5 speed automatic question...

[NEWLW300OWNR]

Will the 5 speed automatic used on V6 VUE's be available on 2003 V6 L series cars? If so, what other GM vehicles use this transmission and has it yet proven to be reliable or troublesome?

[Jeff P]

This is an interesting subject. There's been talk that this transmission is at it's core the same unit GM builds and sells to BMW for the 5 series cars, as well as the unit that will be in the new Cadillac CTS. This is great news if it is the case. My question is how much different is this tranny than those, seeing how they're both rear wheel drive cars, and the BMW is a V8 with about 280 hp. It can't be exactly the same.

It would be cool if the L got a 5 speed auto, this would be a nice feature that many other midsize cars are lacking. Now if we could just get a stick shift with the V6...

jeff

[Charlie]

I seem to remember hearing something that lead me to believe that the restyled 2003 L would get the 5-speed auto from the VUE when it debuts next spring. The 2003 Ion is slated to get the CVT.

Charlie

[kjackson]

The L-series will get the 5 speed auto in 2003? If it does it will probably be the same unit from the 2002 Saab 9-5 since these cars share some mechanicals. The 5-speed auto in the Cadillac CTS is the same GM unit used in the 5-series BMW and it is built for rear wheel drive applications. If GM could use this unit for front-wheel drive, I would like to think that they would issue them for use in their front-drive Cadillac models(DTS & STS) for the remainder of their life span.

[GoKyu L300]

It's high time that most mid-size and better cars get a 5 speed automatic transmission. Manuals have had them for years, and they're already up to 6 speeds. Looks like manuals will always be one gear ahead When manuals had 4 speeds, automatics still had 3 (did they ever only have 2?) speeds.

So if the L series is getting a 5 speed auto, that means that the L300 V6 will have to get a six speed manual, if they decide to do it....*drools*

-Bryan

[Jeff P]

Our best hope is that the Epsilon L series that'll come out in a few years will share a lot of parts with the related Saab 9-3. Saab has, I believe, the highest percentage of manual tranny sales of the mass market makes. So there will be a manual available for the platform, and certainly stout enough to handle any engine that the L will be sporting.

If it doesn't get a stick shift, they can count this potential customer out.

jeff

[DBLW1]

I remember 10 years or so back, when BMW were the few on the block with a 5spd automatic tranny. The new 7 series have a first mass production 6spd *automatic* tranny. Makes me wonder with that that logic, if they're ever be a day when we'll see 7 gears in a manual.

[Qlara]

What's so cool about having so many speeds on the tranny? (Stick or Slush)

4-speed/5-speed is the gear and final drive ratios that matters.....more gears doesn't mean the car has higher Top-speed also. Most top gear in 5-speed/6-speed manual is just tuned for cruising, similar case in Auto-box.

Want more gears to shift for fun?! Go drive a trailer head.....16-speed manual can be as your disposal.

[piney]

Having the taller final drives makes crusing on the highway more pleasant and delivers better MPG. They also allow for better gear spacing at the lower speeds.

[haypops]

Originally posted by qlara
What's so cool about having so many speeds on the tranny? (Stick or Slush)

4-speed/5-speed is the gear and final drive ratios that matters.....more gears doesn't mean the car has higher Top-speed also.

No, but it does mean greater gas milage, faster acceleration, smoother shifiting, longer mechanical life.

[haypops]

Originally posted by qlara


Want more gears to shift for fun?! Go drive a trailer head.....16-speed manual can be as your disposal.

16 speed is an oldie , but a goodie. Most class 8 trucks are using 9,13, and 18 speed transmissions. There is also an increasing usage of automatic and automated mechanical transmissions.

[Diggs]

Originally posted by GoKyu L300
... When manuals had 4 speeds, automatics still had 3 (did they ever only have 2?) speeds...

Powerglide. Came in steel and aluminum. Lots of drag racers used them.

Diggs

[GoKyu L300]

Jeff P: You got it, man...Everyone and their mom is coming out with 6 speed manual V6 engines now, and if Saturn misses this boat...

I have to admit that the L200 5 speed is pretty nice. But it's hard for me to get used to 4 cylinder engines. I've always had a V6, and driving a 4 is really painful The only exception that I've found so far is the 5 speed, 4 cylinder Altima. With 175hp, 180 torque, it's pretty close to my L300.

qlara: It's not more speed that I would care about with a 6 speed, it's the gas mileage. Correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it, everytime you shift, your RPMs drop...the lower your RPMs, the less your engine has to work, and the better mileage you get.

Seems like with a 6 speed, you could really get up to...what, 80-85mph, shift into sixth, and probably drop to around 2500 RPMs. (Having an automatic, I don't usually check my tachometer much when I'm going that fast, so I don't know the average RPMs at interstate speeds...maybe I'll check next time I'm out on the highway )

Only problem with driving a big 18 wheeler is that it's not exactly sporty hehe...I want a stick so I can really control the car, but there's got to be more than a utilitarian use of the stick - it has to feel sporty too. I wouldn't get a Toyota Echo with a stick - I rest my case besides *that*, in a huge truck like that, you have to double-clutch, which is a pain. I know you can do it in cars, but what's the point?

-Bryan

[piney]

This is the ultimate in sporty!!



http://poseur.4x4.org/futuresuv.html

[haypops]

Originally posted by GoKyu L300
besides *that*, in a huge truck like that, you have to double-clutch, which is a pain. I know you can do it in cars, but what's the point?

-Bryan

Actually experienced truckers power shift, shift without the cluth at all, as often as possible.

[haypops]

Originally posted by piney
This is the ultimate in sporty!!



http://poseur.4x4.org/futuresuv.html

Ilike it. Good thing this is Saturnfans.com not isuzufans.com or the manufacturer might actually consider it.

[GoKyu L300]

Piney: haha...I totally forgot about that page...I went there about a year ago

haypops: hmmm...well seeing as I know nothing about truck shifters (other than the fact that they don't use syncromesh gears, which is why they need to double clutch...this info from standardshift.com), I figured that since they *have* a clutch, they'd have to use it, right?

I know what happens when you don't use the clutch in a car (a nice, friendly sounding *GRIND GRIND* ), so wouldn't it be the same in a semi?

-Bryan

[Jeff P]

If you get good at it you can actually shift without using the clutch without any grinding noises or otherwise bad stuff happening. My clutch cylinder went out once and I had to drive about 35 miles on the DC beltway during rush hour without it. Once you get the rpm's at the right level the stick will sort of pop into place with a little pressure. It's worth knowing how to do.

jeff

[Harry]

You don't need to use a clutch in a car, IF and only if you know the shift points and corresponding engine revs exactly. I get lazy shifting my manual '95 sometimes, half clutching, quarter clutching and eventually no clutching and as long as I'm in the zone it works great but if I get distracted then I sometimes end up grinding the gears and then I have to remember to clutch properly for a while 'til I get back in the zone.

The clutch and synchromesh are just there to deal with the times when the engine and wheels are at the wrong speeds slowing down one and/or speeding up parts 'til they match. If they're at the right speed, they are synchronized already and it'll drop right into the new gear effortlessly.

The main time you almost need a clutch is when you are getting started as the wheels are stopped so they can't be sync'd but you get even get away without it there too. Racecar drivers lose their clutches from time to time and this often means they need a push start in the pits as they often don't have a starting motor. With a starter, you can get into first from a dead start clutchless. Not good for your car but it can be done.

For best 0-60 times, no clutch is used -- wastes too much time.

[GoKyu L300]

Harry: Wow, that's crazy I didn't know it was possible to do that...I figured for starting from a dead stop, you'd *have* to, just because as you let up on the clutch, the wheels start turning, so...

Sure sounds like a pretty advanced technique to me, though...I think I'll stick with using the clutch for awhile

-Bryan