SaturnFans.com
what's new (beta) - classifieds - forums - photos


Go Back   SaturnFans.com Forums > Models > Saturn Ion > Ion General
Register FAQ Members List Groups Calendar Chat Room Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-07-2005, 11:49 AM   #1
Nowhere Man
Member
Nowhere Man is on a distinguished road
 
Nowhere Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 398
 

1995 SW2
Default Ion vs. Cobalt Crash Test Pictures

Seeing as the Ion and Cobalt have the same frame and are the same car with only one minor difference (steel panels vs. plastic panels), yet the cobalt scored higher on the IIHS crash tests . Comparing pictures we see the cobalt and ion reacted pretty much the same in all crash tests. I'll let the pictures speak for themselves.
Front crash tests
Cobalt:

Ion:

Notice how the fronts crumpled the same and how they both maintained their safety cages. Yet the Ion recieved an average and the cobalt recieved a Good. Now onto the side crash tests.

Cont. below

...
95' SW2
131,000 Miles
32-MPG avg.

Last edited by Nowhere Man; 03-07-2005 at 11:57 AM..

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Nowhere Man's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Nowhere Man reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Nowhere Man is offline  
SaturnFans.com Sponsored Links
Old 03-07-2005, 11:51 AM   #2
Nowhere Man
Member
Nowhere Man is on a distinguished road
 
Nowhere Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 398
 

1995 SW2
Default Re: Ion vs. Cobalt Crash Test Pictures

Side Crash Tests
Cobalt:



cont. below

...
95' SW2
131,000 Miles
32-MPG avg.

Last edited by Nowhere Man; 03-07-2005 at 11:57 AM..

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Nowhere Man's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Nowhere Man reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Nowhere Man is offline  
Old 03-07-2005, 11:54 AM   #3
Nowhere Man
Member
Nowhere Man is on a distinguished road
 
Nowhere Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 398
 

1995 SW2
Default Re: Ion vs. Cobalt Crash Test Pictures

Ion:

What do you guys think about this? Does the difference in door panel materials really make that much of a difference?

...
95' SW2
131,000 Miles
32-MPG avg.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Nowhere Man's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Nowhere Man reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Nowhere Man is offline  
Old 03-07-2005, 12:07 PM   #4
OhioVueBoy
Master Member
OhioVueBoy has a spectacular aura aboutOhioVueBoy has a spectacular aura aboutOhioVueBoy has a spectacular aura about
 
OhioVueBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: N. Bethesda, Maryland (DC) (Dayton Ohio Native)
Posts: 9,295
 

2002 VUE 2.2L
Default Re: Ion vs. Cobalt Crash Test Pictures

The reason the ION rated lower is that the steering wheel snapped off.
~D.J.~

...
2012 Mercedes Benz C250 Sport Sedan
2008 smart fortwo Passion Coupe 8/28/2008 - 3/12/2012
2002 VUE FWD4m - Gone but not forgotten. 5/14/2002 - 10/31/2011

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to OhioVueBoy's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help OhioVueBoy reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
OhioVueBoy is offline  
Old 03-07-2005, 12:17 PM   #5
VTHokie00SL2
Master Member
VTHokie00SL2 will become famous soon enoughVTHokie00SL2 will become famous soon enough
 
VTHokie00SL2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 4,060
 
Default Re: Ion vs. Cobalt Crash Test Pictures

I think it was more than the steering wheel coming off, but regardless, just being on the same platform doesn't mean that the vehicles are structurally identical under the sheetmetal. Take a look at the performance of the Saab 9-3. Isn't that built on the same platform as other GM vehicles with lower crash test ratings?

And keep in mind, the design of the seats, restraint systems, dashboard, and numerous other factors beyond just the safety cage come into play.

And is Charlie doing a little damage control by posting those crash stories on the main page?

Last edited by VTHokie00SL2; 03-07-2005 at 12:25 PM..

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to VTHokie00SL2's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help VTHokie00SL2 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
VTHokie00SL2 is offline  
Old 03-07-2005, 02:35 PM   #6
Citation84
Master Member
Citation84 has a spectacular aura aboutCitation84 has a spectacular aura about
 
Citation84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Tucson AZ
Posts: 2,968
 

2005 ION-1 Sedan
Default Re: Ion vs. Cobalt Crash Test Pictures

Also note that the dashboard of the ION looks like it is jammed into the left knee possibly causing an injury and lowering the test result.
Also remember that the IIHS is a government lobbying group funded by the insurance companies. Interesting data, but no big surprises.There are an infinite # of variables in every accident. Nice to know but I don't feel as if I'm driving anything more or less "safe, or less safe than the Cobalt or Neon or anything else. Accidents don't happen under such controlled conditions out on the street.
I used to drive a 99 Cavalier with ABS and traction control. Now I have an 05 ION w/out either of those things, how much "safer" am I now?

Last edited by Citation84; 03-07-2005 at 02:42 PM..

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Citation84's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Citation84 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Citation84 is offline  
Old 03-07-2005, 03:46 PM   #7
haypops
Senior Member
haypops is on a distinguished road
 
haypops's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Altadena, CA
Posts: 1,753
Default Re: Ion vs. Cobalt Crash Test Pictures

The ION results are not as bad as you might think. The following qoute is from the poster"evok" at www.cheersandgears.com He is an insider in the automotive industry and I have found his information always helpful and correct.
Quote:
I just compared the actual test data from the IIHS frontal crash test for the Ion and Cobalt. I am not refering to the rating but the actual data.
click here for thread containing this quote

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to haypops's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help haypops reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
haypops is offline  
Old 03-07-2005, 04:19 PM   #8
VTHokie00SL2
Master Member
VTHokie00SL2 will become famous soon enoughVTHokie00SL2 will become famous soon enough
 
VTHokie00SL2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 4,060
 
Default Re: Ion vs. Cobalt Crash Test Pictures

At first I was disappointed in the Mazda 3's performance, but it actually got an "acceptable" rating for the structure, and would probably do as well as the Toyota Corolla if equipped with the optional side and curtain airbags. I wish they would just test all cars with side airbags if they're available as an option. We already know that cars without them do poorly in this test, so why bother wasting the money...I'd have liked to see how the 3 did with the side airbags.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to VTHokie00SL2's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help VTHokie00SL2 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
VTHokie00SL2 is offline  
Old 03-07-2005, 04:39 PM   #9
haypops
Senior Member
haypops is on a distinguished road
 
haypops's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Altadena, CA
Posts: 1,753
Default Re: Ion vs. Cobalt Crash Test Pictures

full quote follows:

<<I just compared the actual test data from the IIHS frontal crash test for the Ion and Cobalt. I am not refering to the rating but the actual data.

It does appear that GM improved the structural integrity of the Cobalt vs the Ion but in the actual crash performace of the two vehicles after looking at the crash data of the dummy there is little variability in the two vehicles and what variability there is, is not a concern for me. Both vehicle perfomed comperable even though the Saturn had more intrusion and A pillar deformation. From a perfomance standpoint both vehicles are similar.

Here is a link to the IIHS data.

Note the HIC 15 value or Head Injury Criteria which is a measure of injury for the Cobalt and Ion:

Cobalt: 231
Ion: 245

Inorder for you to understand that value, the old benchmark set by FMVSS 208 was a 1000 and the new benchmark as of last year is 700. The 700 bench marke is for a full frontal barrier test at app 30mph. This is a speed well below the 40 mph use by the IIHS.

Besides the Cobalt and Saturn being well below the FMVSS 208 benchmark, the slight variability between the two vehicles could be attributed to test variability.

Please bare in mind I am just refereing to the frontal crash and not the side impact test>>

sorry that the original cut cut off.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to haypops's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help haypops reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
haypops is offline  
Old 03-07-2005, 05:33 PM   #10
cdp326
Master Member
cdp326 is on a distinguished road
 
cdp326's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,923
 

2007
Default Re: Ion vs. Cobalt Crash Test Pictures

Hmm...

Quote:
QUOTE (CSpec @ Mar 6 2005, 10:05 PM)
Volvo gets a ton of sales for their safety reputation.

regfootball:
and I would say this effectively kills Saturn's rep for 'safety'.

...
"It's a car. We've invented the Pontiac Aztek."

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to cdp326's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help cdp326 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
cdp326 is offline  
Old 03-07-2005, 05:47 PM   #11
cdp326
Master Member
cdp326 is on a distinguished road
 
cdp326's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,923
 

2007
Default Re: Ion vs. Cobalt Crash Test Pictures

Hey, anyone else notice that the Cobalt's torso injury rating magically goes down from Good to Marginal when curtain airbags are added?

...
"It's a car. We've invented the Pontiac Aztek."

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to cdp326's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help cdp326 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
cdp326 is offline  
Old 03-07-2005, 05:49 PM   #12
VTHokie00SL2
Master Member
VTHokie00SL2 will become famous soon enoughVTHokie00SL2 will become famous soon enough
 
VTHokie00SL2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 4,060
 
Default Re: Ion vs. Cobalt Crash Test Pictures

This quote from that thread bothers me...

If I were shopping for a small car right now, I think I would cross everything except Cobalt and Corolla of my list.

Those cars did just as poorly as the rest when tested without side airbags. The Mazda 3 was actually rated better than the Corolla on the structure/safety cage, and would probably have seen a similar improvement if they tested with the available side airbags. That's why I think the Dateline presentation was kind of misleading. If the Mazda folks were smart, they would have requested and paid for a second test with the side airbags, as GM and Toyota did.

GM definitely needs to add lower side airbags to go along with the curtains.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to VTHokie00SL2's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help VTHokie00SL2 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
VTHokie00SL2 is offline  
Old 03-07-2005, 05:55 PM   #13
cdp326
Master Member
cdp326 is on a distinguished road
 
cdp326's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,923
 

2007
Default Re: Ion vs. Cobalt Crash Test Pictures

I HATE IT when newscasters report on crash test ratings. Very rarely does a report go by without some mess up. A local news station just now reported on them. The guy said Hyonda Elantra.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VTHOKIE97SL2
GM definitely needs to add lower side airbags to go along with the curtains.
I agree with you one-hundred and fifty freaking percent on that one!
Quote from that site:
Quote:
It seems to be the GP and LaX that only have curtains, not torsos. And the '05 Imp and Monte only offer a side torso bag for the driver. ('06 Imp gets curtains only and '06 Monte gets left and right torsos only). WHY is GM doing this? I'd rather the full compliment of bags standard than OnStar, thank you very much!!
I'll take the SAB's AND HCAB's over OnStar too, thank you very much.

But then, it seems only a matter of time before they are required equipment as well.

Now...let's see the minivan side-impact tests!

...
"It's a car. We've invented the Pontiac Aztek."

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to cdp326's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help cdp326 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
cdp326 is offline  
Old 03-08-2005, 02:42 PM   #14
saturncanuck
Senior Member
saturncanuck is on a distinguished road
 
saturncanuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Markham, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,378

2006 ION-3 Sedan
2006 ION-3 Sedan
Thumbs Down Re: Ion vs. Cobalt Crash Test Pictures

Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioVueBoy
The reason the ION rated lower is that the steering wheel snapped off.
~D.J.~
Ion and Cobolt (Pursuit in Canada) use the same steering wheel and steering column as they both use the same EPS. Frame is the same too.

Just goes to show, the same car can be crashed two different times with two different results.

The bigger issue is obvious now -- IIHS crashes ONE car and assumes that this is the way that ALL of them will behave.

Has anyone heard of Chaos Theory....??

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to saturncanuck's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help saturncanuck reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
saturncanuck is offline  
Old 03-08-2005, 03:03 PM   #15
VTHokie00SL2
Master Member
VTHokie00SL2 will become famous soon enoughVTHokie00SL2 will become famous soon enough
 
VTHokie00SL2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 4,060
 
Default Re: Ion vs. Cobalt Crash Test Pictures

When they test the same model twice, the structures always perform the same. I think the ION and the Cobalt are obviously different enough. And the structures look like they held up about the same, but there are other factors that affect forces on the occupants.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to VTHokie00SL2's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help VTHokie00SL2 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
VTHokie00SL2 is offline  
Old 03-10-2005, 04:31 AM   #16
Red_Forman
Member
Red_Forman is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 281
 
Default Re: Ion vs. Cobalt Crash Test Pictures

The A-pillar on the ION looks like it buckled up a little...maybe due to the difference in greenhouse design. The ION's is a more extreme arch than the Cobalt's...I think.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Red_Forman's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Red_Forman reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Red_Forman is offline  
Old 03-13-2005, 09:07 PM   #17
atomicshark
Member
atomicshark is on a distinguished road
 
atomicshark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Long Island, New York
Posts: 202
 
Default Re: Ion vs. Cobalt Crash Test Pictures

Remember that the Ion was designed first. That being said, the Cobalt had the advantage of starting with a good structure and tweaking it a bit more to improve safety.

All cars can be improved upon even if it is the same structure/model. I remember reading how some cars that had done poorly were reinforced by using the crash data provided and they actually got a good rating the next year.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to atomicshark's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help atomicshark reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
atomicshark is offline  
Closed Thread



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Saturn ION named one of worst crash test vehicles 2NDSOUT Ion General 25 05-31-2005 04:34 PM
Ion Crash Test :Video: xDiego16x Ion General 15 04-01-2005 06:52 PM
IIHS offset frontal crash test result for ION VTHokie00SL2 Ion General 12 12-21-2004 01:17 AM
Ion crash test info alfkorda Ion General 4 08-06-2004 08:37 PM
ION crash test results? lewis/nj Ion General 8 01-09-2003 05:58 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:19 AM.

Advanced Forum Search | Advanced Photo Search


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SaturnFans.com. The Saturn Enthusiasts Site.