Non-starting Vue

[bibliotech]

My wife has a V6 Vue that refused to start. (starter would crank, but engine would not turn over) Upon leaving home it took 2 attempts (turning key for less than 5 sec. each time.) to get it started. She said it had been acting like that all day (usually starts right up) We went to dinner. 90 min. later car would not start. waited 10-15 min before trying again. (Flooding was not really an option, she's been driving Saturns for 10 years, but we wanted to cover the bases) Still no start. Called OnStar (nice feature) They ran an engine diagnostic: NO CODES. Tried again, no go. In the ensuing 2.5 hrs. wainting for a tow (that's another story) we tried a couple more times with same result. Car was towed to dealer. Sales rep. waited 2 hrs. past closing to give us a loaner (Kudos). Next morning, according to service manager, it started right up. Engine diag. showed no codes "fuel and spark tests" were fine. they can find nothing wrong. We've had the car two weeks, less than 300 mi. My wife feels she's spent 26 grand on a car she can't trust. We do't want to give it back, but are seriously considering it. Any ideas?

[bigbird]

Your description of the problem is confusing:
quote <My wife has a V6 Vue that refused to start. (starter would crank, but engine would not turn over)>
I assume you mean the engine would not fire. If you turned the key, heard the starter, and the engine didn't turn over, that means the starter wasn't engaging the flywheel. That would mean there would be no stored codes and the problem would simply be a new starter assembly. Assuming that's NOT your problem,the engine did turn over but failed to start, then you have a hidden electrical problem. If the techs can't find the problem, then how can they fix it short of your leaving them the car to drive on a daily basis until they duplicate the problem? If it were my VUE, I'd use my 30 day window to either get a refund or get another VUE.

[SleeperSC2]

Since this vehicle is still under warranty, I would ask Saturn to test the ignition module if they can't find any problems anywhere else. Most times such a part would carry no warranty, but with as few miles that are on the car, they should consider doing it and replacing it if it is faulty.

I'm not sure if a bad ignition module would trigger a code or not. I had a 1986 Olds Calais that had the module go bad, but no codes were present in the system. With the symptoms the car is presenting, it's the only thing that comes to mind.

I've had ignition modules crap out on a few occasions in other cars I've owned. In one instance, I had exactly the same thing happen. I'd try to start the car, but no dice. I'd wait awhile (sometimes hours) and try again and be surprised when the car would start. It would run for another couple of weeks only to finally give up the ghost. Other instances, the car would just quit and never start until the module was replaced.

Like any electrical part in a car, it will fail when it wants to and when you least expect it.

Best of luck in getting this resolved. It's hard when your expectations aren't met. Keep us posted.

Todd

[bigbird]

Don't you think that's one of the first things the techs would do is check the ignition module on a starting issue failure if no codes are stored? If the techs need to be asked to do that rather than testing it on their own accord, I'd look for another Saturn service facility.

[SleeperSC2]

I only offer suggestions based on my experience. I have no idea what a Saturn tech would do in your situation. But I would remove the module and have it tested. If you're unsure what they have done, ask them. They will tell you what they have checked.

This is a new model of car. Even Saturn is still learning about it. I realize your expectations haven't been met as I said before. But I'm sure Saturn will do everything they can to meet them.

Todd

[bigbird]

The 3L V6 in the VUE has been around for many years already. It debuted in the Saab and was then used in the Cadillac Catera before it even showed up in the Saturn L in the fall of '99. I believe that there have been some issues with the ignition modules in this engine. I agree, if you're unsure, ask the techs exactly what they did. Did they actually test the ignition module? If not, ask them why not. If they can't give you a reasonable explanation for any of your questions, try the shop foreman or lead tech. If he can't help, then try another service facility.

[Qlara]

Engine cranks but won't start, maybe the fuel pump or maybe Saturn Security System is doing something to the motor too.....

[Harry]

Originally posted by qlara
Engine cranks but won't start, maybe the fuel pump or maybe Saturn Security System is doing something to the motor too.....

Doesn't the passlock key stop the fuel from flowing if the key or its detector malfs? I thought someone here had a similar problem with an L recently? They may have had obvious codes though.

[Qlara]

Question is: Will any malfunction from Fuel pump or SSS set a code in the PCM? I know SSS normally won't let you start the car (Starter still cranks) if it's triggered....

For fuel pump operation, you can actually hear the pressurize sound when turn the key to ON but DON'T! crank the starter.....the sound only last 5-second. A quick check to know the fuel pump is indeed working.

[Dr. Bob]

This type of intermittent problem is one where you wish you had a technician with you when it happens again.

A tech would most likely use a divide and conquer approach if the car still doing it when he gets it. Probably a check for spark first, if there's spark, then check for fuel. Otherwise, if it's an intermittent and no codes are stored, the tech has virtually zero to go on until it happens again.

The bad news is that it will happen again, and the good news is that it will happen again. Odds are the intermittent will occur more frequently until it is no longer intermittent - e.g. it's a solid hard failure. Not what you want to tell your wife, but you will get some use of the Onstar. Of course, it's a perfect excuse for her to allow you to drive the VUE.

To add to all the things mentioned, it may be a crankshaft position sensor (assuming the VUEs have 'em). If the sensor isn't working, you get no spark. If they hadn't checked it, and I assume they would have - a check of wiring is in order to attempt to find any loose connections. This check should be more than a visual one, things that look ok sometimes aren't.

The other thing the techs can do is throw parts at it hoping it magically goes away - that gets expensive (in this case for the retailer), but at times that's about all that can be done. However, doing this also doesn't give a you confidence that you actually fixed it.

Maybe wafting some incense and uttering a few choice incantations to the gods of automotive-dom will help.

[BobL]

If it keeps happening, dealer can't trace it, and you're in 30 day/1,500 miles, I'd seriously consider an exchange on the moneyback guarantee.

Electrical gremlins, as mentioned by previous posters, are a real pain until the offending part chooses to fail permanently.

[bibliotech]

The dealership kept the car overnight, but could find nothing wrong. We picked the car up at 6:30 PM and drove home, everything was fine. At 9:00 PM the car refused to start. We figured if we let it sit overnight it would start in the morning as it had at the dealer. Wrong. 6:30 AM no start (starter cranks, but engine won't fire), so now we're waiting for the tow truck yet again.(At least we're waiting in our living room rather than a dark parking lot.) At this point they need to start replacing suspect components 'til the problem goes away, or we hand them the keys and walk away. That would be a real hassle for us, we really like the car and the dealer, but we need a car we can depend on.

[BobL]

IMHO, if you're in 30/1,500, give them this one more chance and tell them to just swap out whatever could have done this.

If it repeats its performance after getting it back, don't even hesitate one nanosecond in returning it. Another vehicle should not have this glitch, and the exchange should be totally painless & cost-free.

Probably a very simple thing such as a loose connector or ground, but you don't need the aggravation of an undependable vehicle when you paid your $ to get a new one.

Let the dealer use it as a demo/loaner for a while until the failure becomes permanent and can be diagnosed.

Good luck.

Bob

[Qlara]

That's the worst scenario I never like to encounter: A car starts up when it wanted to only.

So weird why it only starts after sitting overnight? Something maybe related to heat source like Coolant sensors, Emission sensors etc or whatever the dealer thinks are related to the no-start.

[bigbird]

"At this point they need to start replacing suspect components 'til the problem goes away, or we hand them the keys and walk away. That would be a real hassle for us, we really like the car and the dealer, but we need a car we can depend on."

Why would it be a real hassle for you to use your 30 day/1500 mile guarantee? You don't necessarily need to get a full refund and purchase another vehicle. You can ask for another identical VUE in exchange for your lemon if you like the VUE so much. They can probably get it for you the same day you request it.

[jdwon]

Originally posted by bibliotech
My wife has a V6 Vue that refused to start.

No need to go more.
I'd get another VUE.

+++
Jason
AWDV6

[L300Boy]

Speaking of cars not starting, did anyone here have the L series cold-start software bug? You turned the car, it would startup for a second, and then die.

Went to the dealer, flash upgrade, problem never came back again.

[bibliotech]

Just got a call from the dealer: the "cam-shaft position sensor was stuck in the open position." Of course they don't have the part in stock, so we're stuck with a POS Malibu loaner until Monday,but at least the problem has gone from irreproduceable to fixable.

[jdwon]

Originally posted by bibliotech
Just got a call from the dealer: the "cam-shaft position sensor was stuck in the open position." Of course they don't have the part in stock, so we're stuck with a POS Malibu loaner until Monday,but at least the problem has gone from irreproduceable to fixable.

You could got another VUE & new "contract".

[BobL]

Great, they happened to catch it in failure mode, and can now set you right.

As long as this cures it, and the way it was biting you'll soon know, you can now relax and enjoy the view (VUE).

At least the moneyback guarantee reduced the stress by assuring that you'd not be stuck with a lemon out of the gate.

Have a great Malibu weekend (car not beach).

Bob