GM's problems continue. Lansing plant shuts down after 104 years in operation.

[TomH]

Link to the story below.


http://lsj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article...WS03/505070327

[walt]

These auto workers that did not get jobs in other GM plants will surely be able to get work with their experance at the newer Hyundai and Toyota plants opening.They may have to relocate however.Whats happening to the American automobile and its work force is frightening.

[VTHokie00SL2]

Want me to buy another GM car? Bring back Saturn as it once existed, with the Deming-inspired Spring Hill operation that proved that GM could actually learn from the Japanese. Bring back the dent resistant plastic panels. Bring back sleek, sporty looking cars.

As it is, I'm having a hard time finding a decent fully loaded used SL2. I'd probably buy a new one, if it was still being made!

[tksaturn]

When I get rid of my 2002 SL2, I'll not have another Saturn. I'm going to Honda or Toyota. When Polymer and Spring Hill go, there goes Saturn. That Lajdziak ***** was the worst person over an auto division we could have had!!!!!

[GmG]

Originally Posted by VTHOKIE97SL2

As it is, I'm having a hard time finding a decent fully loaded used SL2. I'd probably buy a new one, if it was still being made!

Pretty much my sentiments, except I was looking for an SC2. I eventually settled on one with ABS and AC as the only options.

[GR898SL2]

First Linden, NJ, then Lansing. Baltimore is next.

[seamus1066]

Originally Posted by TomH

Link to the story below.


http://lsj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article...WS03/505070327

Well the rest of the story is those employees were the ones that did not go to the Brand New Lansing plant that is a state of the art assembly plant. It is a plant where a lot of what was learned at Spring Hill has been put into practice.

Others like the fork lift driver stayed where they were because they had a good position there and were either close to retiring or already past the 30 year mark.

The employees there knew the end was coming. The new plant was being built and most of their co-workers had already transfered there by the time the old Lansing plant closed the other day. Though no doubt it was still a sad day when a plant that was a part of daily life for 4 generations was put to rest for the final time.

As long as most all of those at retirement age take their retirement. Then I feel certain that most of the rest will be put back to work at other GM plants.

[Sky King]

Originally Posted by VTHOKIE97SL2

Want me to buy another GM car? Bring back Saturn as it once existed, with the Deming-inspired Spring Hill operation that proved that GM could actually learn from the Japanese. Bring back the dent resistant plastic panels. Bring back sleek, sporty looking cars.

As it is, I'm having a hard time finding a decent fully loaded used SL2. I'd probably buy a new one, if it was still being made!

AAAAAMEN!!!!

[1995 SC2]

Saturn won't bring back the "S" Series! It makes too much Business Sense to do that!

[myoung]

Originally Posted by 1995 SC2

Saturn won't bring back the "S" Series! It makes too much Business Sense to do that!

Perhaps you can elaborate on how it makes "Business Sense" to bring back a car that was dated three years ago? If it were moving a ton of units in 2002, you might have a point. Fact is, sales were poor, at best. So there's no "Business Sense" there.

[96GSL1]

That's kinda sad. I used to drive by that plant when I lived in Lansing. I remember how "everyone" in town wanted to work for GM. Things sure change don't they.

[spencerb]

Originally Posted by VTHOKIE97SL2

As it is, I'm having a hard time finding a decent fully loaded used SL2. I'd probably buy a new one, if it was still being made!

You'd be the only one. Sales were poor in 2002 when it was still produced. Most people woke up and realized that the competitors were simply better cars with good realibility and far better styling (particularly the interior).

[97_Saturn_SL2]

Originally Posted by seamus1066

Well the rest of the story is those employees were the ones that did not go to the Brand New Lansing plant that is a state of the art assembly plant. It is a plant where a lot of what was learned at Spring Hill has been put into practice.

Others like the fork lift driver stayed where they were because they had a good position there and were either close to retiring or already past the 30 year mark.

The employees there knew the end was coming. The new plant was being built and most of their co-workers had already transfered there by the time the old Lansing plant closed the other day. Though no doubt it was still a sad day when a plant that was a part of daily life for 4 generations was put to rest for the final time.

As long as most all of those at retirement age take their retirement. Then I feel certain that most of the rest will be put back to work at other GM plants.

Exactly. People, plant closings happen for a variety of reasons. I believe this one has been in the works for a while now, as in years (as a new, state of the art facility has partially taken its place in Lansing). Despite the provacative thread title, it isn't like GM said, "Gee, we lost a billion bucks last quarter; we have to shut this old plant down..." Lansing has gotten a lot of attention, as one of the plants there is the place where the revitalized Cadillacs are built (CTS and STS, not sure about SRX).

Not every plant closing is a symptom of "GM's problems continuing". Sometimes you have to close plants that have been around forever in order to make room for newer, more modern facilities that are more efficient, environmentally sound, etc.

[VTHokie00SL2]

Originally Posted by spencerb

You'd be the only one. Sales were poor in 2002 when it was still produced. Most people woke up and realized that the competitors were simply better cars with good realibility and far better styling (particularly the interior).

Nobody will argue that the S Series wasn't due for a redesign. But they should have replaced it with something better, or even kept the same platform and upgraded it (particularly the interior and powertrain). As it is, the ION was a cheap car which GM obviously spent very little money on, and it shows in the ION's sales. What you just said about competitors to the S Series applies also to the ION, sadly.

[VTHokie00SL2]

Originally Posted by 97_Saturn_SL2

Not every plant closing is a symptom of "GM's problems continuing". Sometimes you have to close plants that have been around forever in order to make room for newer, more modern facilities that are more efficient, environmentally sound, etc.

If only that were always the case. Maybe it is the case here with the Lansing plant you mentioned, but too often it's to make room for cheaper plants in places like Mexico, where an impoverished workforce can provide cheap labor and environmental standards are lax.

[spencerb]

Originally Posted by VTHOKIE97SL2

Nobody will argue that the S Series wasn't due for a redesign. But they should have replaced it with something better, or even kept the same platform and upgraded it (particularly the interior and powertrain). As it is, the ION was a cheap car which GM obviously spent very little money on, and it shows in the ION's sales. What you just said about competitors to the S Series applies also to the ION, sadly.

I 100% agree. I test drove an ION and really liked the objective qualities: ride, handling, acceleration, shifting, etc. Even the exterior styling of the QC doesn't bother me. The ION's interior is a joke; my 01 SC2 has a much nicer, upscale, and "cool" interior. The 03-04 ION sedan has a goofy grin on the front.

Back to the topic, I fully understand shutting down a plant that old. I work in manufacturing, and you get to a point when a facility gets old there is no point in trying to keep upgrading it.

[HighV0lt6ge]

" The 03-04 ION sedan has a goofy grin on the front."

It's definitely smiling at you isn’t it? I bet you a million bucks that wasn't by accident. I recently (2 months ago) began to lease an 05 Ion QC, and I already have ordered the redline front end for it, I just don't like my car grinning at me.

The problem with the S-Series is simple. Every car needs to be completely 'rebuilt' every 12 years, down to the chassis. (It's a law). So when we look at the S, it was either simply rebuild the s-series, or build a whole new car. Building a new car at the time was way more logical. The S sales had started to slip big time, and building a whole new S wouldn't work. But were Saturn failed was at the ION. They went after cheapness, cheap interior, bland styling, and look were that got them....Cobalt sales are sure to catch up on the total ion sales reallll soon.

Saturn (GM) needs (and it seems like they finally have) to follow Mazda. What you would you rather buy? A Mazda 3i, or an Ion? Hopefully the Aura and the Sky will benefit the Saturn perception, and start bringing people to the lot.

[VTHokie00SL2]

Originally Posted by myoung

Perhaps you can elaborate on how it makes "Business Sense" to bring back a car that was dated three years ago? If it were moving a ton of units in 2002, you might have a point. Fact is, sales were poor, at best. So there's no "Business Sense" there.

I'm sure part of the reason that S Series sales declined was that in 2002 a well equipped L200 didn't cost that much more than an SL2. I wonder though, how did 2002 S Series sales compare to 2003 ION sales? The ION has never sold well, and of course Saturn had to recoup the development cost of the car. The S Series sales should've been pure gravy, with development costs and tooling costs being ancient history.

[myoung]

Risk vs. Reward. They knew the S wasn't going to sell. They took the risk on the possibility of the Ion selling, and gave it unique features (changeable roof rails, anyone?) in the hope that it would move more units. I think the number was on par with that of the S in 2002, which is disappointing. But if they didn't take the risk on the Ion, I think a lot of us would be here complaining about that.

Could they have done it better? Absolutely. But at least they tried, and at least they're making an effort to change it, slowly but surely. I know we shouldn't have to settle since its a multi-billion dollar car company, and thats why you're not buying an Ion, and why I'm not buying one. I think they'll get it right with the 06.

[Citation84]

Originally Posted by HighV0lt6ge

" The 03-04 ION sedan has a goofy grin on the front."

It's definitely smiling at you isn’t it? I bet you a million bucks that wasn't by accident. I recently (2 months ago) began to lease an 05 Ion QC, and I already have ordered the redline front end for it, I just don't like my car grinning at me.

The problem with the S-Series is simple. Every car needs to be completely 'rebuilt' every 12 years, down to the chassis. (It's a law). So when we look at the S, it was either simply rebuild the s-series, or build a whole new car. Building a new car at the time was way more logical. The S sales had started to slip big time, and building a whole new S wouldn't work. But were Saturn failed was at the ION. They went after cheapness, cheap interior, bland styling, and look were that got them....Cobalt sales are sure to catch up on the total ion sales reallll soon.

Saturn (GM) needs (and it seems like they finally have) to follow Mazda. What you would you rather buy? A Mazda 3i, or an Ion? Hopefully the Aura and the Sky will benefit the Saturn perception, and start bringing people to the lot.

Well, I had my choice and I took the 05 ION. Mazdas are more than I wanted to pay [ION was 12,000 out the door w/ 5/60 warranty in lieu of an extra 1000 for "personalization" ] and repairs on them said to be more expensive than other Japanese cars since the very first ones [ read it in a couple of long term tests and from friends who have had them]. That isn't to say they aren't nice cars. They sort of resemble the ION in profile and they do look more expensive.
Saturn should emulate Mazda ? It already is. Their ads are as dumb as Mazda's! zoom zoom....