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Old 04-13-2004, 02:33 PM   #1
freeheel
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Default My 03 AWD VTi goes into Service tomorrow...again...help?

Ok Saturnfans,
Here is my call for help. My '03 AWD VTi is going into the Service Department tomorrow for repeated VTi issues. My current tranny (the Vue's 2nd) is making serious whining/grinding/scraping noises on acceleration. (1st tranny went 7000 miles. This tranny is pushing 8000 miles)

I'm now into building a case against Saturn to pressure them to fix everything or make the situation right (buy-back, Lemon Law, etc).

I'm looking for any and all info people in similar situations have. Specifically, I'm looking for copies of work done (to see what other service departments are doing), service department reports/service invoices, TSBs that are relevant, etc.

I want to bring all the info with me to make myself clear with my concerns. I'm also meeting with the dealership General Manager while my Vue goes in. Any and all help is appreciated. Hopefully I can begin this process for all of us with VTi concerns.

Thanks

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Old 04-13-2004, 02:43 PM   #2
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They know well the problems with the VTI. They will fix it of course under warranty and since the warranty has been extended to 5/75 you probably won't get anymore than that out of them. My suggestion to you is to swap it in like some of us have done for the 04 5 speed and cut your losses.

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Old 04-13-2004, 03:27 PM   #3
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I'm not at the point of cutting my losses yet...if not because of the financial cost, because of the principle of the issue. Saturn produced a flawed vehicle. They will rectify the problem.

I am well aware of the extended warranty. However, Lemon Laws exist for this reason. I refuse to allow them to force me to buy another vehicle that a) will hit me financially b) not have AWD and c) possibly have other issues pop up. No, Saturn has to deal with me as a consumer.

Therefore, while I respect the advice to give in, and I know that some Saturnfans have the opportunity to buy again or trade Uup" (or "down"), I refuse to do that. Saturn has a battle on their hands with me. So, I'm looking for any documentation that others have received or used to help them to plead their case (if not in "fixing" their issues, perhaps in getting some attention), or service write ups with descriptions of work performed. Thanks,

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Old 04-13-2004, 03:45 PM   #4
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I don't know about anybody else here but a long fight and hassle just isn't worth it to me. You can have them rectify the problem and then in six months if it goes again you're back in the middle of it. For me I'm enjoying my new vehicle and moving on. Stuff happens. Maybe you can do the lemon law route but I've heard that is very difficult to enforce. Good luck with whatever you decide.

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Old 04-13-2004, 06:30 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by freeheel

Therefore, while I respect the advice to give in, and I know that some Saturnfans have the opportunity to buy again or trade Uup" (or "down"), I refuse to do that. Saturn has a battle on their hands with me. So, I'm looking for any documentation that others have received or used to help them to plead their case (if not in "fixing" their issues, perhaps in getting some attention), or service write ups with descriptions of work performed. Thanks, [/B]
Technical issues..... a number of these may well be relevant to your case.

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...threadid=32935

GM also made two mechanical changes to the 2004 VTi, and whether or not you think these are sufficient to solve your problem is for you to decide.

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...threadid=32984

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Old 04-13-2004, 06:39 PM   #6
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Freeheel, our VUE was fixed the first time it went in for the grinding noise. I will post the details of the service work when I get home.

But again, here is another example of someone picking up their car when there is still a problem. I just dont understand why people drive away with their cars that were in the shop with the grinding problem, when its so obvious if its been fixed or not.

What happened the first two times you took it in? Did you ride along with a tech to let them hear the grinding noise?

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Old 04-13-2004, 10:33 PM   #7
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I'm going to pick up my car tomorrow. Got off the phone with the manager not too long ago and he actually said everything was fine and that the grinding sounds are normal. They opened up my transmission and everything looked great. They did a program re-calibration and changed the oil. I will not accept the noise as being normal. I'll have to see if he is talking about the same noise once I go pick up my car. If it is, I'll have to ask why was a "kit" changed last summer to stop that noise, only for it to re-appear 5 months later, and why did the techs say,"man, that does not sound too good" when they came for a little spin with me last week???? I can't wait for tomorrow!

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Old 04-13-2004, 10:50 PM   #8
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Tominsky,
"Grinding is normal"
"You do not need to replace these components"
Did they find your oil to be a little on the dark side?

Complain you must.... May the force be with you

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Old 04-14-2004, 09:10 AM   #9
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Tominsky,
Why don't you call Saturn customer service and tell them you want to meet with the regional service rep. and the dealer service manager.
I did.We discussed the different issues concerning my Vue's tranny and rear diff.It did not solve all the problems but it did help a lot.

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Old 04-14-2004, 10:25 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by tominsky
I'm going to pick up my car tomorrow. Got off the phone with the manager not too long ago and he actually said everything was fine and that the grinding sounds are normal. They opened up my transmission and everything looked great. They did a program re-calibration and changed the oil. I will not accept the noise as being normal. I'll have to see if he is talking about the same noise once I go pick up my car. If it is, I'll have to ask why was a "kit" changed last summer to stop that noise, only for it to re-appear 5 months later, and why did the techs say,"man, that does not sound too good" when they came for a little spin with me last week???? I can't wait for tomorrow!
The program recal and putting the additive in dosent do *****. My service did the same thing, BUT told me the grinding noise was still there and that they were going on to the next step which was to replace a bunch of parts.

Damnit, I forgot to post the service report last night. I'll try to post it tonight...

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Old 04-14-2004, 01:36 PM   #11
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Good news!! I wrote an e-mail this morning to some "key" Gm/Saturn people in my area stating that I will not accept my car back if it still grinds. Just heard back and they have just ordered a new 2004 tranny for me. It will be installed on Monday. Let's hope thay have really figured out the problems with this one.

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Old 04-14-2004, 06:54 PM   #12
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So, here's an update and a response to those questions/comments posed earlier.

1) I brought my Vue in today. I heard back from them that they needed another day to "run more tests" and perform "further diagnostics." I'll call them tomorrow morning.
2) I also met with a member of the dealership management team. He heard my complaints and promised to discuss it with other dealer management today. He agreed that since my Vue has been in so many times already AND that I've already had a new transmission installed 6 months ago, I should be in line for Lemon Law litigation or some other solution, including the possibility of "Buy-back."
3) To answer another posting: I never left the service department with problems still apparent. In all cases, the problems were "solved" only to "reappear" later. That is why I've kept detailed records and lists of problems. I anticipate a long negotiation period with the dealership and Saturn Corp.
4) I plan on demanding a meeting with the regional service rep if things start to feel as though they are slipping away from me. However, I am encouraged by the process that started today.

I'll keep everyone posted.

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Old 04-15-2004, 01:16 PM   #13
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Well, I just spoke to both the service department and the dealer management. Service is still "diagnosing" the Vue and wouldn't have an answer until later this afternoon. Management stated that they were initiating the process to pull all service records so that I could establish ANOTHER CAC case following the guidelines according to CA Lemon Law.

It looks like I am headed toward Lemon Law arbitration...stay tuned...

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Old 04-15-2004, 06:59 PM   #14
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Got the Vue back today. Not good news for me. Service told me that the transmission buzz/whine is "normal" however they added the DEX CVT additive (2 syringes worth) "just in case". They also performed the latest VTi software upgrade saying that the recalibration would help any "troubles."

I'm not happy at all. This transmission has almost gotten me killed twice and I'm filing with the BB tomorrow.

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Old 04-15-2004, 07:17 PM   #15
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It is interesting to note that if the weird sounds are normal that dealers have attempted fixes for a number of people with these problems. If it is not a problem, no attempt to remedy the problem should have been made. DEX CVT will only serve to muffle the sounds for a short while, but they come back quickly enough. PM

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Old 04-15-2004, 10:05 PM   #16
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next thing you know they'll be adding wood shavings in the transmission to muffle out the grinding sounds!

I really don't think they know what is going on. I'm in the same boat as freeheel. My dealer told me everything was great after the recalibration and additive and that the noise was still present but it was normal. I told them I was not accepting my car back untill the noise was gone and all of a sudden a new tranny is on order. Won't be in until Monday but the manager is still insisting that the grinding is normal. If it's normal, why the new tranny? I'm not complaining. I'm just a little confused.

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Old 04-15-2004, 11:31 PM   #17
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To the best of my knowledge, no clear explanation has ever been provided by Saturn as to why the grinding is normal. At a BBB arbitration, a vehicle would be inspected by an independent party, not by Saturn or yourself. Grinding noises will be heard for your dodgy transmission, which would lead to questioning aboutits origin. Significant research has been posted to these forums elsewhere (something like unreslved issues and unanswered questions about the VTi transmission) that could be used to put forward valid technical arguments as to why the grinding is not normal. It would be interesting to learn what the arguments would be to technically defend the grinding.

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Old 04-16-2004, 07:21 AM   #18
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Had simular problems like many vti owners . After a case replacement at 12K all grinding or whinning sounds disapeared. VUE has 20K and vti has been flawless so far. Now with75K warranty I feel mentally at ease.I would not trade up till I get near the 75 K.You usally take a beating trading in to early. I will purschase the V6 with conventional tranny in about 5 years.Any vti problems till than will be saturns problems not mine. There the ones paying the bills.

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Old 04-16-2004, 08:56 AM   #19
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I agree with Walt, I just hate to waste my time dealing with the service center. Not that I had to yet, 600 miles and counting on my 2004 VUE/VTi.

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