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Old 10-31-2004, 03:26 AM   #1
The Homer
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Default Saturn as Lexus? Motor Trend Editorial and comments (LONG!)

I'm not sure if anyone has already read this and beat me to the punch on this one, but I was out late yesterday, and came home to the December 2004 Motor Trend in the mail. Normally I skim through the articles (and this month's cover story was a plum about the new M5 vs. the E55), but after a long day out with the familiy, I sat down in the office and read the editorials first.

Lo and behold, Editor-in-Chief Angus MacKenzie wrote a piece entitled "Global Motors at Last" which discussed some of the recent past of GM, and gave some insight into the future of GM. right after a sub-section titled "Cadillac will become America's BMW" was a nifty section named "Saturn is the new Lexus."

It reads, as follows:

"You read that right. GM is working on a brand-new range of Saturns thath'll shatter every prejudice you might have about the deathly boring muesli-and-Birkenstock brand. 'Saturn was about the buying experience' says [GM Product Guru Bob] Lutz. 'The problem is the buying experience is only one day. What about the other 364?'

Lutz's solution involves four all-new Saturns that'll start rolling out late next year and into 2006, including a small roadster based on the Kappa platform that underpins Pontiac's Solstice, plus a dramatic five-door hatch to replace the Ion, a swoopy four-door sedan to replace the L-series, and a bigger SUV based on an all-new unibody platform called Lambda.

All four feature stunning styling and beautiful interiors: Trust me, you'll want one. Factor in the innovative retailing that's rightly made it famous, and Saturn has the potential to become GM's new entry-level premium brand - and a real threat to Lexus, Acura and Infiniti, not to mention Volkswagen and bottm-end BMWs and Audis."

Wow. I suppose it's one thing to announce all of this and another to actually execute it all, and while the General's trying to improve their product line, this strikes me as a bit much. If Lutz can successfully pull this off, more power to him. Saturn is already a very "different" car company now that it was when it originally launched, but trying to turn it into a Lexus-fighter may complete the change into something completely different than what was envisioned from its conception. Looks as though GM's head honchos are trying to leverage the excellent customer service reputation of Saturn and finally provide a full and balanced line of quality cars to sell at the retail locations (not that the current cars are terrible, they've just lost some of the spark the brand once had - see for example, the sales failure of the L-series).

But to have a line designed to be a premium brand sold at the friendliest car "dealers" in the USA would be great. The big problem I see is not just pulling off getting this lineup in place and delivered with few problems, but it will remain how it will fare against the brands named as targets in this article. Will people shopping Lexus, Acura and Infiniti look at a Saturn? And for that matter, those who want to buy BMW or Audi? VW makes a little more sense, as the S/Ion competes against the Jetta/Golf and the L-Series against the Passat, but will a potential 3-series/A4 or 5-series/A6 buyer look at a Saturn?

I'm not a snob when it comes to cars; I appreciate fine autos, and would buy a car regardless of brand if it had the features, durability/reliability and performance I was looking for - if it can be had for less, so much the better.

This new lineup arrives too late for me to get a new Saturn when I purchase my next car (December 2004/early 2005), but they may factor in when I purchase another car a few years from now. If they were rolling out the new lineup in early '05, I might try to make my trusty SW2 last awhile longer, but with nearly 180,000 miles on the clock, I feel it's time to move on soon.

But in a few years I'll be in the market for a roomy, premium (semi luxurious) sedan to go along with my daily driver. I've seen and been impressed by the early news on the 2006 Hyundai Sonata (amazing how far that company's come in a decade), and of course the current Accord/TSX would fit the bill, or even an older Lexus LS400 for its mythic reliability and hi-lux fits. The new Pontiac G6 is surprisingly good on paper, and so are the Saabs...but if Saturn can deliver a premium mid-size, I may keep one in the garage (a bit of brand loyalty seeping in, I admit).

So what are your thoughts? Assuming that this strategy is true, what do you think the future holds for Saturn?

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Old 10-31-2004, 04:30 AM   #2
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This sounds even more absurd than Saturn taking the place of Oldsmobile!

Saturn can't do a Lexus. Lexus was conceived as a new luxury brand and did not previously exist. Therefore Lexus was able to gain an upmarket image. Saturn already exists and has no upmarket image whatsoever! Saturn is known for its economy cars. you can't just take an economy brand give it an upmarket image. It is simply not possible!

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Old 10-31-2004, 05:03 AM   #3
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Yeah I cought that too, I'm not sure how to comment on it, kinda cought my by surprise. I read it twice, then just continued on with the rest of the magazine.

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Old 10-31-2004, 05:20 AM   #4
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I have to agree with EnglishSC2owner that you can't turn an economy car brand into a dedicated lux brand. To be successful in their plans they'll have to be everthing to everyone. Economy to luxury.

However if they gear it towards the import fighter brand it was always intended. A good combination of a very reliable car company with excellent customer sevice. Saturn could finally achieve what it set out to do be. But they'll have to encompass the full lineup from economy sedan to the high end mid-size luxury vehicles at a bargain price. GM can't let Saturn compete with their domestic cars from Pontiac, buick and Chevrolet, they have to target outside of north america. And with the rumours of Opel being the source of many Saturns to come, it gives them the chance to convincingly achieve thier import luxury goals. They just cant forget their roots!

The biggest stumbling block in the GM grand scheme of things is platform sharing. Lately they have offered exceptionally different product (In their car line up) on the same platforms, which is a good sign that they have put the last 30 years of horribly executed platform sharing to death. However in GM there seems to be a few instances where platform sharing hasn't evolved like it should have. The Minivans, Terrazza/ Relay/ Uplander & Montana.
The SUV's, Vue/ Equinox & Torrent. Lets hope Saturn doesn't get sucked into this mess any more after the Relay!

Let them be different GM, and Saturn just might succeed!

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Old 10-31-2004, 06:30 AM   #5
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Saturn is not going to be able to do the Oldsmobile thing much less a Lexus. It will take a lot more than TV ads and fancy interiors to remake a known brand of an economy car into a high end luxury car.No one but Infinity has been able to match Lexus reputation. Lincoln gave up and Caddy

is still trying.With GM putting all its chips in TV ads and marketing tricks Cadillac still has not matched Lexus service or quality.Lutz needs a vacation to get his thoughts together,the man is loosing it. I think GM is putting the final nails into Saturns coffin if they continue thinking this way. Return Saturn to its roots.A low priced quality car regular people can afford and enjoy.

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Old 10-31-2004, 09:17 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by EnglishSC2owner
Saturn can't do a Lexus. Lexus was conceived as a new luxury brand and did not previously exist. Therefore Lexus was able to gain an upmarket image.
Lexus (Infinity, Acura, et al) was concieved as a rebadged Toyota brand and was marketed as a new luxury brand to get around the import restrictions of the 80's and everyone knew it. Lexus has managed to move the product upscale over the last 25 years through hard work at continuing the reliability reputation of Toyota and adding content to the cars, and Saturn can do the same thing as long as Lutz and GM are in for the long haul (like 25 or 30 years), which I doubt, and are willing to actually invest in the "stuff" to move the brand upscale with reliable, quality drivetrains and interiors, which I also doubt, especially when considering the recent spat of "rebadges" we've seen from the General. All they're gonna do is rebage em and then tell us how they've moved em upscale.


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Old 10-31-2004, 09:39 AM   #7
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Ditto.

Saturn is having trouble even competing among the basic economy cars, how are they going to become Lexus? Cadillac is facing a long uphill battle to return to its former glory, and their cars are still loud, unpolished, and stylistically crude (remember Ford's New Edge program?).

If Lutz is thinking in VERY long term plans, though, he's right. Saturn should leave the bottom to Chevy and Pontiac and aspire to a more profitable market. Their first (approx) 15 years has established them to car buyers, now it's time to take those hard-earned lessons and make better cars.

Unfortunately, the General doesn't learn, so the plan doesn't work. Ditch the plastic, ditch the Saturnfans, and what do you have left? Saturn, a brand without an identity - like a certain other brand starting with an "O".

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Old 10-31-2004, 09:50 AM   #8
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look at what cadillac has done in three years, since the CTS came out in January 02. They've gone from all FWD, no performance grandpa sedans, to the RWD CTS and performance CTS-V; the RWD/AWD STS, soon to have a V variant; the SRX, which is said to be a better crossover then BMW's X5; and the XLR, which is super cool, even though it doesn't come in a manual. Everything about cadillac has changed in just under three years.

If Bob Lutz truely wants Saturn to become Lexus, then I think he can pull it off. He hasn't ever said that though, that was merely the idea of the new MT editor-in-chief. I, for one, wouldn't mind seeing it happen, as then I might be able to stay in saturns for a long time.

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Old 10-31-2004, 10:48 AM   #9
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I think the point is that Saturn won't become Lexus, it will become near-Lexus. I think a more reasonable (and possible) market shift would be a mirror of VW.

Changing Saturn's image would be very difficult. However, Saturns really aren't known as being "cheap," just "small." They've had a higher image. I have black leather, sunroof, traction control, and four airbags in my SC2. Saturn offered leather in the very beginning. They were a step nicer than the competition.

I agree something has to be done. And the direction makes sense. GM doesn't have anything to compete with VW.

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Old 10-31-2004, 11:44 AM   #10
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I believe with the correct marketing saturn could be Lexus. Look at Cadillac, 8 years ago you wouldn't have caught anyone 'cool' in a caddy, now every rapper, ball player, actor, singer etc has one. They turned your grandma's car into your grandson's car!

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Old 10-31-2004, 02:17 PM   #11
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Default Re: Saturn as Lexus? Motor Trend Editorial and comments (LONG!)

Quote:
Originally posted by The Homer
All four feature stunning styling and beautiful interiors: Trust me, you'll want one.
It's funny that this is the second journalist to use a very similar line refering to Saturns future offerings. Sounds like good things are on their way.

I also find it funny that an automotive editor owns a Saturn SW2. Who'd have thought anyone would subject themselves to that much bashing from their peers.

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Old 10-31-2004, 02:27 PM   #12
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I have a idea ,why doesnt GM just take the Saturn product and turn them into Oldsmobiles. They can use the rebadged malibu and call it a Cutless,the Impala and call it a 88, the VUE and call it the Bravdo, and use the ION as the Omega.They can turn all Saturn dealers into Oldmobile dealers and use Chevy dealers to to sell olds like they did before. In the end it will be a lot less painfull for this Saturn owner.

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Old 10-31-2004, 02:37 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by JasonwasatSaturn
I believe with the correct marketing saturn could be Lexus. Look at Cadillac, 8 years ago you wouldn't have caught anyone 'cool' in a caddy, now every rapper, ball player, actor, singer etc has one. They turned your grandma's car into your grandson's car!
Correct. The average age of a Cadillac owner has dropped significantly since the introduction of the CTS three years ago. I believe it is somewhere around the middle to upper forties.

As far as the report of a five-door hatch to replace the ION, that's news to me!


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Old 10-31-2004, 02:52 PM   #14
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Besides, my grandfather is driving a Honda Accord

I like the new Cadillacs, especially the XLR, but older people are still going to buy Mercedes, BMW, Jaguar, Lexus, etc.

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Old 10-31-2004, 06:42 PM   #15
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but a four door sedan to replace the L? i think they have some facts wrong.

spencerb, i was thinking of VW too after reading that article.

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Old 10-31-2004, 09:53 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by walt
I have a idea ,why doesnt GM just take the Saturn product and turn them into Oldsmobiles. They can use the rebadged malibu and call it a Cutless,the Impala and call it a 88, the VUE and call it the Bravdo, and use the ION as the Omega.They can turn all Saturn dealers into Oldmobile dealers and use Chevy dealers to to sell olds like they did before. In the end it will be a lot less painfull for this Saturn owner.
If the people at GM were as against change as you are we would have never had Saturn to begin with. Saturn needs something, as the sales are slumping, and this would spike sales, if done correctly. its sad to see you so adverse to change.

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Old 10-31-2004, 10:00 PM   #17
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I am glad to hear that Saturn is moving up market. Saturn is growing up along with their owners. Right now I own a VUE and I was thinking when I want to replace it, what Saturn would I get?

When I wanted to replace my SC2, I wanted something bigger and nicer, so the VUE was the obvious choice. But what Saturn is there that is nicer and bigger than the VUE.

To be honest with you, I would like to be able to buy Saturns for the rest of my life, and being only 20, I have a way to go.

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Old 10-31-2004, 11:28 PM   #18
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Some people might be in for a big surprise sooner than they expect. A few weeks ago I was listening on the radio to this auto journalist commenting about the next year Saturns; apparently he and a group of auto journalists were presented to the new line-up in an "early access" presentation like GM do every years... Well, he said what he saw was unbelievable coming from Saturn, the quality of build and the interior was a level above the competition. He really mentionned how average it is now but how high these models they presented were.

Now read this, this journalist in particular (Jacques Duval for those who cares) has never been a big fan of Saturn in my opinion and I only recall how many times he gave poor rating to the brand. So to have him say good thing about Saturn, now with this second article, who knows what is really going on for the next few years? Maybe the Lexus thing is for real...

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Old 11-01-2004, 12:50 AM   #19
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Default Re: Re: Saturn as Lexus? Motor Trend Editorial and comments (LONG!)

Quote:
Originally posted by BradJK
It's funny that this is the second journalist to use a very similar line refering to Saturns future offerings. Sounds like good things are on their way.

I also find it funny that an automotive editor owns a Saturn SW2. Who'd have thought anyone would subject themselves to that much bashing from their peers.
Heh. Sorry for any confusion that I may have caused - *I* own the SW2, not the E-I-C of Motor Trend. I'm guessing he has a much better choice of vehicles from which to choose (the entire fleet of MT's Long Term testers).

I'm still not entirely sold on the idea of Saturn becoming GM's entry-lux platform. Even if they took the best offerings they had available, made some brand-specific tweaks for Saturn, I don't know that they'd beat an equivalent Lexus.

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Old 11-01-2004, 05:56 AM   #20
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Theataris opposed to change yes, especially when I and so many other Saturnfans will find ourselves on the outside looking in at Saturn.I could never afford a car or truck priced as high as a Lexus.My current payments of $340.00 a month would slide to $629.00.If most of us could afford such payments would we even be on this web site.This is not the kind of news saturnfans should be excited about in my opnion.

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