SL2 Clutch problem. I am breaking up with Saturn!

[Traysee]

Am I getting ripped off?

Got the A/C fixed finally. Thought what the hey lets spend some money.
But when I went to the dealer initially, the rep gave me a list of all the other things wrong with it. Cam Gasket/burns oil. Some kind of coils losing it and misc other things that wound up to be alot. Battery acid!?
So I said let me get a job, been out of work for 7 months and come back to get the rest of the stuff fixed. Got the job and went back. Keep in mind.

This puppy has 130,000 miles and is a 94.

Now I go in and they do not know what I am talking about, all that info not in computer. Great. So leave it there and tell me what is wrong then.. all I know is it burns lots o' oil. I get a call 4 hours later. Oh it is everything. You need a new clutch, you need a tune up. Basically you need a new engine. Well it runs just fine. So....they say fixing the cam gasket stuff for 188 bucks won't help. What? They want to put a clutch in for 900. EEEK. So I call around and find someone that says 600 bucks for a new clutch.

I am assuming, since I am a very uneducated person when it comes to mechanical stuff. Should I go for it, get the clutch fixed for the 600 bones and wait till the rest of the car falls apart. My new job calls for me to commute a bit farther. Don't want the clutch to putter out in traffic and be stuck. My biggest paranoia. In lady terms, how do you tell when the clutch is going? Feels the same to me.

Then do I save my pennies and buy a NEW Saturn? Or break up with them nicely?

On top of all that the darn thing got it's window smashed in the other day and my stereo ripped out. Middle of the day and it wasn't even a fancy stereo! Dirtbags! I think I am cursed. Now the auto locks don't work.

[amazinghl]

You know you need a new clutch when you rev your engine while in gear, your car speed does not go up.

Who told you that you need a new clutch?
Valve cover gasket is VERY easy to replace yourself. $30 parts + $20 tools.

[Token]

My advice that I would give you, you probably wouldn't like. Mostly because I know how to fix everything you just mentioned.

But for somebody like yourself who:
A.) doesn't have alot of money
B.) doesn't know alot about engines
C.) Own's a 94 saturn with alot wrong with it

You should be asking yourself:
A.) How much am I willing to put into this car
B.) How much am I willing to put into this car after I get it fixed
C.) Is the amount that will get it fixed greater than another car that doesn't have any problems.

If I was you, I would go down to the library and get a book on your car and teach myself how to do it. Just by me telling you how to do it on this forum is'nt enough. You need to get a book that shows pictures and step by step instructions.

I told you, you wouldn't like my advice.

[geartooth94]

saturn told me @ 186,000 miles and 2.5 years ago I needed a new clutch.

Now I am at 241,000 miles and it is just starting to slip and make a chattering noise. I can still drive it if I'm not racing too fast. Steep hills are a little more trouble though.

Just drive the car and keep up on the oil level when you go to fill up on gas. If fuel economy is super-important to you, then change these items:

ECTS (2 of them: 1 for gauge 1 for computer)
thermostat
PCV + hose
rubber hose going from valve cover to air intake (usually old and cracked)
air intake temperature (AIT) sensor , but probably not really necessary if not damaged

and if you're getting a code 26, start with the EGR valve, then CCPS (captures stray fuel fumes), then O2 sensor

[clearanceman]

On my 93 SL2, I got 199,800 before the engine burned a valve and I bailed out and traded it for a 2002. The hydralic fluid was leaking in the clutch system, I had to add fluid every month. Plus, the clutch felt horrible but it was still doing its job I guess. You'll know when you need a clutch, the car won't go anymore. If you have tow insurance (AAA or similar) run the clutch until the car stops IMO.

[clearanceman]

If it was me, I would:
Keep adding oil and run the thing until it dies. That's what I did with my 93. It burned a lot of oil too, probably a quart every 1000 miles for the last 100,000 miles (out of 199,800). The compression was off a little in #2 cylinder since 75,000 miles. I think you can burn oil almost forever and at some point it doesn't really get much worse, at least it didn't in mine. Just save for a better car while you run this thing until it dies. By the time it dies, you will have a nice downpayment or you might be able to flat out buy a newer better car. Up to you if you want to buy a saturn, the S series lasts a long time but they aren't very nice and they have their problems. Luckily most of the problems can be lived with. My 2002 is starting to feel old with 68,000 on it, I'm not sure it will go as far as my 1993. but it was under $10,000 brand new and I'm keeping it until its wheels fall off, LOL. Then I guess it will be Elantra time for me. Buddy bought a new one loaded for $13,000. Heated mirrors, sunroof, cruise, power everything, CD radio. And they are more reliable in consumer reports than the ION.

[etbardensc2]

Since there was a big sale boom and tons of rare used cars are showing up, I'd save pennies and get a Used ion or something. The S cars usually last forever unless it was neglected from the beginning. I think yours has lived its life. If you get a used Ion make sure its Technical service bullitins have been completed and also the recalls. There wasn't a lot of recalls but they do solve future annoyances.

Edward

[Traysee]

I love this site. I get such great advice. Thanks again to you all for the info. My clutch feels fine to me. So at this moment I think I am gonna run the thing into the ground before I put some more serious cash into it.

The Saturn Dealer said I needed a new clutch. I think I will have a friend fix the gasket stuff and be done with it! Save all my pennies and buy me a new fancy one. Just like a pair of shoes!

thanks again!
Traysee

[clearanceman]

Originally Posted by Traysee

I love this site. I get such great advice. Thanks again to you all for the info. My clutch feels fine to me. So at this moment I think I am gonna run the thing into the ground before I put some more serious cash into it.

The Saturn Dealer said I needed a new clutch. I think I will have a friend fix the gasket stuff and be done with it! Save all my pennies and buy me a new fancy one. Just like a pair of shoes!

thanks again!
Traysee

That's exactly what I would do, except I doubt I would buy another Saturn. But who knows what they will have out when your car finally dies? You might be surprised how long your car lasts. Like when they told me my engine needed to be rebuilt at 75,000 miles and it went 199,000. That's a big difference.

Oh BTW, those S cars warp brake rotors. So when they tell you you need hundreds of dollars in brakes, pay someone you know to replace the front rotors (maybe the pads if they need it). The rotors are $40 each, mine always warp every 20,000-30,000 miles and I tighten the lug nuts with a torque wrench. But you can go another 10,000 miles will warped rotors (pedal will pulse when you apply brakes) and then when I can't stand it anymore, I buy new rotors. You can also have the rotors turned but they are thin enough that you can only really do that one time, two at the most. But don't pay hundreds for a brake job and try to get someone to flush the brake fluid every year or two, that helps the other components last longer.

[99blacktop]

What everyone else said, drive it until it dies. Just make sure you keep the oil topped off. Do a search on here for some tips on ways to try to reduce the oil usage. If the clutch was that bad, you'd know it.

Before you forget about them, I'd get a second opinion on that list of repairs. If they turn out to be scamming you, report the dealer to Saturn so they don't try to scam the next unsuspecting person.

Originally Posted by clearanceman

Oh BTW, those S cars warp brake rotors. So when they tell you you need hundreds of dollars in brakes, pay someone you know to replace the front rotors (maybe the pads if they need it). The rotors are $40 each, mine always warp every 20,000-30,000 miles and I tighten the lug nuts with a torque wrench.

Holy crap! My '93 SL2 had 100,406 miles when I traded it in and it was still running factory rotors, the front pads were replaced once. My '99 SC2 has almost 99,000 miles on it and the brakes have never been touched.

[eljefino]

Find a good independent mechanic. Then years from now when you trade in this S-car, whether or not you get another saturn, you'll still have a good relationship with the person fixing your car, whatever it is. The cars themselves will come and go but decent people are more rare.

Unscrupulous mechanics will give you a laundry list of stuff that's "wrong" when you first go in to see if you're a "game fish". Officially sanctioned dealers are not exempt from this. Remember one person's "thorough maintenance" is another's "unnecessary expense". You're not driving a helicopter; if you gamble it'll hold out longer and it breaks you can roll over to the side of the road.

[clearanceman]

Originally Posted by eljefino

Find a good independent mechanic. Then years from now when you trade in this S-car, whether or not you get another saturn, you'll still have a good relationship with the person fixing your car, whatever it is. The cars themselves will come and go but decent people are more rare.

Unscrupulous mechanics will give you a laundry list of stuff that's "wrong" when you first go in to see if you're a "game fish". Officially sanctioned dealers are not exempt from this. Remember one person's "thorough maintenance" is another's "unnecessary expense". You're not driving a helicopter; if you gamble it'll hold out longer and it breaks you can roll over to the side of the road.

I agree 100%. If you find a good HONEST mechanic, stick with that person. They are rare and can save you thousands of dollars.

[clearanceman]

Originally Posted by 99blacktop

What everyone else said, drive it until it dies. Just make sure you keep the oil topped off. Do a search on here for some tips on ways to try to reduce the oil usage. If the clutch was that bad, you'd know it.

Before you forget about them, I'd get a second opinion on that list of repairs. If they turn out to be scamming you, report the dealer to Saturn so they don't try to scam the next unsuspecting person.

Holy crap! My '93 SL2 had 100,406 miles when I traded it in and it was still running factory rotors, the front pads were replaced once. My '99 SC2 has almost 99,000 miles on it and the brakes have never been touched.

You must go very easy on the brakes, I got 80,000 out of my front pads on my 93 but the rotors still warped every 20,00-25,000 miles.

[clearanceman]

Originally Posted by Traysee

I love this site. I get such great advice. Thanks again to you all for the info. My clutch feels fine to me. So at this moment I think I am gonna run the thing into the ground before I put some more serious cash into it.

The Saturn Dealer said I needed a new clutch. I think I will have a friend fix the gasket stuff and be done with it! Save all my pennies and buy me a new fancy one. Just like a pair of shoes!

thanks again!
Traysee

Traysee, I would recommend you continue to do proper maintenance on your car, I must clarify that running it until it dies for me still means changing all the fluids as suggested, other maintenance as needed. Personally I use all synthetic fluids but that is another story. I didn't mean to imply I don't maintain my car properly just that I try to get as many miles as practical out of them before I have to get another one.

[99blacktop]

Originally Posted by clearanceman

You must go very easy on the brakes, I got 80,000 out of my front pads on my 93 but the rotors still warped every 20,00-25,000 miles.

Not really, I always drive the car like I stole it and usually wait until the last second to brake. I think it's technique, being light on the pedal. Unless I absolutely have to, I never hit the brakes very hard and I never hold the pedal down for more than a couple seconds at a time, you've gotta let the rotors/pads breathe so they can cool down. That's what I do, and I've never replaced a rotor in my 250,000 or so miles of driving, although the SC2 is about due, with the Ohio road salt they can't last forever.

[BarnOwl]

Originally Posted by clearanceman

Oh BTW, those S cars warp brake rotors. So when they tell you you need hundreds of dollars in brakes, pay someone you know to replace the front rotors (maybe the pads if they need it).

I've seen people post this before and I don't get it. I've had my '96 for about 7 years now and I've replaced the rotors twice. Not because they really needed it, but because I was doing the pads. Cheap white box rotors for $17 a piece and plain jane semi-metallic pads. I've never had a problem with my rotors warping on either of my S-series. The SW2 did have rusted rotors from sitting up. I haven't had enough time on the new rotors to see whether I'll have a problem or not.

[clearanceman]

Originally Posted by 99blacktop

Not really, I always drive the car like I stole it and usually wait until the last second to brake. I think it's technique, being light on the pedal. Unless I absolutely have to, I never hit the brakes very hard and I never hold the pedal down for more than a couple seconds at a time, you've gotta let the rotors/pads breathe so they can cool down. That's what I do, and I've never replaced a rotor in my 250,000 or so miles of driving, although the SC2 is about due, with the Ohio road salt they can't last forever.

I'll try that, I just hold the brakes down until the car stops, not really hard but I don't hold 2 seconds then let up, hold let up.

[Traysee]

I got a copy of the "official notes" of the Saturn mechanic. Here is what is says about my clutch.

"NOTICED" cluth slipping. Pedal almost all the way before trans. engages. Needs clutch real soon. --Real soon to me is wait a while till it really goes out.

I am satisfied with that for now.

Other things they listed: My complaint...Burns the oil bad. I have been using synthetic oil per the ol new Saturn dealer oil change plan.

To totally repair oil burning issues. Would have to rebuild piston rings, bearings, valve seals. Cam gasket leaking. Oil pan gasket leaking alot. Just a little oil inside plug holes. Replace fuel filter.

Also, both ignition coil towers are corroded. Wires are corroded. Plugs worn, air filter dirty. TAM(?) collapsed (noisy and heavy vibration) Belt squeaking. Can do a few flushes for the oil burning such as engine flush and F/I (?) Service.

I swear my car purrs like a kitten, not like a grumpy tiger like they are describing.

Sounds like it is do for a tune up to me. I can handle all that. Or those little things. Just bought me my Saturn book and have a friend that can help! Wish me luck!

Hey they did not charge me a CENT for the diagnosis. I think they felt sorry for me. OR they think I am coming back.

[99blacktop]

My non-mechanic opinion would be to stop using synthetic oil. Either switch back to conventional oil, or possibly try that Valvoline high mileage stuff. As for the air filter, you can check that yourself and replace the filter for pretty cheap.

[dansl2]

From what you last posted, other than needing a new clutch (questionable) you can take care of a lot of the other stuff for around $100 +labor (yours, or a friends, or a mechanic)
Plugs: NGK's-$1.99 ea($8 max)
wires: OEM or aftermarket-$20-$30
Clean coil towers-free
air filter- $12
Oil Change-yourself approx:$13, someplace w/coupon approx:$20
Top motor mount-approx $60 (saturnparts.com, or saturnparts.net)
Clean rings & maybe slow oil leak-Sea Foam or Marvel Miracle Oil treatment (not sure of that cost, but under $12)
Not sure the price of Cam cover gasket, but reasonable & easy to change.

Six-pack to reward yourself for saving all that money-priceless