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Old 12-09-2004, 07:48 PM   #1
ciscovip
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Roll Eyes GM is Killing Saturn

I am concern about the future of our car company. It seems that GM does not know what to do with or they are t ring to kill the brand. The reason why I say this is due to the following observations.

1. The are selling a mini van that does not have one of the key ingredients that makes Saturn a Saturn Plastic body panels.
2. They have taken back our engineers with the pretense of improving the brand because our engineer will have more access to GM's resources. Is this why they make it so simple to get upgrade parts from GM performance center for the caviler and nothing for the Saturn ion. I will not even comment on the Cobalt. If you look at autoweeks converge of the SEMA show they have a sedan version of the cobalt SS. Why doesn't Saturn have a Sedan version of the red line. I am sure I am not the only person that has a family and would like to have a sporty 4 door sedan. This would still allow me to carry my children and not feel old. Instead they are producing a two seater roadster. Do these manages have a clue as to who is buying Saturns.
3.There will be a new L replacement and that is rumored to be another metal car.

These are only three of many more example that have made me reach my conclusion.

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Old 12-09-2004, 09:14 PM   #2
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Default Re: GM is Killing Saturn

Polymer panels are being phased out on all Saturns. Im convinced by 2007 the VUE and ION will be all metal.The L replacement will be a rebadged malibu next year.The Sky is not suppose to be a sales winner,but and Image grabber.Like most GM two seaters which proceeded the Sky they usally last a few years at most and then are scrapped due to lack of sales,but If the L replacement has not done its job by then all the sports cars in China wont help Saturn stay afloat.The ION still takes its lumps from the auto press, and thats to bad because its a nice car for the money.The cobalt will most likely be favored by GM and Im sure the center pod dash in the ION will be replaced in the future and that will pretty much make the ION a Chevy once its built out of steel.I dont think GM is trying to kill Saturn intentionally,but many of us who own and drive Saturns seem to see things in a differnt light than the GM top brass.Hopefully I dont know what the he_ _ Im talking about and all will turn out happly ever after for Saturn.

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Old 12-09-2004, 11:34 PM   #3
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Default Re: GM is Killing Saturn

Jill is making it clear that Saturn's brand is focused on customer service, not polymer. Save for the Relay, the rest of Saturn's future products will not be rebadges, and hopefully will fill a unique styling market.

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Old 12-10-2004, 12:04 AM   #4
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Roll Eyes Re: GM is Killing Saturn

Why do we have to take over the other? Why cannot there be two? Are they going to wait until the Japanese manufactures make a car with plastic body panels before they understand that they have a good thing. Or is GM management saying that there can only be two performance brands [Chevrolet and Pontiac] in there organization. The brand is about affordable well built cars. We see what mother GM has done with the ION. We went from a car that four wheel independent suspension four wheel disk to a modified beam rear suspension and drum brakes. I am off the opinion that we need to change out the GM management because they short sited and only understand V8s.

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Old 12-10-2004, 12:26 AM   #5
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Happy Re: GM is Killing Saturn

Quote:
Originally Posted by ciscovip
Why do we have to take over the other? Why cannot there be two? Are they going to wait until the Japanese manufactures make a car with plastic body panels before they understand that they have a good thing. Or is GM management saying that there can only be two performance brands [Chevrolet and Pontiac] in there organization. The brand is about affordable well built cars. We see what mother GM has done with the ION. We went from a car that four wheel independent suspension four wheel disk to a modified beam rear suspension and drum brakes.
I wasn't aware that there were any Saturn products with four-wheel disk brakes until the Red Line's came along...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ciscovip
I am off the opinion that we need to change out the GM management because they short sited and only understand V8s.
What is wrong with V8s???? hehe

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Old 12-10-2004, 12:44 AM   #6
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Default Re: GM is Killing Saturn

My 98 sl2 has four wheel disk brakes. There is nothing wrong as long as you have a open mind that other car formats are able to be performance oriented. Doe we need that Japanese to do it. so we can loos more of our jobs.

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Old 12-10-2004, 02:17 AM   #7
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Default Re: GM is Killing Saturn

Personaly I liked the fact that Saturn was "different".But wheres the fun in every car being a rebadged product?

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Old 12-10-2004, 08:34 AM   #8
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Default Re: GM is Killing Saturn

Do we have to have one of these "evil GM is killing Saturn" threads every other day?

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Old 12-10-2004, 08:58 AM   #9
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Default Re: GM is Killing Saturn

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhickerson
I wasn't aware that there were any Saturn products with four-wheel disk brakes until the Red Line's came along...


What is wrong with V8s???? hehe

Our '00 LW2 is running four wheel disc's.


Nothing wrong with V8's... Especially if you own a gas station....

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Old 12-10-2004, 09:04 AM   #10
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Default Re: GM is Killing Saturn

I have a friend whose late father was a big bellowing kind of guy who allegedly once had a tryout with the NY Giants football team. When he would have a disagreement with his son, he would often try to win the arguement by pounding his fist on the table and telling him 'I made ya, I'll ruin ya!"
In a way, GM and Saturn have a similar kind of relationship in which GM created Saturn, and can either continue to grow and support Saturn or pull the plug as they so desire. In the past few years the General has made a conscious decision to financially back Saturn at the price of bringing Saturn more directly under the parent's control. They are not trying to ruin Saturn but believe that their strategy is the best and perhaps the only way to make the company successful. Only time and customers' buying choices will tell if GM is right.

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Old 12-10-2004, 09:19 AM   #11
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Default Re: GM is Killing Saturn

Until that time John8 all us little people can kick around our views and ideas,and who knows maybe one of those big shots from GM will drop by this web page and take and idea or two.

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Old 12-10-2004, 09:32 AM   #12
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Default Re: GM is Killing Saturn

read the topic:
"After losing billions, GM junks the DIFFERENT KIND OF COMPANY plan and tries again"
Saturn is dead. Long live Saturn.

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Old 12-10-2004, 09:35 AM   #13
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Default Re: GM is Killing Saturn

Quote:
Originally Posted by 97_Saturn_SL2
Do we have to have one of these "evil GM is killing Saturn" threads every other day?
Unfortunately it looks that way. If they think GM is killing Saturn, then they can leave Saturn. To succeed in any business, you have to run the risk of losing some customers to get more. You can't be stagnant and sell the same thing for 15 years or you'll be thought of as irrelevant. Gee, wasn't that happening? I think everyone just remembers the 70's and 80's type of rebadging when it was basically just different emblems on the same car. Honestly, do the Malibu or Saab 9-3 look like the same car? No? So why worry about Saturn using the same platform? The Ion and Cobalt don't look related, neither will the Sky and Solstice. There's more to a Saturn than polymer panels. I have a feeling that if Saturn had just been allowed to die, people would complain about that too, just as they complain about whatever way GM may find to keep it alive. You can't please everyone.....but I'll be happy when I get a Sky.

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Old 12-10-2004, 09:43 AM   #14
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Default Re: GM is Killing Saturn

Quote:
Originally Posted by spencerb
Jill is making it clear that Saturn's brand is focused on customer service, not polymer. .
Jill must be one those people who can't walk and chew gum at the same time.
Saturn's already mastered the customer service end.
What, they can't focus on other goals such as quality, value, and performance as well?

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Old 12-10-2004, 10:09 AM   #15
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Default Re: GM is Killing Saturn

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhickerson
I wasn't aware that there were any Saturn products with four-wheel disk brakes until the Red Line's came along...


What is wrong with V8s???? hehe

4-wheel disks were available since the beginning. My 93 SL2 has 'em

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Old 12-10-2004, 10:22 AM   #16
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Default Re: GM is Killing Saturn

ALL 3 of my Saturns have/had them. As well as the trac control.
One of those perks you get on an entry level car. (even though they cost extra)

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Old 12-10-2004, 02:36 PM   #17
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Default Re: GM is Killing Saturn

Quote:
Originally Posted by walt
Until that time John8 all us little people can kick around our views and ideas,and who knows maybe one of those big shots from GM will drop by this web page and take and idea or two.
Walt- I believe that a few of them are familiar with this site. The trouble is I think they are convinced that most of us are "different" and perhaps not quite right, if you know what I mean.

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Old 12-10-2004, 06:27 PM   #18
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Default Re: GM is Killing Saturn

The reason Saturn is fazing out the polymer panels is due to the fact that they are to expensive to produce for anything larger than the Ion and the Vue. Lets face it also, once Spring Hill gets re-designed and the Ions start moving out of Detroit, (where they will be produced side by side with another GM vehicle {which I dont remember what}) It would be impossibly expensive to have polymer on one side of the plant and steel on the other. Secondly, polymer, contrary to popular belief is NOT Saturn, the Customer Service and No haggle No hassle pricing is. Also, imagine if you will a polymer panel the size of a Relay's door panel. Now, think of how hard polymer gets during the cold. Imagine a steel door meeting a frozen polymer panel. Not a pretty picture if you ask me. Also, take into account the price of retrofitting a plant to make polymer panels for the Relay. GM would need plants SPECIFICALLY for Saturn, something which Chevy doesnt even have many of. I think that once the process gets perfected by the Aisian Market, Poly will once again come to Saturn, but at the moment, to many people, polymer is the sign of a cheap car. Ive had many a comment directed at my car such as "Dude, its a plastic car", or "How's the tupperware?" Once Saturn shows itself with some steel backing, these comments will be baseless and will show people the actual worth of a Saturn.

Granted, I am a fan of polymer, but if it means the difference between the life and death of Saturn, I'll take steel over a coffin any day of the year.

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Old 12-10-2004, 07:34 PM   #19
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Default Re: GM is Killing Saturn

Quote:
Originally Posted by ciscovip
Why do we have to take over the other? Why cannot there be two? Are they going to wait until the Japanese manufactures make a car with plastic body panels before they understand that they have a good thing. Or is GM management saying that there can only be two performance brands [Chevrolet and Pontiac] in there organization. The brand is about affordable well built cars. We see what mother GM has done with the ION. We went from a car that four wheel independent suspension four wheel disk to a modified beam rear suspension and drum brakes. I am off the opinion that we need to change out the GM management because they short sited and only understand V8s.
Four wheel disks were available for some time but only with the ABS models up untill like 99 for the S. V8s do a great job and there is no use in changing it becuase there reliable and do there jobs. Forced induction for smaller motors is a good thing you can get a good amount of power with good fuel economy. Is the Curve still going to be produced. I like that one better then the Sky because it has 4 seats. My fiancee likes the original sky she said it was cute.

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Old 12-10-2004, 08:49 PM   #20
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Default Re: GM is Killing Saturn

Quote:
Originally Posted by TBone1082
The reason Saturn is fazing out the polymer panels is due to the fact that they are to expensive to produce for anything larger than the Ion and the Vue. Lets face it also, once Spring Hill gets re-designed and the Ions start moving out of Detroit, (where they will be produced side by side with another GM vehicle {which I dont remember what}) It would be impossibly expensive to have polymer on one side of the plant and steel on the other. Secondly, polymer, contrary to popular belief is NOT Saturn, the Customer Service and No haggle No hassle pricing is. Also, imagine if you will a polymer panel the size of a Relay's door panel. Now, think of how hard polymer gets during the cold. Imagine a steel door meeting a frozen polymer panel. Not a pretty picture if you ask me. Also, take into account the price of retrofitting a plant to make polymer panels for the Relay. GM would need plants SPECIFICALLY for Saturn, something which Chevy doesnt even have many of. I think that once the process gets perfected by the Aisian Market, Poly will once again come to Saturn, but at the moment, to many people, polymer is the sign of a cheap car. Ive had many a comment directed at my car such as "Dude, its a plastic car", or "How's the tupperware?" Once Saturn shows itself with some steel backing, these comments will be baseless and will show people the actual worth of a Saturn.

Granted, I am a fan of polymer, but if it means the difference between the life and death of Saturn, I'll take steel over a coffin any day of the year.
Actually polymer has been on minivans...The Lumnia APV (which I own 2 of) and it's Olds and Pontiac counterparts all had polymer panels. Though these too faded out and went all steel. When you are in an all steel world of auto manufacturing, it is nearly impossible to warrent one plant to make 2 autos with polymers. Especially when the same plant with steel panel autos can make more makes than the one special model, and more important....it can make money for the corporation instead of costing it money.

All that can be hoped for is that GM thinks before it acts with the new models and that they do NOT let much of GM internal politics invade the decision process on who gets what funds for new models.

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