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Old 11-08-2005, 06:20 PM   #1
TheGreatFuzzman
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Default '01 SC2 Service Engine Soon Light

Hi,
I have a 2001 SC2 with about 64K miles on it. Since about 45K miles the 'service engine soon' light has been coming in intermittently. I have taken it to saturn about 10 (no exageration) times over the last year. They have given me two new O2 sensors, a PCM, and have tested the wiring harness. Does anyone have any idea what could be causing this? I also notice that the car 'kicks' a little bit coming out of certain gears... but that may be my driving style. Any help is appreciated.

Matt

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Old 11-08-2005, 07:56 PM   #2
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Default Re: '01 SC2 Service Engine Soon Light

Welcome to the boards. A little more info please. What was the last code you got? Take it to autozone and have the codes read for free. Are there any driveability complaints, noises, smells, and so on? The more symptoms the easier the diagnosis.

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Old 11-10-2005, 07:43 PM   #3
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Default Re: '01 SC2 Service Engine Soon Light

I will have to get back to you on the code. I will post it as soon as I find it in the service invoices. Since I got the car it seems to be 'jerking' when it shifts into the next gear, but that may be my driving style. I will try to figure out how many mpg i'm getting too.. maybe that will help.

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Old 11-10-2005, 08:46 PM   #4
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Default Re: '01 SC2 Service Engine Soon Light

Does the "Service Engine Soon" turn on a code? I thought only the "Check Engine" light produced a code. I've never gotten a code when the "Service Engien Soon" light came on. Luckily, it turns off right away once the problem is addressed.

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Old 11-10-2005, 09:50 PM   #5
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Default Re: '01 SC2 Service Engine Soon Light

get the code read. the "service" and "service engine soon" or "check engine" light has a code to indicate a problem.

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Old 11-10-2005, 10:41 PM   #6
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Default Re: '01 SC2 Service Engine Soon Light

I have a 01 SC2 with 69K. I've also had "service engine soon" light problems. The Saturn tech told me it was most likely vapor lock from not fastening the gas cap properly. When I left Saturn everything was fine for awhile and then the light came on again. The car also shifted funny and ran at unusually high RPM's. At that point, I switched fuel brands and shortly thereafter the light went out and hasn't come on since. I'm convinced the car hates certain brands of fuel especially Citgo. I hope you are able to solve your problem.

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Old 11-11-2005, 10:59 AM   #7
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Default Re: '01 SC2 Service Engine Soon Light

Yes i heard the same thing about the fuel cap and brands of fuel. That seemed to help at first... but i'm out of fuel brands to try. The light is constantly on now... from time to time it will go off after I fill up the tank, but it will come back on after a few gallons are gone. The symptoms you described such as high RPMs and jerking are also in mine. I'm going to get the code checked today.

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Old 11-11-2005, 11:44 AM   #8
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Post Re: '01 SC2 Service Engine Soon Light

Gas caps have gone high tech. They allow air in but won't let fuel vapors (hydrocarbons) out. The are also a pressure release valve. If pressure builds to a certain point they will release it. This is a safety feature and is not a usual function. They are part of your cars evaporative emmision control system. This system prevent fuel vapors from being released to the atmoshpere. The vapors are stored in a canister which is emptied by engine vacuum into the engine. This is all controlled by the computer.

Filling up with the engine running will set a light most times. See a lot of this as the weather gets colder.

Get the codes checked for sure. One other thing I would consider checking is the ECTS. The subject is quite popular on the forum. I'm not sure what year the new brass tip designed was installed in the saturns. I think sometime in 2001. An old style composite/plastic tip will fail and cause a high idle and several other engine issues. It is easy to check. The top 2 stickies in the "How to" section cover removal and installation in detail. Simply remove it and see if the tip is brass. Replace it if it is not with an updated OEM part. If it is brass just reinstall it using a little teflon tape or sealer being sure not to overtighten it. It is as easy to check as a spark plug.

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Old 11-11-2005, 12:19 PM   #9
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Default Re: '01 SC2 Service Engine Soon Light

Thanks for the info on the cap. I had autozone check the codes... there were 4:
P0130 appeared twice
P1133 appeared twice

P0130 said something about a malfunction in an electrical circuit for oxygen sensor 1. According to my Saturn service invoices, the O2 sensor has been replaced 3 times since i've owned it. I've also had a faulty connection at PCM12(from the sensor) repaired. I also had a new PCM put it. The invoices do not say which O2 sensor was replaced. I know for a fact that the front one (most easily viewable) was replaced at least once, because it is shiny. Autozone said the car had 3?? I dont know if the other 2 were or were not replaced. Both the codes seem to be recurring at the same time, as they are on all the invoices. I will look at the ECTS if you think that may be the issue.

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Old 11-11-2005, 01:08 PM   #10
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Post Re: '01 SC2 Service Engine Soon Light

I would check the ECTS at your leasure. I don't think it is an issue here.

P1133=HO2S Insufficient Switching Sensor 1 "This DTC determines if the O2 is functioning properly by checking it's switches"
P0130="HO2S Circuit Bank 1 Sensor 1 This DTC determines if the O2 sensoror O2 sensor circuit has developed an open circuit continuity check"

It sounds as if there is another short or open in the system. O2 sensors cycle back and forth rapidly once they hit operating temp(over 600 degrees). The computer would interpret a lack of input caused by a short as this fault. I would go back to saturn as this was supposed to have been repaired previously.

As far as I know there are only 2 O2 sensors. the front 1 in the exhaust manifold and the 2nd is after the catylitic converter.

Good luck and let us know.

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Old 11-11-2005, 01:19 PM   #11
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Default Re: '01 SC2 Service Engine Soon Light

So you're saying a short or open circuit would cause BOTH codes? I will try to get to saturn this weekend, i'm due for an oil change anyway. I may as well have them check the ECTS while its there... any more ideas until then are appreciated.

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Old 11-11-2005, 01:23 PM   #12
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Post Re: '01 SC2 Service Engine Soon Light

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatFuzzman
So you're saying a short or open circuit would cause BOTH codes? I will try to get to saturn this weekend, i'm due for an oil change anyway. I may as well have them check the ECTS while its there... any more ideas until then are appreciated.
That is my opinion. I would look to fix the short/ open then clear the codes and see what happens.

I'm sure others will chime in with their thoughts.

Good luck.

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Old 11-11-2005, 03:04 PM   #13
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Default Re: '01 SC2 Service Engine Soon Light

I figured out my gas mileage based on my last tank, since I just filled up today. With a 12.1 gallon tank, I'm getting 14.1 mpg. That is ALL city driving. Isn't that insanely low? I saw somewhere that I should be getting 25!? I checked the connector on the ECTS... its clean. I talked to the guy at Saturn, he said it would be $20 for a new ECTS. He couldn't tell me whether the one I have in there now is plastic or not.... He said I could take it out and take a look at it, then put some teflon tape on it and put it back in. Is that true? Is it a good (not harmful) idea to put teflon tape in there at those temps?

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Old 11-11-2005, 03:09 PM   #14
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Default Re: '01 SC2 Service Engine Soon Light

Something else... on my report from Autozone, for the P1133 error, it says: "HO2S Insufficient Switching Sensor 1 / Bank 1 fuel Control Shifted Lean (FA0SC)"

Does the 'fuel Control Shifted Lean' part mean that that computer shifted the fuel control lean BECAUSE of insufficient switching? If so, wouldn't that cause that big loss in gas mileage?

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Old 11-11-2005, 03:21 PM   #15
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Default Re: '01 SC2 Service Engine Soon Light

Most 2001s should have the metal tipped ECTS, but you can pull yours and check it. Putting some teflon tape on it before going back in is fine.

I'm guessing just the opposite on that O2 sensor. The PCM isn't getting a signal so it's assuming that it's running lean and richening the mix. That would make sense because running too lean can burn up your engine. Running too rich yields poor gas mileage, lots of carbon, and eventually a blown cat. All of which are cheaper and easier to fix than a blown engine.

There is something going on with that front O2 sensor. Either it's no good or the wiring to it is no good.

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Old 11-11-2005, 03:40 PM   #16
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Default Re: '01 SC2 Service Engine Soon Light

More info that may help... car idles at 900 rpm.

So I guess I should be thinking wiring? Is that something I can easily test myself? Can I access what I need to?

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Old 11-11-2005, 06:22 PM   #17
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Post Re: '01 SC2 Service Engine Soon Light

I'm with barnowl. The computer is not getting a signal so it is keeping the mixture rich. It may be staying in what they call the open loop. This is a program to run the engine that is predetermined. Closed loop begins once the engine warms up and the computer is receiving signals fron the various sensors and engine controls.

That would account for the gas mileage and the higher idle.

Quote:
According to my Saturn service invoices, the O2 sensor has been replaced 3 times since i've owned it. I've also had a faulty connection at PCM12(from the sensor) repaired. I also had a new PCM put it.
To me this is a big clue. Something in that system is causing this fault. Is there another Saturn dealer you could try? I suggest this as if Saturn made the repair and the problem remains they must have missed something. If it has happened again and ruined another O2 and PCM you could be looking at big bucks. They should stand behind their repairs. I'm sure someone has a number for the Saturn corp. I would make a call and see what they recommend.

Outside of that you will need to check the wiring from the O2 to the computer, have the O2 scoped (Checked with an engine analyzer), and possibly replace the computer with known good one and hope it doesn't fry. Big pita.

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Old 11-11-2005, 07:20 PM   #18
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Default Re: '01 SC2 Service Engine Soon Light

I hadn't even considered the possibility that whatever is causing this could be ruining replacement sensors/parts.... that's a big o ****. I am going to take the car to Saturn sometime in the next few days and request that they do a full wiring test on the O2 sensor, and all the way to the PCM. I took a look at a big section of the wiring myself, and it doesn't appear damaged. The rest of it was in that black plastic wrap, and that didn't appear damaged either. Nonetheless, they should do it for me. About the 'open loop,' you described it as a predetermined operating mode... and it doesn't go into closed loop until the engine warms up and the sensors check in etc... does that mean that even though all the other sensors may be checking in, the PCM is basically ignoring their signals and running open???

About the idle... 900rpms is a high idle? what is normal?
I think I will take a look at the ECTS tomorrow, I guess I may as well at this point... to make sure all bases are covered.

I appreciate all the help from everyone.

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Old 11-12-2005, 07:20 AM   #19
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Default Re: '01 SC2 Service Engine Soon Light

The fron O2 sensor is required for the PCM to go into closed loop. So, I'm pretty sure you are running in open loop.

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Old 11-17-2005, 07:58 PM   #20
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Default Re: '01 SC2 Service Engine Soon Light

Took it in on Monday... they said spark plugs were bad causing misfires, leaky oil pan, and it needed a fuel injection service. $275 for all that. Drove it 10 feet off the lot and the light came back on. I took it right back and left it. They called me tuesday and said it was something else (fuel system related) so they said pick it up Wednesday. They called me wednesday afternoon and said they took it for a test drive and the light came back on. They said the part they put in (fuel system related) was bad, and they ordered another one overnight. They put it in today, light still on. They have "no idea" whats going on. They were on the phone with the engineers at the plant today. Needless to say, i'm pretty sick of this. When I took it in monday, they said the two codes that autozone's ODBII read weren't even showing, but that there were 47 other codes. Most of the 47 were misfire related, i guess due to the plugs. I don't know what else to do... I told them nicely that i'm leaving it there until that light is off and whatever is causing it is fixed.. So now I wait...

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