speed & does not need premium fuel. On the other hand, the Acura's, well, an Acura, and it has some features on it not available on the Saturn as well. Again, the Saturn's nice, but at this price, I (and I think others) will cross shop the Acura, not just a Pilot or Highlander. For the now small price difference, the Acura would (nominally) get the nod from me.

2. That brings me to my second item. Hang with me, There's a question at the end & I need help from a Saturn dealer or someone who knows how this "no haggle" thing works. I really do want to "buy American" this time (I know, I know, it's a global automotive marketplace & economy & GM imports from other countries , too, but despite my post above, I would still prefer to keep the buy from an American-based company). I have been going through option packages & seeing what I can live without to trim cost from the Outlook. As low as I can get is $34,654 (You can see what that includes above). Unfortunately, this is still too much to move the needle for me away from the (in my mind at least) known Honda quality. As I understand it, the Saturn retailer is not going to come off this price. The question, then, is how do trade-ins work? I.e. can I expect to get more than the standard KBB "trade in" value for the vehicle to compensate for the artificially high retail price? (I don't expect dealer retail, but I'd think that private party sale would be about right).

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Old 10-26-2006, 10:03 AM   #24
SKYGUY10066
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Default Re: outlook prices announced

Quote:
Originally Posted by ffballid
2 things (& if someone knows the answer to 2, I’d like to hear it):

1. I do agree that the Tahoe is not an apples to apples comparison. I just included it to show how much they were being discounted. A better comparison is to the Acura MDX. That way you are at least comparing one CUV to another. This is what makes me worry for GM:

An Outlook equipped as close as possible to the base MDX would cost $38,494. I think this is what you'd need:

ITEM COST RUNNING TOTAL
XR AWD $32,290 $32,290
Premium Trim $1,275 $33,565
2nd row captains chairs $495 $34,060
Red Jewel paint $395 $34,455
us8 Audio System $0 $34,455
XM radio $199 $34,654
Convenience Package $1,045 $35,699
Sunroof $1,300 $36,999
Advanced Audio $805 $37,804
Enhanced Convenience $690 $38,494

The comparable Acura retails for right at $40,000.00. This is only a $1,500 difference (IF one pays full retail on the Acura & I expect you could get it at somewhat of a discount). Now, the Outlook's a little larger, has a 6 speed & does not need premium fuel. On the other hand, the Acura's, well, an Acura, and it has some features on it not available on the Saturn as well. Again, the Saturn's nice, but at this price, I (and I think others) will cross shop the Acura, not just a Pilot or Highlander. For the now small price difference, the Acura would (nominally) get the nod from me.

2. That brings me to my second item. Hang with me, There's a question at the end & I need help from a Saturn dealer or someone who knows how this "no haggle" thing works. I really do want to "buy American" this time (I know, I know, it's a global automotive marketplace & economy & GM imports from other countries , too, but despite my post above, I would still prefer to keep the buy from an American-based company). I have been going through option packages & seeing what I can live without to trim cost from the Outlook. As low as I can get is $34,654 (You can see what that includes above). Unfortunately, this is still too much to move the needle for me away from the (in my mind at least) known Honda quality. As I understand it, the Saturn retailer is not going to come off this price. The question, then, is how do trade-ins work? I.e. can I expect to get more than the standard KBB "trade in" value for the vehicle to compensate for the artificially high retail price? (I don't expect dealer retail, but I'd think that private party sale would be about right).
Do you know of Saturn Quality? Saturn always takes the top few spots in customer satisfaction. Acura is a great brand I have owned one years ago but I know of Saturn's satisfaction rates as well.
I am not arguing your point I am just stating mine. The fact is that 80% of what we will sell will more than likely be under 40k and for that $$$ there is a lot of value to be had.
There are alot of people that have to get over the stigma involoved with Saturn...it's not your fathers Saturn. This new wave of product has already proven very successful at taking upscale competitor buisness and at a price that is not a giveaway price either, rather priced just right.
I have my concerns as well regarding the price of this vehicle that is until I went shopping in the motor mall here and was looking at Tahoe's, Envoys and the like, comparably equipped and found that the Outlook is really in the same range. In some cases it is a better value and in others a little more. But in the cases where it is a little more it is a larger vehicle than what I was comparing it too.
All in all I am happy to have another vehicle to put the loyal customers that we have into as their familys expand.
I had a chnce to drive one yesterday that stickered at 43,400 and it had every available option including the extra white paint, I took it over to the Cadillac dealer and a customer there placed a deposit within minutes of seeing it. His SRX stickered at 49K for his V-6 so his in his mind this was a deal....he saved 6 grand he just didn't get the Caddy nameplate. I guess only time will tell if this momentum continues but let me say in closing the dealership in which I work have sold more cars this year than ever before even with the increase in prices and I don't see it slowing down

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Old 10-26-2006, 10:53 AM   #25
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Default Re: outlook prices announced

Quote:
Originally Posted by ffballid

1. I do agree that the Tahoe is not an apples to apples comparison. I just included it to show how much they were being discounted. A better comparison is to the Acura MDX. That way you are at least comparing one CUV to another. This is what makes me worry for GM:

An Outlook equipped as close as possible to the base MDX would cost $38,494. I think this is what you'd need:
I think you're looking at it backwards. If you want to equip an Outlook like an MDX and pay $40 for all the bells and whistles, you can (as you pointed out.) But you can't de-content an Acura to get anywhere near the ~$30K starting price of the Outlook. Acura (and many other companies) take what used to be (and should be) optional stuff and makes it "standard", resulting in vehicles that start at $40. I don't need leather seats, wood trim, 19 cup holders, 500w satellite radios, televisions, butt warmers, etc in my vehicle and shouldn't have to pay extra for them.

While it's a valid comparison, I think they're two completely different target demographics. The person who's driving an Acura (and their ilk) wouldn't dream of being seen in an 'American' car. And likewise vice-versa.

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Old 10-26-2006, 11:40 AM   #26
Njerald
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Default Re: outlook prices announced

Quote:
Originally Posted by ffballid

2. That brings me to my second item. Hang with me, There's a question at the end & I need help from a Saturn dealer or someone who knows how this "no haggle" thing works. I really do want to "buy American" this time (I know, I know, it's a global automotive marketplace & economy & GM imports from other countries , too, but despite my post above, I would still prefer to keep the buy from an American-based company). I have been going through option packages & seeing what I can live without to trim cost from the Outlook. As low as I can get is $34,654 (You can see what that includes above). Unfortunately, this is still too much to move the needle for me away from the (in my mind at least) known Honda quality. As I understand it, the Saturn retailer is not going to come off this price. The question, then, is how do trade-ins work? I.e. can I expect to get more than the standard KBB "trade in" value for the vehicle to compensate for the artificially high retail price? (I don't expect dealer retail, but I'd think that private party sale would be about right).
So buy an Acadia at close to invoice price and you will have more features at the same price as a comparable no-haggle Outlook.

Quality point for the Saturns is BS. The Outlooks are made on the same line as the Acadias.

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Old 10-26-2006, 12:09 PM   #27
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Default Re: outlook prices announced

This is how GM prices Saturns these days, a few grand below the sibs so that the transaction prices will be similar.

I'll get this pricing into my database by tomorrow morning to see how it really compares. The MDX and CX-9 are in there already.

http://www.truedelta.com/prices.php

...
truedelta.com -- need more Saturns!
More useful reliability information -- first info on Aura and Outlook
Price comparisons, quick and thorough

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Old 10-26-2006, 01:57 PM   #28
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Default Re: outlook prices announced

GM is messing up again.

They should've priced the msrp a grand or two below it's primary competitor that's leading, but instead, they priced it at or above. What a dumb move.

At just above $32k msrp for an AWD XR trim, the Honda Pilot EX AWD msrp is under $32k msrp.

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Old 10-26-2006, 01:59 PM   #29
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Default Re: outlook prices announced

I look forward to Karesh showing us an apples to apples comparison. I have trouble interpreting his website price comparisons when I input them myself, but he posts very helpful information on various blogs like this one.

While I do not think I can afford the Outlook, I see a lot of overpriced Highlanders and other vehicles on the road, many of which surely cost around $40k. I think this is a risk for Saturn, but it may payoff. I also can see the next generation minivan (which will also be built on the Outlook platform) being priced in between this vehicle and the Vue.

When I look at this vehicle for myself, it would be to provide a family vehicle that can also haul the occasional lumber, etc. This actually causes me to compare this to a four door pick up. Currently I can get a 2wd Chevy Crew cab with a V-8 for around $21,600 + tax. No, it isn't as loaded as the Saturn and most people will not cross shop these two vehicles, but for me, the truck is the better choice.

My 2 cents.

...
Former Saturn salesperson...love the cars, hated the boss.

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Old 10-26-2006, 02:03 PM   #30
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Default Re: outlook prices announced

Will the GM models have:

Cabin Air Filter?

Aux. audio input jack?

They won't have Bluetooth because of On-Star.

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Old 10-26-2006, 05:24 PM   #31
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Default Re: outlook prices announced

Quote:
Originally Posted by KenSatrun
Now...what do I get in my Outlook the Pilot doesn't have....
18" wheels vs. the puny 16" on the Honda
I'll give you that one

Quote:
Originally Posted by KenSatrun
A real rear HVAC system
As opposed to a fake one? What are you talking about?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KenSatrun
OnStar
That's why I have a cell phone.. I never have understood why someone would pay $16/month for that worthless service. Don't lock your keys in your car, watch your gas gauge and keep your cell phone with you for any emergencies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KenSatrun
Rear Seat Audio
True, but that's only valuable if you frequently have people in the backseat who have different musical tastes than the driver. It's certainly not a general advantage for the average person.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KenSatrun
Actual legroom for the third row, and some useful storage behind the 3rd row.
How often do you load up more than 5 people for a long trip? It could certainly be valuable to a few people with large families that travel a lot, but certainly not a general advantage for the average person.

The real advantage that you forgot to mention is one that goes to the Pilot.. it doesn't depreciate anywhere near as fast as the Outlook (or any other domestic vehicle) will. That is the biggest problem I have with this pricing. I've already seen one and thought "wow, the first Saturn that actually looks like a real vehicle", but I would never pay anything over $30k for it. In a year it would be worth half of what I bought it for

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Old 10-26-2006, 05:26 PM   #32
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Default Re: outlook prices announced

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackwidow
OOOOOHHHH!!! MMMMY!!!! GGGOOOSHHHH!

I was whinning about the Outlook, fiending actually. (Still is.)

However, I simply can not afford the Outlook. My husband and I bought our 2007 Chevy Tahoo for less than 41,000 (fully loaded w/o navigational system) and that is with my grandmother's (retired GM Employee) employee discount and incentives. Plus, I just purchased the Relay 3 fully loaded for under 31,000 (PAID IN FULL, no car loan w/discount). If I trade in the Relay for the Outlook when the it comes out. I still would not be able to afford it.

Well all I can say is give me three years I will be able to purchase the Outlook then. (Because it will be less expensive as a Saturn Certified Used Car.)

The Outlook Is Still My Obsession. I'll get a new one when I grow up.
Sorry, but I have to harp here...
You are complaining about the price of the Outlook, when you paid $31k for a Relay? The Outlook is going to make the Relay look like a complete POS (which, unfortunately, it is). Also, don't complain about not being able to "afford" one, since you just shelled out $72k in new vehicles recently.

For the record, I bought a new 2005 Dodge Grand Caravan last year. It has Stow 'n Go, but was nowhere near fully loaded... It stickered for over $27k. Of course, they had it discounted/rebated to a hair over $21k . But my point of this is that a "base" Outlook is essentially what I have in the Caravan but it seats 1 more, has a lot more power, is a heck of a lot more refined, has the same MPG, and looks a lot cooler too (hey, my wife drives the van). I'd say even though it costs a lot, it's probably right where it should be for the size of the vehicle and it's offerings, and what people will be cross-shopping it too.

If I were looking to buy a new family vehicle with seating for more than 4-5, I'd have to say the Outlook would be #1.

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Old 10-26-2006, 08:11 PM   #33
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Default Re: outlook prices announced

Quote:
Originally Posted by tnpilot
How often do you load up more than 5 people for a long trip? It could certainly be valuable to a few people with large families that travel a lot, but certainly not a general advantage for the average person.
A good starting assumption is that people who are shopping for a 7/8 passenger vehicle need space for that many. If you only need space for 5 or less, buy a smaller vehicle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tnpilot
The real advantage that you forgot to mention is one that goes to the Pilot.. it doesn't depreciate anywhere near as fast as the Outlook (or any other domestic vehicle) will. That is the biggest problem I have with this pricing. I've already seen one and thought "wow, the first Saturn that actually looks like a real vehicle", but I would never pay anything over $30k for it. In a year it would be worth half of what I bought it for
Depreciation is only relevant if you switching vehicles every few years. If you keep a vehicle for a decent amount of time, its final value may not matter that much.

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Old 10-26-2006, 08:36 PM   #34
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Default Re: outlook prices announced

Quote:
Originally Posted by oicu812
A good starting assumption is that people who are shopping for a 7/8 passenger vehicle need space for that many. If you only need space for 5 or less, buy a smaller vehicle.
You definately have that right! This is not a "oh well I just buy the extra seats without a reason for doing so...." This vehicle is for persons who need the more than 5 seats in a traditional CUV. And those shopping for 7/8 passanger CUV's know the cost(s) associated with these vehicles in their high content segment.

Depreciation is only relevant if you switching vehicles every few years. If you keep a vehicle for a decent amount of time, its final value may not matter that much.
On this note I can not refuse the opportunity to say that all of this talk about resale and the like takes no ground to the "wise" shopper who actually purchases a vehicle and owns it for 5-6-even 7 years. With the new GM powertrain warranty and initial quality reports from this powertrain the overall VALUE should be pretty darn good

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Old 10-26-2006, 09:01 PM   #35
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Default Re: outlook prices announced

Quote:
Originally Posted by tnpilot
As opposed to a fake one? What are you talking about?
The Outlook has a separate rear HVAC system in the rear quarter, with vents on the roof and floor. Pilot just ducts air from the front system through the center console.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tnpilot
That's why I have a cell phone.. I never have understood why someone would pay $16/month for that worthless service. Don't lock your keys in your car, watch your gas gauge and keep your cell phone with you for any emergencies.
In my first S-Series, I skipped the ABS and got a sunroof instead! I knew how to apply the brakes without locking them up! Now that I have two kids, I'm going to make sure I've done all I can to protect them. OnStar is just one more item that gives me piece of mind when my wife and kids are off without me in the driver's seat. When they start driving themselves, it will be even more important!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tnpilot
True, but that's only valuable if you frequently have people in the backseat who have different musical tastes than the driver. It's certainly not a general advantage for the average person.
You obviously don't have kids. That's what the Outlook is designed for. Nothing like listing to XM Kids or Radio Disney for hours at a time!


Quote:
Originally Posted by tnpilot
How often do you load up more than 5 people for a long trip? It could certainly be valuable to a few people with large families that travel a lot, but certainly not a general advantage for the average person.
I'll echo what others have already said. People who shop 3 row vehicles do so because they need 3 rows! If my two kids each want to take a friend somewhere, I need the 3rd row. If I pick up grandparents, I need the 3rd row. I borrowed a Pilot a few years ago for vacation. I would have appreciated the additional room Outlook provides, because I almost had to put a carrier on the roof (for 2 kids and 2 adults!).

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Old 10-26-2006, 11:06 PM   #36
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Default Re: outlook prices announced

Quote:
Originally Posted by zach471
I'm not sure how the packages are going to break down, but it looks like ordering everything on the XR puts you pretty well over $40,000.
For 40k, I'll have the Audi Q. Just my .02 but unless they have some unreal lease deals, I don't see a lot of them moving like hot cakes.

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Old 10-27-2006, 09:36 AM   #37
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Default Re: outlook prices announced

Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYGUY10066
On this note I can not refuse the opportunity to say that all of this talk about resale and the like takes no ground to the "wise" shopper who actually purchases a vehicle and owns it for 5-6-even 7 years.
Only 5-7? That's just enough time to pay off the loan! My take on it is, if it takes 5 years to pay for, I'm gonna drive it another 5 years to get my money's worth. I've been driving for ~25 years and I'm only on my 3rd car. I don't understand people who switch cars every couple years, it just doesn't make any (financial) sense to me.

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Old 10-27-2006, 09:48 AM   #38
mrwag
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Default Re: outlook prices announced

Most financial "experts" will tell you to keep a new car for 10 years, or longer. I know its tough, that new car smell is like a drug.

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Old 10-27-2006, 09:49 AM   #39
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Default Re: outlook prices announced

Well, I had been interested in the Outlook because we were going to need something bigger than the VUE.

In September I made the move to an 06 T&C Touring. It has triple zone climate, 6 disc DVD changer (DVD screen too), mp3 capable CD player, heated mirrors, power driver seat, stow n go, 3 storage bins in the roof, power everything for around $32k w/ 72mos. 0%.

Tell me.. should I be glad that I did not wait for an Outlook? From my initial reviews of the prices, etc. I am ecstatic I bought the T&C. Same fuel economy, I have a 3.8l 6cyl (4spd only sigh). But still, I get a ton of room and features...

Oh well.. it became a moot point when I decided the deal was too good.

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Old 10-27-2006, 09:49 AM   #40
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Default Re: outlook prices announced

Quote:
Originally Posted by piney
For 40k, I'll have the Audi Q.
First off, a 40K Outlook is fully loaded, where as a $40K Q7 is the flat base model. Doesn't even have a 3rd row.

But what you really need to consider against the Q7 (or other lux's) is total cost of ownership. The Q7 requires premium gas and gets significantly lower mpg, so you're paying more at the pumps. As a luxury brand, I'd bet insurance rates are higher. And when it comes time for service & maintenance, you'll pay nearly double the rates as a non-luxury brand.

But everyone's free to spend their money as they wish.

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