VUE 3.5 Engine Mods - Strut Brace from Black Widow Performance.com

[chadster]

Here is the transcript from an email conversation I had with an engineer over at www.blackwidowperformance.com For us 3.5 owners looks like good news.......

Hi I am a frequent visitor to the saturnfans.com website and saw that
you are making vue strut braces. I am interested in one. How much
will they cost? Thanks,
-Chad


Honestly, we don't have a price set for them yet. We have a few
out "in the
field" being tested right now, they have been "in testing" for a
few months
and we have made some changes to the original design (changed from
non
adjustable to adjustable, bent rod to non-bent rod, material
changes from
aluminum to steel to high-strength aluminum) to see if there are any
performance changes based on the differences.



Our cost hasn't been determined yet
Next week we will determine final material and design. Then we
will get the
tooling ready and make a couple prototypes to test the tooling and
then we
will make them available to the public. So, I anticipate about 3
weeks and
they will be available for order.



any mods for the 3.5 v6? it is really hard to find engine
upgrades since it is a honda..... If anyone made a chip for these
they would get tons of sales......
thanks for the quick reply...
-Chad


We are working on multiple upgrades for the 3.5... no stand alone
chips,
though. Hopefully before the end of the year, unless something
unfortunate
happens, we will be releasing an engine upgrade package that will
boost hp &
torque by around 50 each. We want to get more than 15K miles on
the package
and see if it negatively effects driving/control during inclement
weather
before we release it.



cool... sounds like it would be pretty pricey... i would love an
xtra 50 hp.... are we most likely talking over 2k?
thanks!
-Chad


Honestly, I don't know yet. We are working with a new vendor that we
finally came to a tentative agreement with on Tuesday to sell us Kevlar
wrapped stainless steel lines for everything from fuel lines to brake lines.
If they manage to hold up their end of the deal it will not only add a
unique custom look and feel to our kit but will bring down the overall price
and add more overall reliability. The Kevlar lines are rated at 10k PSI
instead of the normal stainless lines which are rated at 3k-5k PSI.


So there you have it... looks like good news for 3.5's

[vue-vtec]

Originally Posted by chadster

cool... sounds like it would be pretty pricey... i would love an
xtra 50 hp.... are we most likely talking over 2k?
thanks!
-Chad


Honestly, I don't know yet. We are working with a new vendor that we
finally came to a tentative agreement with on Tuesday to sell us Kevlar
wrapped stainless steel lines for everything from fuel lines to brake lines.
If they manage to hold up their end of the deal it will not only add a
unique custom look and feel to our kit but will bring down the overall price
and add more overall reliability. The Kevlar lines are rated at 10k PSI
instead of the normal stainless lines which are rated at 3k-5k PSI.

For some reason, he evaded answering your question. As to what the kit would consist of. What do brake/fuel lines have to do with an engine upgrade kit? You don't need 10,000 PSI brake lines or fuel lines to make an extra 50 HP!

[scotted73]

Originally Posted by vue-vtec

For some reason, he evaded answering your question. As to what the kit would consist of. What do brake/fuel lines have to do with an engine upgrade kit? You don't need 10,000 PSI brake lines or fuel lines to make an extra 50 HP!

I don't believe they have established a price for the upgrade yet. Wouldn't you hold off until all testing was done before committing to a price? Maybe they are going to offer different packages.
As far as the Kevlar lines are concerned, upgrading the stock lines, especially the brake lines would help with durability and for some looks. Plus selling the lines as part of a kit would help reduce the price.

[Dante]

Well this is a pleasant surprise. Up until now, there have been a few vendors with lukewarm interest in mods for the 3.5V6. These guys actually sound pretty serious in that they have a product or 2 in testing.

Let us not beat this to death and read any more into this than we already know. I know, it's hard not to get excited, but we have to be patient and wait for them to get products ready. There's really no point in making SWAGs about what someone else is working on that we have zero first-hand knowledge of. Let's just keep our fingers crossed and save our pennies for mods!

[Tom92SCm]

Why is a strut tower brace 3.5L V6 specific? Aren't the strut towers the same across the different engine platforms?

--Tom

[Dante]

So far as I know, yes. DJ should be able to confirm with absolute certainty (among others).

[scotted73]

Originally Posted by Tom92SCm

Why is a strut tower brace 3.5L V6 specific? Aren't the strut towers the same across the different engine platforms?

--Tom

I'm guessing the limiting factor would be the clearance between the hood and the area the strut tower would cross over the engine.

[fotovue]

Heard anything lately? As far as the kevlar hoses, just because they mentioned brakes and fuel doesn't mean that has anything to do with the 50hp mod. but you would need better hoses for your cooling system if you got a supercharger right? hint hint?

[burnout]

If a supercharger came out for this car, I might just change my mind about getting a RL ion for my next car. (whenever that may be... at LEAST a year)

The automatic in the vue is killing me, but with another 70hp or so (I would guess), who cares! :P

[vue-vtec]

Originally Posted by fotovue

Heard anything lately? As far as the kevlar hoses, just because they mentioned brakes and fuel doesn't mean that has anything to do with the 50hp mod. but you would need better hoses for your cooling system if you got a supercharger right? hint hint?

No, not normally.

[D C]

They seem to be pretty elusive. Frankly, the only way they're going to get an additional 50 hp is through supercharging.

Kevlar wrapped hoses & lines? Huh??

[scotted73]

Originally Posted by D C

They seem to be pretty elusive. Frankly, the only way they're going to get an additional 50 hp is through supercharging.

Kevlar wrapped hoses & lines? Huh??

Of course they are going to be elusive. No point in releasing any information on items that may change. They did state howerver, that they were in the testing phase and wanted to accumulate 15,000 miles on the packages they have in the works.

The Kevlar lines will probably be similar to the steel-braided lines that are currently available for other vehicles. The Kevlar is used as a reinforcement for turbo, coolant, induction and auxillary lines. The Kevlar lines are used in sportbikes and power boats. Many upgrade engine packages included upgraded lines and hoses.

[vue-vtec]

It just seems really weird (to some of us more skeptical readers) that the hose info were the only "details" they were willing to divulge.

[D C]

Which are really just an appearance mod

[fotovue]

Originally Posted by D C

Which are really just an appearance mod

But hey- Appearance Mods have merit too! I mean, how much horsepower could we gain by upgrading the hoses, if adding a "racing or rice themed" sticker gives us 5 extra horses?

[D C]

Originally Posted by fotovue

But hey- Appearance Mods have merit too! I mean, how much horsepower could we gain by upgrading the hoses, if adding a "racing or rice themed" sticker gives us 5 extra horses?

I guess it depends if you're adding just the hoses or the hoses and the accompanying stickers.

[sspeer]

Hoses can defintely be as a performance mod. Braided Stainless steel brake lines are a fairly common bike mod and improve the feel and performance of the brakes...they're more hydraulically efficient....they don't bulge..which also makes them feel 'spongy'

[chadster]

Good and bad news... Here's the latest on the increased HP testing from Black Widow.....

Chad,
"We are going through the last tedious parts of material testing on the braces, getting the data is always fun, going through it always drains the life out of the project. But, we should be done soon and the braces should be ready by years end.
As for the HP/tuner projects... not as well as hoped. The upgrades in HP and torque have been great on both the 4 and 6 cyl engines, but we are finding that on the 6-cyl the axle shafts, CV's and occasionally a few other small parts of the drivetrain dont accept the power increase very well. So, now its a matter of wheel/tire size and material. Heavy wheels with side tires snap axle shafts and blow CV's like hand-grenades under wide open throttle launches on dry blacktop but the skinny tires just roast and there is no good hookup and a full throttle stomp at 30 made the front-wheel torque steer nearly pull an emergency lane change. I think the best answer, the one no one wants to hear, is that bumping the power as much as we have tried is just not a good idea unless a bunch of other factors are changed too. The power gains havent been "full-blown big-block muscle car" sized but they have been enough to generate a laundry list of expensive repairs.
heheh I love this part of the job. "

So there you have it... Maybe we could at least get a performance chip to deal with the shift points etc.....

[D C]

The CVs and axle shafts don't accept the power increase very well? That's a BS answer if I ever saw one. My guess is that they failed to increase the power at all and are just making up an "OMG we created a supercar monster" story to 1) get people excited that they have a clue and 2) keep people interested and waiting. I'll believe it when I see before and after dyno runs.

And "Material testing" on the braces? Huh?

[vue-vtec]

It's all B.S.