SaturnFans.com
what's new (beta) - classifieds - forums - photos


Go Back   SaturnFans.com Forums > Categories > General Saturn Discussion
Register FAQ Members List Groups Calendar Chat Room Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-12-2000, 10:47 AM   #1
cityhawk
Master Member
cityhawk is a name known to allcityhawk is a name known to allcityhawk is a name known to allcityhawk is a name known to allcityhawk is a name known to allcityhawk is a name known to all
 
cityhawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,758
 

1993 SW2
2001 L-Series 3.0L Wagon
Default Saturn-UAW contract, Wilmington vs. Spring Hill

Hello Saturnfans. This is addressed as much to any Saturn team members who lurk here as well as the rest of us consumers. I'm sorry if this has been discussed before, but I couldn't find a thread when doing a search.

When I bought my first Saturn nearly two years ago, one of the things that led me in the Saturn direction was the enlightened arrangement that Saturn had with the UAW. It made them seem less like the evil-empire that the rest of GM (and a lot of the auto industry in general) seemed to be.

I was reading the brochure for 1999, and there was a lot of talk about the team members, the UAW contract, the things that Saturn had done to restore a particular fish species to the river near the plant... all those things that made me feel good about buying a Saturn. The things that make Saturn truly a "different kind of car company."

Now that I've confirmed my order of an L-Series car, built in Wilmington, I feel somewhat less warm and fuzzy about it. Other than the fact that I like the car and still feel good about supporting Saturn, I'd like to see the disparity in UAW contracts addressed somehow. Like, maybe the UAW contract is different in Wilmington because the union wanted it that way, and that the "decision rings" and general team philosophy prevails in spite of the different contract.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to cityhawk's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help cityhawk reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
cityhawk is offline  
SaturnFans.com Sponsored Links
Old 09-12-2000, 01:41 PM   #2
saturnnut
Member
saturnnut is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 193
Default

I have to second that, I am in full support of Saturn continuing to strenthen their UAW Workers by use of team work, and positive reinforcement. When I leased my first Saturn in 1998, they had incentives back then to acheive certain product goals, now those incentives are no where to be found and new Saturn's are no longer on JD Power's overall quality survey, gee any conection I wonder.

The contract was changed to one less favorable for consumers to be more favorable for workers in terms of money. For years, when Saturn sales slipped the workers didn't gain bonuses, etc. Now, they get paid regardless of how horrible Saturn's sell , therefore have few reasons to produce the kind of quality they used to. Does Saturn still make a decent car, imo Yes. But , they are not what they used to be.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to saturnnut's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help saturnnut reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
saturnnut is offline  
Old 09-14-2000, 10:02 PM   #3
LDB_2001SC2_#54of99
Member
LDB_2001SC2_#54of99 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 140
Default Saturn-UAW contract, generally unions suck

Unions, the friendly term for mobs. Unions have done many good things in the past however they have done many bad things also. Mobs have perpetrated horrible violence and used blackmail to get their way. I am in no way saying many of the things demanded were not the right thing however change should not cost lives and livelihoods to the degree they have. A salary of $42 per hour to sit on a stool and run a stopwatch and a tally counter is outrageous. Mobs are pricing American made products out of the marketplace and eliminating jobs by the thousands. Saturn's original agreements were fair to all concerned and rewarded team spirit and good performance. Workers should never be enslaved, abused, or exploited but neither should they do those things in mob fashion to employers.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to LDB_2001SC2_#54of99's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help LDB_2001SC2_#54of99 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
LDB_2001SC2_#54of99 is offline  
Old 09-15-2000, 06:50 AM   #4
John10
Master Member
John10 will become famous soon enoughJohn10 will become famous soon enough
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 3,490
 

2006 ION-3 Sedan
2009 VUE 2.4L
Default

I too suppported the original Saturn labor/management arrangement and it was one of the main reasons that I first became interested in Saturn. That said I think some of the discussions linking product quality to type of labor agreement are over simplified. If you visit the Saturn plants or any other major manufacturing facility it becomes obvious that a good portion of the assembly process is done by automated machinery controlled by computers. If a union man or woman misprogrammed a computer or set the tolerances wrong on a robatic arm you certainly will end up with a quality problem. I doubt however that such a thing often happens as a result of union activity regardless of the contract. In areas of auto manufacturing that remain labor intensive I believe that worker pride and attitude still have a lot to do with quality. I believe that the original Saturn team concept was aimed exactly at this. I am reluctant however to cast stones at any group of workers over these matters unless I am personally familiar with their issues and opinions. The few Wilmington workers that I have spoken to don't outwardly appear different in attitude than the Spring Hill people I have met. Unless I directly hear of or read reliable articles that indicate otherwise, I am reluctant to jump to conclusions.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to John10's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help John10 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
John10 is offline  
Old 09-15-2000, 11:22 AM   #5
cityhawk
Master Member
cityhawk is a name known to allcityhawk is a name known to allcityhawk is a name known to allcityhawk is a name known to allcityhawk is a name known to allcityhawk is a name known to all
 
cityhawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,758
 

1993 SW2
2001 L-Series 3.0L Wagon
Default

Thanks John5. BTW, for those interested in this, I found this while surfing the new saturn.com site:

http://www.saturnuaw.com/

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to cityhawk's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help cityhawk reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
cityhawk is offline  
Old 09-15-2000, 02:43 PM   #6
BobC
Member
BobC is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 274
Default

Saturn has made a big thing out of homecomings, plant tours, etc. Those activities would provide Saturn owners with an opportunity to judge the all-important "attitude" of the assembly line workers. When I worked in the wonderful world of management training and consulting, I found that I could sense the attitude of any given work force by simply asking a few questions. In fact you really didn't have to do any more than carefully watch what was going on. The attitude of a work force seems to float through the air.

I understand there are no plant tours at Wilmington. There may be a perfectly simple reson for that, but it may be that management would rather not have Saturn owners talking to workers with a typical "You can't touch me, I'm part of the union" attitude.

One thing is certain. All Saturn owners should be happy that their automobiles are not produced by Buzz Hargrove's Canadian Autoworkers Union members. You're really talking about a "mob" when you'r talking about Buzz and the Boys (and girls too)!

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to BobC's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help BobC reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
BobC is offline  
Old 03-16-2005, 11:34 AM   #7
Stephenjaye
Junior Member
Stephenjaye is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 33
Default Re: Saturn-UAW contract, Wilmington vs. Spring Hill

As one who watched Roger Smith drive the first Saturn through "Inspiration Point", I'd like to offer up my take on the demise of the "Saturn Philosophy"

In a small way, we were a victim of our own success. Those first couple years' cars were built with two crews with a third planned as the plant ramped up to it's 700 cars/shift line speed. Not many folks know that Saturn team members actually did the interview process and made hire/don't hire decisions. Talk about empowerment!

All of a sudden it was deemed to fill out the third shift in hopes of increasing the line speed and productivity- we had all made the decision to work six 10-hour days to satisfy demand for the vehicle, and the hope was to reduce overtime and keep building quality vehicles. The A and B crews were of the opinion that all qualified candidates from the hiring pool of laid-off UAW workers from around the country had been selected, and that Saturn should look to hiring local residents to fill the vacancies- great PR, by the way. Shot down by the UAW, of course, and we were directed to REVISIT the applications that were originally rejected... lowering of the bar part one.

Well, the first group of hires were from the shut-down (I wonder why) Doraville, GA assembly plant, and the "Tear down the factory before I'll change MY hard-won work rules" folks in Wilmington, DE. No way these "auto-building" experts were going to buy into Saturn's philosophy... It took exactly two weeks before the first TV antenna was put up on the roof above the maintenance team center; some of us jokingly referred to that team center as the "South Lounge"... lower the bar part two.

Next, we have the strike at the GM Flint die shop plant in the late 90s. Not many folks know of the maintenance walk-out that occurred at Saturn during the two-week model changeover during this time. UAW maintenance workers had fought against outsourcing work during the twice-yearly shutdowns to the point where EVERY possible outsourcing contract be approved by the maintenance membership before being let out to an outside contractor. When it came time to do the shutdown work that summer, the UAW membership showed where their loyalty was placed by not showing up on the job.

Not long afterwards, a work rule was enacted that prevented the 15 hr./day, 7-day workweeks that were the norm for skilled tradesmen- and you didn't even have to punch a clock to verify your presence in the plant. Hours were cut back to a measly 12 hours a day... geesh, how's a person to survive? Put a hit on a UAW member's wallet and they hit back. The line speed was eventually lowered to 630/shift as equipment regularly broke down, and the repair workforce moved further and further from preventive to reactive maintenance. "Fix it on the weekend- on overtime". Lowering the bar part three

Lastly, those denizens of closed GM plants started with the leaflet passing, hardball rhetoric (we'll show 'em) and sooned ascended into Local 1853's leadership. The resultant strike vote was probably most damaging to Saturn than all of the above- can't tell ya' how many times I was asked to explain to John Q. Public why workers with a cooperative stake in the company would want to go on strike- after all, when sales got slow the corporation kept its word and did not lay off employee-one. Couldn't give them an honest answer.

IMO, that was when the "bar" was melted down into sheet metal to produce another so-so GM vehicle. I just recently found this forum and so I'm not familiar with all the conversations here, but I did read one that lamented the public not buying into the Saturn concept. Nothing could be further from the truth. As long as car buying America felt that the workers were doing all they could to build a world-class car they were willing to overlook build issues. No need to tout Saturn Corporation's commitment to the team concept; this was a bottom driven enterprise from day one and I saw many $MILLIONS spent to give the experiment every chance to succeed. I never understood all the whining from those who had the power to change things for the better- the workforce... but didn't. I understand that now "Saturns" are being built in that same Doraville plant. I'd say it was appropriate.

Y'all can post or PM me for the skinny on the good and bad from those bygone years.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Stephenjaye's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Stephenjaye reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Stephenjaye is offline  
Old 03-16-2005, 05:32 PM   #8
spork
Senior Member
spork is on a distinguished road
 
spork's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Iowa
Posts: 1,376
 

2000 L-Series 2.2L Sedan
Default Re: Saturn-UAW contract, Wilmington vs. Spring Hill

Very interesting and very disconcerting. Though I would like to add that if you were working employees 15 hr days 7 days a week you are going to produce garbage. Have you seen the ad for Universal Studios where the funeral directors are thanking you for your hard work?

BTW, I bought a first model year L, and had more than my fair share of build quality issues.

...
"Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos"

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to spork's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help spork reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
spork is offline  
Old 03-17-2005, 11:22 AM   #9
Stephenjaye
Junior Member
Stephenjaye is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 33
Default Re: Saturn-UAW contract, Wilmington vs. Spring Hill

Quote:
Originally Posted by spork
Very interesting and very disconcerting. Though I would like to add that if you were working employees 15 hr days 7 days a week you are going to produce garbage. <snip>
I agree. Please note that Saturn was not "working" these employees, they were fighting for the right to remain so" well employed". The 15/7 was only for maintenance workers, and it was an UPPER LIMIT imposed upon those who would want even more factory time...

It wasn't so much producing garbage as it was not getting enough cars out the back door because of nagging breakdowns forcing a reduced line speed. Many of my fellow co-workers chose to 'chase' or ignore the small problems everyday rather than fix 'em right- thus ensuring weekend work. So what if your op-techs had to work around problems every day- skilled trades wanted to break off from 1853 and form their own union based on THEIR individual needs, anyway. That's how it was done in the "old world".

LOTS of good folks got hurt because of a few malcontents and hardcore traditional UAW activists, but those good folks are not without culpability for the "vision's" failure. "All it takes for for bad men to triumph is for good men to do nothing". Forget who said this but truer words were never spoken.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Stephenjaye's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Stephenjaye reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Stephenjaye is offline  
Old 03-17-2005, 11:56 AM   #10
VTHokie00SL2
Master Member
VTHokie00SL2 will become famous soon enoughVTHokie00SL2 will become famous soon enough
 
VTHokie00SL2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 4,060
 
Default Re: Saturn-UAW contract, Wilmington vs. Spring Hill

Interesting! Not surprising, though...

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to VTHokie00SL2's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help VTHokie00SL2 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
VTHokie00SL2 is offline  
Old 03-17-2005, 03:35 PM   #11
spork
Senior Member
spork is on a distinguished road
 
spork's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Iowa
Posts: 1,376
 

2000 L-Series 2.2L Sedan
Default Re: Saturn-UAW contract, Wilmington vs. Spring Hill

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephenjaye
So what if your op-techs had to work around problems every day- skilled trades wanted to break off from 1853 and form their own union based on THEIR individual needs, anyway. That's how it was done in the "old world".
Yer speakin' Chinese to me there. Do you mean that the skilled trades guys were the ones that repaired the equipment and that they did a half-assed job to ensure a big paycheck due to more overtime? And because of the half-assed job, the line ran poorly and quality suffered?

...
"Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos"

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to spork's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help spork reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
spork is offline  
Old 03-17-2005, 06:23 PM   #12
John10
Master Member
John10 will become famous soon enoughJohn10 will become famous soon enough
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 3,490
 

2006 ION-3 Sedan
2009 VUE 2.4L
Question Re: Saturn-UAW contract, Wilmington vs. Spring Hill

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephenjaye
LOTS of good folks got hurt because of a few malcontents and hardcore traditional UAW activists, but those good folks are not without culpability for the "vision's" failure. "All it takes for for bad men to triumph is for good men to do nothing". Forget who said this but truer words were never spoken.
Interesting story but I have to ask you how a "few malcontents and hardcore activists" got so much power and influence if the system really was a democratic bottoms up operation and everyone was so happy? I understand how sometimes good men do nothing but on the otherhand I've never seen any workplace where there are no vocal leaders willing to speak up. You seem pretty articulate and have a strong opinion for example. What happened that not enough people fought for the original system? Were they really as content with it as you appear to have been?

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to John10's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help John10 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
John10 is offline  
Old 03-18-2005, 10:13 AM   #13
Stephenjaye
Junior Member
Stephenjaye is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 33
Default Re: Saturn-UAW contract, Wilmington vs. Spring Hill

Quote:
Originally Posted by spork
Yer speakin' Chinese to me there. Do you mean that the skilled trades guys were the ones that repaired the equipment and that they did a half-assed job to ensure a big paycheck due to more overtime? And because of the half-assed job, the line ran poorly and quality suffered?
That's exactly what I'm suggesting, spork.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Stephenjaye's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Stephenjaye reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Stephenjaye is offline  
Old 03-18-2005, 11:34 AM   #14
Stephenjaye
Junior Member
Stephenjaye is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 33
Default Re: Saturn-UAW contract, Wilmington vs. Spring Hill

Quote:
Originally Posted by John9
Interesting story but I have to ask you how a "few malcontents and hardcore activists" got so much power and influence if the system really was a democratic bottoms up operation and everyone was so happy? I understand how sometimes good men do nothing but on the otherhand I've never seen any workplace where there are no vocal leaders willing to speak up. You seem pretty articulate and have a strong opinion for example. What happened that not enough people fought for the original system? Were they really as content with it as you appear to have been?
Having worked in non-union shops before joining GM the "Memo" made perfectly good business sense to me. I wouldn't say all others were "content", as the consensus decision-making process is much harder than having someone else make a decision for you, but they accepted the inevitable and proactively chose to make the best of it. There were folks like moi who fought for the "Vision" and felt the need to speak up, John9, but unpleasant things happen when one strays too far from the culture- some might call it baggage- of the traditional UAW contract. Tires flattened, cars keyed, toolboxes filled with oil or the lock superglued. Use your imagination.

As to how a few got the power, can you spell "Politics"? When you understand how the UAW is as much a social movement as it is a labor organization you'll begin to see the overall picture. Violating either of the two mantras- "Don't admit to anything"; "Don't give anything back" - left you permanently at odds with the hardcore element.and pegged as a "union buster" forever. This gives rise to the familiar table-pounding "leaders" whilst the majority falls silent rather than become a target of retribution.

I know this all sounds incredible, and I offer up both my apologies and some slight sympathy for those who are still working at Saturn and know of what I speak. Unfortunately, with the return to the UAW national contract their voices have effectively been silenced. I just hope that they go on to build great vehicles for Y'all to buy. I'm going to bow out of this public thread now, no sense washing any more dirty laundry in view of the buying public when it's all history anyway. BTW, the above labor scenario is not limited to GM.

Y'all are still welcome to PM.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Stephenjaye's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Stephenjaye reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Stephenjaye is offline  
Old 03-18-2005, 11:38 AM   #15
VTHokie00SL2
Master Member
VTHokie00SL2 will become famous soon enoughVTHokie00SL2 will become famous soon enough
 
VTHokie00SL2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 4,060
 
Default Re: Saturn-UAW contract, Wilmington vs. Spring Hill

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephenjaye
... but unpleasant things happen when one strays too far from the culture- some might call it baggage- of the traditional UAW contract. Tires flattened, cars keyed, toolboxes filled with oil or the lock superglued. Use your imagination.
That sucks dude! Gee, that's real professional, and it's good to see that people have strong moral values! That's the kind of thing that makes me glad to see union workers thrown out on their ass and sent to the unemployment line!

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to VTHokie00SL2's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help VTHokie00SL2 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
VTHokie00SL2 is offline  
Old 06-10-2005, 02:28 AM   #16
tbojbob
Junior Member
tbojbob is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Spring Hill, TN
Posts: 18

2003 ION-3 Quad Coupe
Default Re: Saturn-UAW contract, Wilmington vs. Spring Hill

I've not visited this site as often as I should've obviously....... Stephenjaye's comments need to be taken ONLY as one disgruntled ex-employees parting shot. Steve, I too was there at the "drive-off", and watched it driven to audit from a drive platform above! Don't you think these cheap shots are pretty unfair to the majority of us that came BEFORE you and are still here! You stereotype all of us union workers here in General Motors Spring Hill Assembly (Saturn, Spring Hill) as belligerent and lazy. To all (other than SJ) that read this do honestly believe that this plant would still be occupied if it was as bad as SJ paints it? Again, his comments are from a p!$$ed off former employee! Have any of ya'll seen the video "Spring In Spring Hill", well contrary to some very subjective opinions, ahem, that work ethic can still be found down here no matter what they call us or what we build! And one last time, Steve we all don't deserve to be slandered like that!

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to tbojbob's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help tbojbob reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
tbojbob is offline  
Old 06-10-2005, 02:45 AM   #17
Dimundave911
Member
Dimundave911 is on a distinguished road
 
Dimundave911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Glenolden Pa.
Posts: 479
 

2002 SC2
1998 SC1
Default Re: Saturn-UAW contract, Wilmington vs. Spring Hill

I'm surprised this thread lives on after 5 years! Personally from all that I have read and heard I believe Spring Hill is a great facility or "family" as I have heard it described as. Of course every crowd has people on different pages that don't agree and often portrayed as bad apples.
I wonder if Stephenjaye has email notification - he might come back - more arguments

...
Dave

2002 SC2

"Did you ever Dance with the devil in the pale moonlight?"

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Dimundave911's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Dimundave911 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Dimundave911 is offline  
Old 06-10-2005, 08:47 AM   #18
Citation84
Master Member
Citation84 has a spectacular aura aboutCitation84 has a spectacular aura about
 
Citation84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Tucson AZ
Posts: 2,967
 

2005 ION-1 Sedan
Default Re: Saturn-UAW contract, Wilmington vs. Spring Hill

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbojbob
I've not visited this site as often as I should've obviously....... Stephenjaye's comments need to be taken ONLY as one disgruntled ex-employees parting shot. Steve, I too was there at the "drive-off", and watched it driven to audit from a drive platform above! Don't you think these cheap shots are pretty unfair to the majority of us that came BEFORE you and are still here! You stereotype all of us union workers here in General Motors Spring Hill Assembly (Saturn, Spring Hill) as belligerent and lazy. To all (other than SJ) that read this do honestly believe that this plant would still be occupied if it was as bad as SJ paints it? Again, his comments are from a p!$$ed off former employee! Have any of ya'll seen the video "Spring In Spring Hill", well contrary to some very subjective opinions, ahem, that work ethic can still be found down here no matter what they call us or what we build! And one last time, Steve we all don't deserve to be slandered like that!
Is that video still available? I saw it on TV years ago around the time of the Saturn launch.Never knew the name of it.
With all due respect, those negative aspects of union strong arm tactics have been around for longer than Saturn has been in existence. Stories were common of sabotage on the line and especially so during the Lordstown launch of the Vega. At that time as probably now, there seems to be plenty of blame to go around for this contract to have been abandoned.
I doubt he was referring to workers like yourself, Tbojbob. I think my 05 ION [made under the old contract]is built just fine.
Sounds like StephenJaye is a disgruntled union member who is willing to tell the truth.

Last edited by Citation84; 06-10-2005 at 08:54 AM..

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Citation84's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Citation84 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Citation84 is offline  
Old 06-10-2005, 09:35 AM   #19
Citation84
Master Member
Citation84 has a spectacular aura aboutCitation84 has a spectacular aura about
 
Citation84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Tucson AZ
Posts: 2,967
 

2005 ION-1 Sedan
Default Re: Saturn-UAW contract, Wilmington vs. Spring Hill

Stephenjaye: much of this was written about in "In The Rings Of Saturn" which chronicled the early years of the Saturn Corp. so I believe fully in what you say. To dismiss you as a "disgruntled employee" is to attempt to get around the truth of what you said by starting a "You're a .... " "Am not." school yard argument.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Citation84's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Citation84 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Citation84 is offline  
Old 06-10-2005, 09:51 PM   #20
tbojbob
Junior Member
tbojbob is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Spring Hill, TN
Posts: 18

2003 ION-3 Quad Coupe
Default Re: Saturn-UAW contract, Wilmington vs. Spring Hill

[QUOTE=Citation84]Stephenjaye: much of this was written about in "In The Rings Of Saturn" which chronicled the early years of the Saturn Corp. so I believe fully in what you say. To dismiss you as a "disgruntled employee" is to attempt to get around the truth of what you said by starting a "You're a .... " "Am not." school yard argument.[/QUOTE

Wow Citation84, you believe FULLY in what Steve is saying? Good job Steve, you need to consider a career in politics! Unfortunately people believe what they want to believe. Let me assure you the VAST majority of the current 3500+ workforce are NOT as Steve describes!

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to tbojbob's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help tbojbob reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
tbojbob is offline  
Closed Thread



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
UAW Worries About GM Plant in Spring Hill Charlie General Saturn Discussion 12 04-08-2009 09:20 PM
My trip to Spring Hill and the Saturn plant SaturnManiac General Saturn Discussion 11 11-19-2006 01:05 AM
Lets Keep a Saturn @ Spring Hill! SW2Muck Aura General 22 03-28-2005 09:05 AM
Spring Hill UAW Vote AH-HA General Saturn Discussion 27 06-29-2004 08:37 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:28 AM.

Advanced Forum Search | Advanced Photo Search


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SaturnFans.com. The Saturn Enthusiasts Site.