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Old 08-20-2006, 09:10 PM   #1
James Gerber
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Default Possibly in an Accident?

Sorry for starting up a thread on this... but I was just currious.

Do Saturn dealers only tell you if a vehicle was in an accident if you ask?

I always asked about vehicle history at the used lots, but for some reason didn't even 'think' about it when purchasing my used VUE from the Saturn Dealer... and they didn't say anything about it either.

But I have reason to believe that it might have been....

My lowbeams were aimed incredibly low, so I finally adjusted them. (I could barely see Stop signs and pedestrians at night). I discovered as I did it, that the adjustment screw for the passenger light is a "phillips' style, while the one for the drivers side is a 'reverse allen key' style. Also, the drivers side headlight has much more 'give' when I take hands and shake it back and forth. Not to mention the plastic aroudn the back of the two headlights differs in colour. Is it possible this vehicle was in a frontal collision?
(which would explain why the hood doesn't close very tight either)

Is this commen for '03 VUE's? Or does it sound like one of the headlight fixtures was replaced at some point for some reason?

Also, the hood does not close 'tightly' (if you stand outside the drivers door, and lower you eye level to that of the hood, you can actually see infront of the vehicle thru the crack, roughly 1/4-3/8" high)

The clutchpedal is also pretty squeeky when pressed and released (even after they had lubricated it from a previouse complaint of mine), so I'm going to contact the dealer/service department about that and ask them about this at the same time.

thanks,

jg

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Old 08-20-2006, 09:29 PM   #2
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Default Re: Possibly in an Accident?

I doubt very highly that any dealer will offer up that information with out being asked. You could always go back to the dealership, ask, and have them run you a carfax report on it.

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Old 08-20-2006, 09:31 PM   #3
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Default Re: Possibly in an Accident?

I would just always ask for a CarFax report prior to buying, just like I always get one prior to buying a used car from a private seller or used car lot. And if it was in an accident, find out how major it was from the DMV or something. Although, some minor accidents might not be on CarFax. CarFax only shows accidents if a police report was filed.

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Old 08-20-2006, 10:07 PM   #4
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Default Re: Possibly in an Accident?

I think it's unlikely that ANY seller will offer any possible negative aspects of an item they are trying to sell unless they are required by law to do so (and maybe not even then...). The only exception to this I can think of would be if there is something obvious and they might try to point it out (and try to minimize it's signifigance) before you do in an effort to promote an illusion of trustworthyness. It's always "Buyer Beware"!

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Old 08-20-2006, 11:23 PM   #5
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Default Re: Possibly in an Accident?

In Canada, the dealer is required by law to divulge (tell you) of any damage over $2000, whether it was for hire (taxi), or a rental...this info probably doesn't help you much, but aren't there state laws for this kind of thing?
I would be looking closely at the frame (most important part - IMHO) for any signs of buckling especially at the front.....

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Old 08-20-2006, 11:35 PM   #6
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Default Re: Possibly in an Accident?

Most of the time, dealerships don't know. We only know what the person who traded it tells us, or what the CarFax says. We don't run a CarFax unless a customer asks us to. There are cases where the vehicle was traded in at another dealership and then we got it from that dealership, or we buy it at auction (as either a lease turn-in, corporate demo, or a retired rental) so we have no clue what kind of ownership history it has. We don't know if it was in any un-reported accidents unless the previous owner offers that kind of information.

Your best bet is to run a CarFax cause the dealership won't have any clue otherwise. If you bought it more than a week ago, they probably don't remember who traded it in or what the story (if any) is.

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Old 08-21-2006, 12:06 AM   #7
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Default Re: Possibly in an Accident?

I should clarify my last remarks on dealer reporting...I know it is a fact in British Columbia (Province), as ICBC (Insurance Corp of BC) keeps track when the car is registered, and subsequent change of owners and insurance claims....Dealers don't want thier licenses pulled....Had a dealer who tried to slip a small $2000 rear-ender on my friends car purchase right at the end (when signing the papers)...I was there as back-up...I immediately went to the car to look for the residual damage, all looked good, but I told my friend to walk if they didn't knock off another grand (That was for withholding the info when I asked, while we were checking it out in the begginnig...LOL). Some dealers...just have to shake my head....
btw - we got another grand off...

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Old 08-21-2006, 08:42 AM   #8
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Default Re: Possibly in an Accident?

Caveat Emptor: Let the Buyer Beware

One of the pitfalls of buying a used vehicle is you never really know what you are getting, until it's too late.

A CarFax report MAY show you that the vehicle was wrecked, IF the previous owner filed a police report or an insurance claim for it. If they didn't, you have no proof, other than what you mentioned.

Talk to your dealer and let them know your concerns. Don't expect much, though. It's probably too late to do anything about it now. You bought it. It is your problem. Lesson learned: Pay the $20.00 to do a carfax check BEFORE you sign the purchase agreement.

Caveat Emptor: Let the Buyer Beware

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Old 08-21-2006, 08:52 AM   #9
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Default Re: Possibly in an Accident?

Sounds very possible..or it could have been a warranty fix.

I changed one of my headlights as something fell off the shelf in my garage and put a gouge in it.

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Old 08-21-2006, 11:07 AM   #10
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Default Re: Possibly in an Accident?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdmessner
Lesson learned: Pay the $20.00 to do a carfax check BEFORE you sign the purchase agreement.
Any dealership worth their salt will pull one for you free of charge if you ask. If they won't, or they won't print it out and show you the whole thing, don't buy a car from them.

Also, CarFax only shows insurance claim, I think. I was in an accident in my old car that was reported to the police, but I never filed a claim on it because I had only minor damage and it was my fault. It doesn't show up on CarFax, even five years later.

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Old 08-21-2006, 12:26 PM   #11
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Default Re: Possibly in an Accident?

I think Carfax misses alot of things, don't know how they get their info.
I owned 2 vehicles that had tranmission replaced and one was in an accident.

Last time I checked on carfax neither showed anything.
I even tried to add the info, and it never showed up.

IMO.. It's the best we have, but it ain't worth much.

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Old 08-21-2006, 01:55 PM   #12
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Default Re: Possibly in an Accident?

James; I'd say the front end of your VUE has been wrecked to some extent. Look for damage/marks on the radiator and A/C condensor. Get on the ground and look under the front end with a light; look for new-looking parts, cracked plastic parts and paint overspray. Look under the hood for the same things, particularly paint overspray. Maybe it was minor damage and didn't affect the structure or running gear.

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Old 08-21-2006, 04:39 PM   #13
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Default Re: Possibly in an Accident?

Thanks for all the feedback.

I checked around and the framework and items around the front end "other" than the headlights seem to be in check.

Have yet to contact the dealer... but will do so as soon as possible.
(I get lost in their phone lines alot, so FAXING might be my best bet as they lack a concrete email address (from their site anyways)

All this buyer beware crap has me thinking about my Extended Care that I got on the vehicle.... if I should set up an appointment with someone at the dealership to go over it with so that no "surprises" hit me later on. I've read the agreement that came with the extended care card/plan, but it's quite vague.

jg

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Old 08-21-2006, 05:05 PM   #14
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Default Re: Possibly in an Accident?

Quote:
Originally Posted by James Gerber
All this buyer beware crap has me thinking about my Extended Care that I got on the vehicle.... if I should set up an appointment with someone at the dealership to go over it with so that no "surprises" hit me later on. I've read the agreement that came with the extended care card/plan, but it's quite vague.

jg
Yes, I'd recommend setting up a time to talk to the sales manager to go over all the details of your extended care plan to make sure you understand everything and nothing surprises you. To be honest, you should have done that before signing paperwork, but it's better late than never. You should also look through all your financing and other purchase papers to be sure there is nothing else that you may have questions about.

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Old 08-21-2006, 06:27 PM   #15
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Default Re: Possibly in an Accident?

I guess the biggest thing is I need to know who to talk to that won't b.s. me. For example, I was told by the sales guy that it still had warranty left when I asked about it, when I went to buy it, the financial person told me the warranty was over... if I didn't like the vehicle as much as I did, I would have walked, but I decided to stick with it. I then told the sales person (later on) that I had purchased the vehicle, but wasn't really impressed that it didn't have warrantly left, so I got the extended.. his words "Really? Well your better off with the extended any ways".

Has there been any discussion as to having a sticky for the VUE Forum where it has a detailed list of items to go thru before purchasing your first VUE?

I think it'd greatly benefit other people.
It could have the obvious, as well as some of the stuff that is not so obvious.
ie:

Before Purchase:
- Take a look around for this and that...
- Pay close attention to these items, and those....
- Test Drive (if you really like it, inquire about a 24H test drive)
- Make sure seats are comfortable, that stearing wheel adjusts to your needs...
- Was it a trade-in off a lease, or other
- Ask if the vehicle has ever been in an accident
- Regardless of the answer, if considering the vehicle, do a Car Fax
- Test drive at night as well if possible and considering purchase
- When it comes time for purchase, ask for ALL papers and a few days to read them over before going thru with the transaction
- ect...


This way someone could make up a list.

Just a thought. Unless it already exists on this forum.

jg

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Old 08-21-2006, 06:39 PM   #16
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Default Re: Possibly in an Accident?

Quote:
Originally Posted by James Gerber
- Test drive at night as well if possible and considering purchase
That one is very important. There are so many times people get on here and complain about something that they should've noticed during the test drive. Sometimes I think that the person just took it down the road a mile and then called it good.....dummy. Dealers will let you take the damn thing home overnight if you ask them, there's absolutely no reason to be complaining about lack of power, how the seats feel, etc. I'm amazed at how blindly some people go into a major purchase....a salesman's wet dream.

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Old 08-22-2006, 07:51 AM   #17
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Default Re: Possibly in an Accident?

The biggest problem, Slapshot, is those same people buy their new car with only one consideration: Price.

If it's cheap, and meets their monthly payment, they're all too eager to plunk down hard earned cash for something that really might not meet their needs. It doesn't help that most dealers have their sales guys on commission. They don't care about the customer,just how much comission they can get out of the sale. If they can get you in and out under an hour, theres still time for another sucker to walk in that afternoon.


Something my dad taught me a long time ago:

Never Never Never buy a car the same day that you go see it on the lot. Drive it, talk numbers, even work up the sales agreement, but don't sign anything. Go home and sleep on it. After 24 hours, re-evaluate the purchase. Go back and drive it again. Take it with you on your daily commute (to work the grocery etc) find out just how it's going to fit into your life. If the dealer says no, find a new dealer. It is far too big of a purchase to blindly walk into. In most cases, once you sign on the dotted line, you're stuck.

In James' case, his best bet would be to have the dealer pull the car-fax report. In the mean time, take the truck to a 3rd party body shop. Ask if he can hire a body tech for a half-hour to go over his truck. Anyone who has spent some time in a body-shop can quickly spot if a vehicle has been hit or even repainted.

If the car-fax comes up clean, and a body-tech can find no evidence of a major rebuild, you're fine. But if something does come up, he needs to talk to his dealer about what they can do. Chances are good that he's stuck with the truck, but may be offered a reduced price warranty (in this case, perhaps a partial refund on the existing warranty). That is entirely up to the dealer.

James, your dealer is not your friend. They may smile at you and offer you a free soda, but they are in business to make money. They do so by pushing out as many cars as they can every month, for as much profit as they can squeeze out of the customers. They won't tell you that the vehicle was ever wrecked, unless you ask them. The responsibility lies with you to investigate the purchase and find it's service history. It is unfortunate, but you are responsible for the truck and the payments once you sign the paperwork. Lemon-Laws do not apply to used cars. When buying a used car, it really is Caveat Emptor: Let the Buyer Beware

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Old 08-22-2006, 09:56 AM   #18
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Default Re: Possibly in an Accident?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdmessner
The biggest problem, Slapshot, is those same people buy their new car with only one consideration: Price.

If it's cheap, and meets their monthly payment, they're all too eager to plunk down hard earned cash for something that really might not meet their needs.
Keep in mind, for *most* folks, meeting your monthly payment budget is a big part of meeting your needs. A Toyota 4-Runner would've meet all my needs quite well, but I couldn't afford that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jdmessner
Something my dad taught me a long time ago:

Never Never Never buy a car the same day that you go see it on the lot. Drive it, talk numbers, even work up the sales agreement, but don't sign anything. Go home and sleep on it. After 24 hours, re-evaluate the purchase. Go back and drive it again. Take it with you on your daily commute (to work the grocery etc) find out just how it's going to fit into your life. If the dealer says no, find a new dealer. It is far too big of a purchase to blindly walk into. In most cases, once you sign on the dotted line, you're stuck.
Excellent advice! If everyone would follow those instructions, we'd have alot less posts like "Just purchased VUE, things I don't like......".

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Old 08-22-2006, 12:06 PM   #19
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Default Re: Possibly in an Accident?

I dunno.. I think the "I don't likes... " are good.

If you love your VUE 100% and wouldn't change a thing, that's great!

However, alot of people use this forum to help them out. If they can read up on other users 'dislikes' it helps them out for stuff they wouldn't have thought about.

For example... I could have done this whole CARFAX thing, and drove my VUE to the grocery store and to the lake, etc... but none of that would have let me know that when I go to change a light bulb, I discover the headlight enclosure is extremely loose.

Reminds me.. we should add to the list of things to do before purchase:

- Push and wiggle headlights, tail lights, etc... to see if they are loose or not

jg

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Old 08-22-2006, 02:39 PM   #20
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Default Re: Possibly in an Accident?

Quote:
Originally Posted by James Gerber
Reminds me.. we should add to the list of things to do before purchase:

- Push and wiggle headlights, tail lights, etc... to see if they are loose or not

jg
That doesn't necessarily tell you anything. Any nut with a socket wrench can tighten down a bolt so the lights don't wiggle.

As far as a broken headlight mount - we broke both mounting brackets on the VUE's headlights a long time ago. One was from removing the bong (I accidentally broke it trying to get the headlight assembly out) and the second was from a piece of road debris that hit the headlight and fog light and knocked them both out of whack. Both headlights jiggled a lot and were never quite aimed right and it had never been in a wreck (at least, at that point in time).

And as someone who sells cars for a living, I can say that most everything on here that's been said is pretty true. I know a lot of dealers really only care about the money, only a few are like the one I work at who actually care about the customers being happy. We bend our own rules on occasion to make sure that things work out.

You were probably persueded into buying without 'sleeping on it' because statistics show that most people who leave the lot never come back to buy. We try and get you while you're there. But the statistics are even better for someone who takes a car home overnight. If you're going to think on it, we want you to take the car, because 9 times out of 10, you're going to come back and buy it the next day. This also leads to happier customers because they're more certain of their decisions. Always always always try to take it home overnight, spend a day with it, and come back to the dealership after you get off work the next evening.

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